What if Badgerys Creek goes ahead?

[Victa Bravo]

What happens to Bankstown's training area, and Camden's CTA?

VB

[aroa]

That hoary old chestnut....yet again.!!!!!

Preliminary studies were done covering that area 30 years ago.
See anything on Google Earth yet ???

By the time this comes around again we will all have Anti-Gravity Belts and go where we want, when we want.
Politicians know this, thats why they wont make a decision :ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Or.....
The Minister's High Speed Rail will make aeroplanes 'superfluous' for the 'shorter' journeys...thus SY will be less busy.....

But - not in my lifetime Oi rekkon...
:}

[PLovett]

In the meantime the business and financial industries that call Sydney home will start looking to Melbourne because of the chaos that will be Mascot and of trying to fly in and out of that compromised paddock unless something is done and soon about relieving the pressure.

As the business hub moves out, property prices will fall generating panic in the market as so much was borrowed on the expectation that it was secured against an ever-rising property market.

Politicians - pah! A long-term view for them is next week.

[Rusty1970]

Leaving aside the "It'll never happen" comments, the most recent report is here:

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/aviation/sydney_av_cap/files/sac_part_eight_options_develop_new_infrastructure.pdf

Depends on what they build. Camden goes. "severely impact" training area.

It'll likely be up to Mr Abbott after September. Hockey and Turnbull are on the record as wanting it. Abbott himself has been coy about it.

[thorn bird]

"....the chaos that will be Mascot and of trying to fly in and out of that compromised paddock....."

PL what do you mean will??

[Ascend Charlie]

Back in the early 90s I flew a Feral Garment Minister to the site, where, in front of gathered TV and press cameras, the sod turned the first sod with a silver spade. A sign was unveiled, everybody packed up, we flew back to Mascot, and the pollies pulled their puds for a while in joy.

Then the cobwebs and mould covered the sign, it was pulled down, the Garment sold off the land at a loss (surprise, surprise) and people built more houses over the proposed runway.

it will never happen.:(

[PLovett]

PL what do you mean will??

Good point. Its a dog's breakfast now and will not get any better. :sad:

[Tinstaafl]

Plenty of room for a decent airport in Sydney. Fill in Botany Bay and land on that.

[LewC]

Chuck the Army off Holsworthy (some 18,000 ha.) and there's enough room for half a dozen airports.

[SeldomFixit]

And enough unexploded ordnance to keep the Civil Contractors treading gingerly :\

[LewC]

Holsworthy was one of the locations that was looked in the '90's.The Army resisted ferociously any intrusion on their playground.One of the arguments they threw up was that the entire area was virtually an Aboriginal Sacred Site,something that obviously hadn't concerned them for the 60 odd years that they'd been bombing the crap out of the Sacred Sites with exploding ordnance and ordnance which didn't manage to go bang. German cities,after WW11,were littered with unexploded ordnance most of which was a lot larger than anything ever seen at Holsworthy yet somehow those crafty Germans managed to clear the cities and carry on building.

[4Greens]

No need for any more speculation. Badgery's Creek will be built at exactly the same time as London's second airport.

[Oktas8]

London's second airport

Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted, umm, that one that was closed thirty years ago, umm, and that other one that was closed, you know the one... Oh and apparently Oxford is now "London Oxford", whaddaya know.



(Just yanking your chain a little 4greens, don't worry about it!)

[Scion]

When McQuarie Bank initially took over Mascot wasn't there in the contract some stupid amount of "compensation" to be paid to them if another civil airport was to be built in the Sydney basin?

Is this not a reason why we will not see another airport for this next generation as the costs are too much.

[SgtBundy]

From what I read the clause was that Macquarie had first refusal rights to develop any second airport.

[Wally Mk2]

$$$$$$$$$ it's ALL about $$$$$ oh & infrastructure, the country can't afford either, we are broke with a totally inept Govt whom simply don't have the foresight!
There's oodles of room that's never the issue but Pollies, Greenies, local residents & the fact that no one has the balls to make it happen means...... welcome to Australia (outside of curfew hrs that is!)!




Wmk2

[mcgrath50]

We're hardly broke. Check out Europe to see countries that are broke.

[truthinbeer]

I think Macquarie have rights to any new airport within 70km(?) of Kingsford-Smth.

[Checkboard]

We're hardly broke. Check out Europe to see countries that are broke.

Press Release - The Truth on Debt vs what the Telegraph writes [27/03/2013] (http://ministers.treasury.gov.au/DisplayDocs.aspx?doc=pressreleases/2013/038.htm&pageID=003&min=djba&Year=&DocType=)

http://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/djba/content/pressreleases/2013/attachments/038/599389_10151565379651789_613066901_n.png

... mind you, this is no excuse to chuck it all away by spending up big on borrowed cash!

[Wally Mk2]

That's all good & well there guys the chart looks very favorable for us, compared to the others but really we don't live in that chart.
If I have a neighbour whom is less well off than I do I feel better? Sure I would compared to him but I don't live as he does so that's not a feel good excuse for me.
I would consider having a huge debt like we have as being broke but that's just the way I look at it, for anyone else out there it maybe different. We now are living on borrowed monies so to speak. It may not be the correct terminology as I guess you could say as long as you can pay yr debts then technically yr not broke but sheeeez we are going down that hole faster than any Govt I can recall in modern times!
This country desperately needs infrastructure in all walks of life not just aviation, we don't have the funds (unless more is borrowed) & we certainly don't have the leadership/foresight, two things this country sadly lacks big time & for a so called wealthy country resources wise we ought to be ashamed at how we handle our affairs!
If my affairs money wise was anything like this countries I'd be very nervous!


Wmk2

[pull-up-terrain]

I reckon they should just extend the 16L/34R runway by several hundred metres so that 767's, a330's and 787's can comfortably take off and land on it to reduce the amount of traffic on the 16R/34L runway.

[Creampuff]

One reason the Australian government’s net debt is relatively low as a percentage of GDP is that successive governments have effectively out-sourced public debt to private citizens. What otherwise would have been built/provided by governments for use by private citizens is no longer built/provided. Instead of paying tax to cover the repayment of the government debt for building the infrastructure or providing the service, private citizens borrow money to pay for the private sector to produce the same outcome. Same numbers, just hidden in different places. But I digress …

There will be no second public international airport anywhere in the Sydney basin. There are too many important people with snouts in the bottomless trough that is the KSA monopoly. Also, there is so much demand for McMansions in the Sydney basin that the lure of short-term profits from housing/industrial development will always outweigh the long-term and benefits of fundamental infrastructure. It’s called the “Obeid effect”…

[Jack Ranga]

That's funny :D 'if Badgery's Creek is built'

[Kharon]

Here's an example of how the mind of a genius can be stimulated and lubricated at a Sunday BBQ. The boys want the Nobel prize by registered post please, "we live in a multicultural neighbourhood" they said......:D

We started discussing Albo's little AAT hearing problem and the Archerfield fracas which led to (inevitably) to Sydney airport. Somebody had a picture; and, 20 minutes later we've solved Sydney's airport problems. The photograph was produced during a sidebar, related to items of non-aviation related infrastructure (like ships) appearing in people's windscreens....:=

The image might also be useful when they start arguing about a third parallel runway! Consensus was, come to think of it, if you could get rid of those pesky ships altogether and accommodate a parallel 07/25 – a bit of ATC training on five-runway SIMOPS and bugger Badgerys Creek altogether.

I haven't had any updated information on this project lately, (**) but my understanding is that the development had gone a long way before somebody noticed there was an active runway and some pretty large ships projected to be loading, unloading and manoeuvring in amongst the B737s. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w448/PAIN_00123/Cargoterminalon16Lb_zpsc134e30a.jpg


Picture courtesy Paul Phelan (http://proaviation.com.au/news/?p=1238)resident scribe - Pro aviation (http://proaviation.com.au/)

Paul is reputed to have said : "This historic picture was taken from a B787 Nightmareliner on a demo flight to Melbourne presumably with smoking batteries unobserved by anybody but the 20-odd Boeing engineers on board".

[curiousflyer]

Some of the congestion issues could be solved in the interim if SYD airport would change that rule regarding number of departures per 60 mins which are split into 15 minute blocks if I remember correctly.

I can understand it in the early hours, but during the day it's a waste of movement time. They'll leave aircraft at the holding point sometimes until the clock ticks over....like we needed more bureaucracy.

[Todka]

I am also interested to know what the impact on Bankstown and Camden GA airspace and procedures would be.

Thanks in advance.

[Capt Fathom]

I am also interested to know what the impact on Bankstown and Camden GA airspace and procedures would be

We'll be long gone before any of us have to worry about that!

[Todka]

Only if you pass in the next few years.

It's announced already.

Tony Abbott confirms Badgerys Creek as site of second Sydney airport (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-confirms-badgerys-creek-as-site-of-second-sydney-airport-20140415-zqv0d.html)

[GregP]

Well .. all the speculation would appear to be over now. Abbott has just announced the decision to go ahead with Badgery's Creek as the site for a second Sydney basin airport(!). It's not clear what's planned for SSY; whether it will continue to operate as a domestic port or at all.

It is projected that it'll take something like ten years to build it so, clearly, there'll be little or no impact on existing operations before then.

However, it also seems clear that both BK and CN ops will be incompatible with Badgery's Creek activity and may well be shut down. The dilemma for BK and CN operators will continue to be whether to start making plans to relocate to somewhere(?), to take the punt that the Badgery's Creek proposition will never come off notwithstanding Abbott's announcement, to begin vigorous and targeted oppositon campaign now or ...?

It seems to me that Williamtown would be a suitable site: there's already an operational 'jet' standard airport there (would need a second runway however) and many ops would be conducted over the adjacent ocean, ala SSY now, the property is quite flat and there are thousands of acres of adjacent land available for acquisition, if neccessary. [The RAAF will need to relocate of course but they're there to take orders, with respect.]

If BK and CN are gojng to survive, lots of people need to get active right now. Else there won't be a GA airport within hours drive from Sydney.

[Todka]

That's correct. It looks like a done deal and roads infrastructure projects to be announced next week.

I am interested to know why people say it's incompatible with both BK and CN airports?

Surely some airspace can be sorted out. We can still fly past YSSY albeit at 500ft in a Victor 1 over the water. CN is at 300ft. Maybe a 1300ft corridor or something?
Isn't saying it's going to kill both airports off a little pessimistic?

[garrya100]

From the data I've seen so far the airports may be OK, but the training area is gone. How will flying training be done at BK and CN then? That's a few jobs that will be sacrificed. Also the Wilton parachute zone is incompatible, where are the jumpers going to go. Maybe all training and jumping will have to move to Warnervale or Wollongong

[truthinbeer]

Warnervale closing for development. Local Wyong council has proposed a regional airport off the Hue Hue Rd. If it goes ahead it would probably be quicker for many Sydney travelers to catch flights from Wyong (what would the code be?) to connect with internationals in MEL or BNE than to trek out to Buggery. :rolleyes:

[truthinbeer]

Maybe Badgery will initially take all freight and budget airlines which will relieve pressure on YSSY?

[Horatio Leafblower]

Yeah right.

How many Pornstar flights go into Avalon now?

There will be a market for Sydney West, but I believe that it will be the regionals shoved out there not the majors.

Warren Truss and Barnaby will have little say in the protection of MacBank's jewel at Mascot. Malcolm Turnbull and Abbott will make sure of that :suspect:

Just wait while regional NSW and GA cop it up the arse. Again. :ugh:

[truthinbeer]

Macbank are only in it for the car parking. It's not an airport to them but a car park. That, is what makes the money.

[T28D]

Badgerys approved today by Federal Cabinet for a 2016 start of construction.

[Capt Fathom]

Badgerys approved today by Federal Cabinet for a 2016 start of construction.


2016. That will be when the bickering starts. All the original combatants will be out in force!

If by some miracle it does start in 2016, it will take 8 to 10 years before the first aircraft arrives!

I think Hongkong Airport took 7 years to complete.

Will be entertaining none the less. :)

[SOPS]

Meanwhile, the Chinese intend to build another 82 airports by 2015. And we have done what in the last 30 years of arguing about a second airport for Sydney?

[The Banjo]

SOPS,

Try 40 years.........


14 Nov 1974 - LOAD TEST ON SYDNEY'S MAIN RUNWAY (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/110787982?searchTerm=Second%20sydney%20airport%201973&searchLimits=)

:ugh:

[Howard Hughes]

-Allow International operators to operate 24/7 at Mascot with new technology quieter aircraft (A380, B787, etc...)
-STAR's terminate at the runway with unrestricted descents (no 50 mile downwinds at 6000 feet)
-New departure routes to allow unrestricted climbs
-Domestic operations could continue with 2300-0600 curfew.
-Build a second East/West runway into Port Botany, shifting the ports to Port Kembla and Newcastle

This would negate the need for a second Sydney airport indefinitely!:ok:

[601]

And we have done what in the last 30 years of arguing about a second airport for Sydney?

Not quite correct.
Welcamp Airport (http://www.wellcamp.com.au/airport/overview)

[Pinky the pilot]

-Allow International operators to operate 24/7 at Mascot with new technology quieter aircraft (A380, B787, etc

I suspect a lot of Industry people would agree with you Howard, but I would think it a nigh on impossible task to get the surrounding voters, er sorry, residents to agree with that!:eek: It is quite obvious that the newer aircraft are much more quiet than the old kero burners but getting the message across is the hardest bit.

And it would take a Politician with huge cojones to even make the suggestion.:ugh:

[BNEA320]

was talking to someone today about Badgerys announcement & they said there will be RPT services to Bankstown from interstate (whatever exactly that means, they wouldn't elaborate) within 3 months.


Does this mean the Toowoomba/SYD Dash 8 flights will be moved to Bankstown ?


Someone is possibly doing Mudgee/Bankstown using ex Brindabella aircraft.


Or where from Victoria ?

[Aussie Bob]

but I would think it a nigh on impossible task to get the surrounding voters, er sorry, residents to agree with that

All it would take is a bipartisan approach, it is hard to vote out an airport friendly MP if the opposition is also airport friendly.

Optimist aren't I ... :bored:

[Wally Mk2]

This will be an amusing situation over the next few years, will keep us Ppruners occupied for as long as it's taken to come thus far!
Some things that will delay/cancel this nice simple project.

Road infrastructure.
Public transport to/from Drome
FUEL STORAGE & how will it get there? Pipeline? B Doubles on the local Rds?......Lots of obstacles there.
Some endangered tree hugging frog will be threatened!
LOCAL RESIDENTS, this ought to be good!
And lastly don't forget with our pathetic political system where the tenure is 3 years (if yr lucky!) means there will be several elections had during the construction of this project & you can bet yr left one that in order to win votes both the major parties will be digging deep in their BS bag for sure!:ugh:
Whoops nearly 4got the corruption in the Govt system, it's already started (O'Farrell), their all such nice law abiding citizens with only their constituents in mind...cough cough cough!

At the rate we Aussies build anything in this country the cost will double (at least) NSW is broke.

Still we do need some form of entertainment here:)


Wmk2

[Pinky the pilot]

All it would take is a bipartisan approach, it is hard to vote out an airport friendly MP if the opposition is also airport friendly.


Agreed!:ok: But given the current crop of seat warmers/Parliamentary pension hopefulls (in other words, not a statesman amongst 'em) I cannot see it happening.:*

Optimist aren't I ...

Yes, but people like you are needed to balance out the hopeless pessimists/cynics such as I.:hmm:

[I_Con]

So its been a while since this was announced.

Does anyone have any info on how this will affect GA in Sydney?

I've had a look around and can't find any info anywhere.

[Ascend Charlie]

Here's the latest:

"IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN."

Pigs will fly RPT from the car park before Buggery Crack gets up.

[thorn bird]

"Does anyone have any info on how this will affect GA in Sydney?"

Will not affect GA at all.
By the time its built there wont be any GA in Australia.

[yr right]

I bet you all don't know this.
When lpc sold the land for the airport he had a cause in it that if the land was not built on before a due date the land went back to lpc at zero cost. That date was many many years ago and the land is now owned again by lpc. This means it has to be re brought before any thing can happen.

Cheers

[Con_G]

"IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN."
Maybe, maybe not.

However I do know of one business in Luddenam is ceasing operation in October this year, and the reason they have given is because they need to vacate the land for Bagderys Creek Airport.

I tried to post up a link to their announcement last night but it needed approval from mods and hasn't come through yet. For those interested look up "The Train Shed" on Facebook.

[morno]

I don't know what everyone is expecting given they announced it only the other month. Earthmovers already moving in to start digging it up?

It's a big project. There wouldn't even be any plans yet. I'd be surprised if there's any construction inside of 12 months from now.

morno

[sms777]

Give it to a Chinese contractor, it will be completed in 6 months.

[Freewheel]

That may happen anyway, but it won't result in a 6 month build......:rolleyes:

[Pinky the pilot]

Interesting comment sms777 and you are probably nearly correct. However if such a thing did occur, I would like to see constant supervision etc by building inspectors and such like, just to make sure they don`t start trying to fiddle the books by using substandard materials.

Cynical?? Who..me?:confused:

[ranmar850]

Give it to a Chinese contractor, it will be completed in 6 months.

Only with an all-Chinese workforce, working to Chinese building standards, Chinese OH&S laws, and the Chinese approvals system...including the right to "detain" anyone who protests about any aspect of it:rolleyes: