Heli Career Without An IR??????

[zimbizee]

Is it possible to have a career without the IR in the UK. Instructing is not in the mix.

I suspect it is unlikely but wanted to ask.

Cheers

[Bravo73]

In short, yes it is.

But you will always be up against people who do have IRs, even for VFR jobs. And jobs that require IRs will generally always pay more.

PDG and WPD are a couple of operators who do a lot of power or pipeline surveys so they often employ pilots without IRs. Heliair also have pipeline contracts (although I suspect that those jobs would go to their current or ex-instructors).

So is it possible? Yep. Is it easy to find that illusive, well paying VFR job? Nope (because you are up against an awful lot of competition).

[Thomas coupling]

Concur......

[John R81]

P2 on some air ambulance outfits - some recruiting now.

Day / night VFR required, not paid for IFR quals

[ShyTorque]

It depends on what your aspirations are. Some jobs definitely require an IR.

An example to illustrate the point:

I once flew a passenger to an important meeting (AGM for a large company) on the other side of the Pennines. It was a fairly straightforward IFR/IMC transit over the hills with a letdown to good VMC on the other side at destination.

After picking up the passenger the following day, I asked him how his meeting had gone. He said they hadn't been able to complete the meeting because another key person was late, then rang to say he was unable to attend. His helicopter pilot had apparently turned back when they reached the Pennines and the cloud met the hills (as per the met. forecast).

He then asked me why this should have been the case, bearing in mind the fact that we crossed the hills no trouble at all. I suggested that the other pilot possibly wasn't an IR holder and/or the other aircraft wasn't IFR equipped (found out later it was a Jet Ranger). Questions were later asked of the other operator...

Point is, the businessmen (plural) had no idea of, nor cared about the pilot's qualifications; all they wanted to do was get to the meeting. From the feedback I heard, the Jet Ranger operator wouldn't be used again by the company.

I have sympathy for the other pilot, who had obviously come under pressure to operate to the limits of his capabilities, been unable to complete the task and so taken the safe and legal option. Yet he probably still got an ear-bending afterwards. :(

[firebird_uk]

I'd concur with B73 & TC, but you won't find it in regular passenger transport or pleasure flying. It'll be from operators flying pipeline / electricity / rail contracts, so expect to be away from home much of the time.

Outside that (currently) you may have "a career", but you won't have a regular salary as you'll only get paid if (and when) you fly.

[jackjack08]

Any ideas who is recruiting for P2 and where will it be based ?

[misterbonkers]

Zimbizee - sadly though you will still need circa 2000hrs before you can get a job with PDG. Powerline/pipeline flying is just the start of your work at PDG as they do a whole host of interesting hands on flying (yes - actual flying!) with lots of different (and sometimes unique) kit attached! So if you're low time get an IR as it seems offshore are less fussy about who'll they'll employ and the hours you have - the money will always be better offshore because if it wasn't people would choose onshore for the flying!

[Francis Frogbound]

Zimzibee;

Without an IR you are seriously restricting the number of operators you could fly for as well as the type of work.

Many corporate customers don't just want an IR now, the amount of quotes for two crew is going through the roof (esp since Jan 16) and under EASA both pilots will have to be equally rated so the non-IR P2 is going to become a thing of the past.

An IR or an instructor rating is a huge financial ask, but you really need to consider one or the other. In fact if you are fairly low houred I'd go instructor for some serious hour building and then IR, or IR and offshore for some very serious hour building. But remember the transition from offshore back to onshore is quite hard (at least I found it so, but then maybe I'm just thick)

FF

[zimbizee]

Thanks for the replies,

Currently have 2000 hrs as an instructor, all on robbies - no turbine time.

I ask because the cost of an IR is way beyond me plus the required turbine time to be considered seriously in the industry i am thinking about a career change.

[Bravo73]

How about looking to get a job with a training school who also operate an AOC?

Piston instruction can soon turn into SE turbine charter that can then turn into ME turbine charter. Then you'll be much better placed.

[OTGLU]

Given the industry, and as frustrating as it is, many would be happy to be in a 2000hr position as you are, still working.
My licence expired as couldn't fund the extra hours and course to even gain an FI.
The idea of using a school with an AOC is a good one, may eventually get you the turbine time.

[zimbizee]

Trouble is the work is just tailing off and it's not paying the bills by a long shot. With the current economic climate and rising costs of learning to fly folks are staying away as they can't afford it.

Plus i'm all instructed out now and need a change but without an IR options are limited.

[handysnaks]

Zimbizee.
There is no easy answer. I don't know what age you are but my opinion is that if you are under 45 you should consider investing in your future and getting an IR. I suspect that in a few years time Hems/AA work will probably require IR pilots. As the supply of permanent jobs goes down and the availability of IR'd pilots goes up having an IR may become a necessity just to compete for any available job.

[MartinCh]

with your time, you should be fine getting turbine multicrew gig in Spain, VFR firefighting or utility, no? Do you speak Spanish or can relocate?
presume you don't have foreign IR that would save you some cash doing Euro IR conversion?

Edit: I never said PIC job on twin on utility or fires. I said multicrew copilot, incl VFR ops, where IR isn't essential. Not all INAER or other operators require IR for copilots on VFR jobs.

Yeah, with your time, zimbizee, I'd get PIC twin gig just like that. Even with half of that. But that's because I speak couple other languages, not purely due English and Euro licenses.

[apb]

with your time, you should be fine getting turbine multicrew gig in Spain, VFR firefighting or utility, no?

I don´t wanna be a "black cloud" here but It isn´t so easy to get a job in Spain lately, without IR you only can get a firefighting job and it will be as freelance pilot working among 3 or 4 months per year...and you have to speak and understand spanish well of course.

[MartinCh]

apb, yes, that's what I meant and friend suggested. Still twin turbine experience. Seasonal, obviously. But with 2k hrs rather than fresh out of training, still better chances of ticking other boxes AND WITHOUT IR.

If it's chicken and egg (Catch-22) thing, then break the mould and do it the way others normally wouldn't. I'm not excited about the increased obstacles (self-funded IR) to jobs in UK or Scandinavia, obviously, but won't be a deal breaker for my career.

[zimbizee]

I know it's easy to say just go get the IR and invest in your future, but i don't have £30,000 - £45000 or whatever the current prices are for an IR laying around.

I'm in my early 40's and it's decision time on which way to take my life.

I'm not complaining, i have had some great years flying but the reality of everyday living and finances are forcing me to consider alternatives other than flying and as i do not have an IR was just wondering if there are others without one making a go of it.

[ShyTorque]

I suppose the best way to look at your situation is: "How much of my investment in an IR am I likely to get back, in the time I have left in my flying career, over and above what I can already earn without".

You already know the answer to the latter part of that question.

Are you qualified to do something else and if so, are you able to earn money by different means as a supplement to your "VFR only" earnings?

One thing I would bear in mind is that modern aircraft are leaving the factory better equipped, which means IFR equipped; this seems the modern way forward. There's little point to anyone hiring a non IR pilot to fly their very expensive IFR machine.

[ValhallaPilot]

Come to Canada.

Over here I'd say close to 90% of the work is done VFR.

99% of that is done during daylight hours.

I myself am colourblind with a daylight restriction on my licence and it wasn't even an issue when I was applying for jobs.

With 2000 hours you are fully employable over here and there is lots of work.

[MartinCh]

VP, while it's been done many times by Ozzies and Kiwis, using Working Holiday visa to go over, find job and once proving oneself, the company then sponsors the work permit/residence visa application for said pilot.
I'm not sure which company would offer doing so without having prior experience of the pilot in question. One can drop in on tourist visa, do quick conversion and then ask around, but it's extra hurdle. If you know of some, let the OP know or post it here to the benefit of others as well.

[Heli-Jock]

It may be possible but you will be ducking and diving all over the country working for people who would rather not pay you! Dodging all sorts of crap weather trying to complete flights.

The ONLY way to go forward with Heli flying as a career, especially in the UK, is to get an IR and use it offshore! Regular income, paid on time, in a safe environment, excellent packages and you only work half the year! Its a no brainer for me!

Ive worked onshore, in the UK, VFR for the past 12 years on a part time basis as to do this full time would have seen me broke, well before now!

Do the IR, its the best way forward if you want to stay a Helicopter Pilot!

Good Luck! :ok:

[zimbizee]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes it would be great to get the IR and it's easy for people to say go get it and invest in your future, well that's all well and good but unfortunately i don't have access to 10's of thousands of pounds to do it and never will have.

Oh well looks like a real job with flying on the side:(