Emirates Provident Fund and Mondial [Archive]

Payscale

7th Apr 2013, 09:10

I have gone 3 times in 10 years.
The two first was the usual pitch. "If you think the market is going up then you should buy. If you think it will crash the you should sell. Now sign the dotted line so I can charge my commission."
Third ime was another guy. Little better, but just another guys opinion of which product you should buy.
Unfortunately we cant change Mondiale, to some superstar fund manager. Just imagine all that money we pump into that company every month....

nolimitholdem

7th Apr 2013, 09:26

With due respect Payscale, as no doubt there are weak employees within every company and I'm sure Mondial is no different. But my experience was nothing as you characterized.

Mondial is retained by Emirates to give fee-for consulting, twice a year as mentioned. They are not commission-based. I would never listen to any manager whose compensation was based on commission. Period. It's the definition of a conflict of interest. So the comment about "charging commission" is not accurate. If you get a good advisor - as I felt I did - his only goal is to provide you with the best portfolio based on mainly, your own personal risk tolerance and your specific circumstances. i.e., someone about to retire will have different goals than someone just joined.

Most guys leave their funds at the default settings, and leave with little more than the sum of theirs and the company's contributions. Which is a shame, when EK even pays for the advice to potentially make more. There is nothing to say you have to heed said advice, but if someone else wants to pay for assistance in twice-yearly balancing of my portfolio, what's not to like?

So no, it is nothing like the creeps who harass from Devere, Globaleye, etc. I'd say do your own research, take the free consult, and then make your own decisions.

I wouldn't trust a "superstar fund manager" either. The only person who actually cares as much about your money as you...is you.

irish777

7th Apr 2013, 12:06

Actually, I had a good and bad experience with them, changing the funds away from the default has been excellent and he gave good advice on this. Anyone who doesn't change them is mad IMHO!

However before long the conversation moved on to savings and that the C fund is no good (which is true) and before long it was about the usual managed savings plans that the other dodgy lot sell (from which he would get a huge commission). Can't complain on the provident stuff but be careful with anything beyond this.

Jet II

7th Apr 2013, 16:17

I found them to be rubbish - tried to flog me a 25 year endowment policy - I am 50!

Wizofoz

7th Apr 2013, 17:35

I'm putting in this post because one of sittingidlys usual incoherent, anti-British rants was directly above it.

What will almost certainly happen (if history is anything to go by) is that sitty will wake up tomorrow sober, realize he's made a **** of himself yet again, and delete it.

fliion

7th Apr 2013, 20:28

....and then blame the American bourbon for conspiring to make him write the post.

f.

fliion

8th Apr 2013, 07:39

...and hey presto!

Spoogie

8th Apr 2013, 08:39

I availed the service for the first time this year. Met with a guy by the name of Jason Diab. He was quite friendly, gave me some advice and as soon as my changes were put in place, I saw an improvement. :ok:

Wizofoz

8th Apr 2013, 08:59

:rolleyes:

ETA- Just to be clear, the "Roll Eyes" thingy wasn't directed at you Spoogie.

kingpost

8th Apr 2013, 14:58

Been there quite recently, ask for Peter Shaw, I thought his service was brilliant.

When I first went, over 12 years ago, I thought they were absolute rubbish, I now go twice a year!

Jolly Foreigner

9th Apr 2013, 04:00

Thanks for your responses guys, much appreciated. I've done over 10 years in the provident scheme and never been inclined to take up the offer of a review due to the experiences of other so called financial and wealth management snakes in Dubai.

Spoogle - out of interest where were you suggested to change your investments from/to? PM me if you feel the need. I would be interested to compare notes after my visit to Mondial.

BYMONEK

9th Apr 2013, 14:56

I agree with Kingpost. Peter is very good and clear. The advice you receive from them is purely their own opinion of the market. They do not get commission, merely a set fee for each EK pilot they see. I have never been sold anything I didn't want or ask for. I did convert one of two pensions into a private pension with them which has faired ok so far. They didn't push for the other, actually recommending it stays with the Company for diversity!

As for the C fund being rubbish, I have to disagree. The choice of funds are far greater than those in the A & B and you pay no yearly fee. You can swap and change several times per year for no charge and the same funds are available to the public. My C fund performed outstandingly over the last 2 years and proved a great investment following good advice from Mondial.

BigGeordie

9th Apr 2013, 16:02

The problem with the C fund is that the range of funds, although larger than for A and B, is still very limited. Why restrict yourself to just those funds when you don't have to?

Dropp the Pilot

9th Apr 2013, 16:19

Eh?

Looks like you didn't get your money's worth from your free investment advice.
Most of the funds offered in the C have management fees of 1.5% and more - among the worst in the world.

If you and an EK colleague put your money into the exact same assets, he using ETFs and you using your C fund you will find at the end of your career that he has about $150,000 more than you. So much for free investment advice. Since you are so free with your own money, can you buy me a Range Rover like the one you did for the lads at BlackRock?

BYMONEK

10th Apr 2013, 08:50

Dropp

You're talking rubbish. There's no yearly fee, period. By law, they'd be required to show what fees have been taken and I've seen nothing on my statement to suggest otherwise. Please don't say they're hidden in the returns otherwise the share prices would be different to those listed in the FT every day and they're not! I have asked Mondial and they have confirmed that we are not charged for using the C fund. It is the cheapest way to invest in the market.

If you can show or tell me where these charges are applied, please go ahead. People are looking for sound advise and I'm more than prepared to accept I'm wrong if proven so. I will not take your post as an offence to my financial knowledge. The house I currently live in was purchased recently, courtesy of a large deposit provided by the C fund with plenty remaining.

I doubt there's any bastard out there driving even a Toyota Echo off my back but thanks for the concern anyway!

irish777

10th Apr 2013, 09:51

There are no annual management fees but there are fund management fees underneath of 1.5% plus, it's also highly restrictive so you can only select certain funds. The C fund is rubbish for these reasons, even Mondial advised me against using it. Take the money somewhere else and invest directly in the funds that you want instead of paying these fees and being told where you can put it!

Dropp the Pilot

10th Apr 2013, 11:57

Maybe Bymon can work better with a graph. Here ya go:

How ETF And Mutual Fund Expenses Stack Up | ETF Database (http://etfdb.com/2013/how-etf-and-mutual-fund-expenses-stack-up/)

I admit I got it slightly wrong, I will in fact have $200,000 more than you at the end if you insist on sticking with the "free" C fund.

The BlackRock boys ordered another five magnums of Dom Perignon last night and they send their regards, thanks, and (surprise!) more recommendations of which funds they think you should be involved in.

BYMONEK

10th Apr 2013, 12:52

Irish777

I find it somewhat strange that Mondial would advise not using the C fund as they advised me it was the best and cheapest way into the market. Whilst limited to some extent, the selection for investments available cover all the basics and should be enough for most pilots, from cash to higher risk. Most pilots are either too apathetic or ignorant to bother changing their default setting for the first few years (cash) and many never take advantage of the free twice yearly advice given by Mondial.

At the end of the day, I use my free appointments and have always found it worthwhile. As I've said before, the fund recommendations have generally worked out very well although i've not always gone with their suggestion. I can't see, therefore, what anyone has to lose by making an appointment and going for a chat.

Dropp

Regarding ETF, I know very little about them other than for investors like you and I, only the 'secondary' market is available. You will, I assume, have to use a broker? Either way, they too are limited to certain accounts with restrictions. Interestingly, the graph assumes a yearly growth of 10%. Good luck maintaing that for the next 30 years. Ultimately, it's what stocks you invest in will decide how successful you'll be in retirement.

I'm only passing on my experience to someone who asked a valid question. I'm a professional pilot, not a professional financial advisor. If ETFs work for you, good luck. Why not spend the effort explaining how well you've done with them to the original poster.

Dropp the Pilot

10th Apr 2013, 13:44

Either way, they too are limited to certain accounts with restrictions.

You do not have a clue what you are talking about. Please stop before someone follows your lead and and also robs their near and dear of thousands of dollars.

ETFs can be held in any account, by anyone, in any country, in any currency, are priced by the minute and can be instantly bought or liquidated for about $8 a trade, 24 hours a day.

irish777

4th May 2013, 18:38

Dropp, resurrecting this a bit - who do you use to trade ETFs in DXB? I have this up back at home in Europe with various companies with nifty iPhone apps and the like, but would prefer to avoid transferring money back and forth and sticking to USD/AED. Any info appreciated even via PM.

ruserious

5th May 2013, 04:44

Saxo Bank have a branch at DIFC, which is where I opened an account
http://ae.saxobank.com/

ramjetski

9th May 2013, 12:53

My experience says use the A & B funds, since you must be in them with your prov fund bucks. Also use the freebie meetings to hear another point of view.

However (comma) the C fund is just too cumbersome & slow in today's markets. You need to be nimble just to retain what you've got. The days of "buy & hold" are toast. If you limit yourself to the C fund, you are simply leaving your money on the table all night. Any poker player will tell you that's a disaster - just a matter of when you get tapped.

IMHO, take any bucks destined for the C fund, find a good broker (Interactive is OK) & park it there. Figure out how to invest it properly & do so. You are ultimately in charge of your own $.

Machspeed

31st May 2014, 12:34

Anyone have an email and phone contact to book an appointment? Seems to be a little bit of a secret.

BANANASBANANAS

31st May 2014, 13:08

04 399 6601 Landline
04 399 6721 Fax
http://www.mondialdubai.com
[email protected]

I had a meeting at Mondial with Peter Shaw recently. I am probably about as anti IFA as you can get, having fired 3 of the self serving scumbags in the last 2 years but I have to say that Peter is a breath of fresh air. He gave good advice, didn't try to sell me anything, responded quickly to a few follow up emails and generally came across as genuine and trustworthy. It is early days in our working relationship but the signs are good so far. PM me if you want his mobile number.

helen-damnation

31st May 2014, 14:43

BANANASBANANAS

31st May 2014, 16:39

I see Peter Shaw, gives me his opinion which I have generally followed.

I use the C fund, was even advised by my non-EK advisor that it's not bad due to the reduced charges.

You can lead a horse to water etc etc!

I have a QROPS and you should see the charges on that. Annual fees for the wrapper, IFA fees, trustees fees etc. luckily we have had some good returns but you are running into a good 2% headwind for the first 8 years. C account is a lot better deal than many people might initially think.

pumpkin

1st Jun 2014, 03:18

Is there any way to avoid sending money to the C fund via EK? Can we remit directly to the provider? I do not trust EK with my money and paperwork- I have a decent sized sum held offshore I want to put into the C fund.

helen-damnation

1st Jun 2014, 04:17

Yes, you can. Give them a call, they'll give you the details.

Dropp the Pilot

1st Jun 2014, 04:44

If you have a "decent-sized" amount the place for it is almost certainly NOT the C fund.

I am intrigued by people who are saying that the C is a good deal. Could they quantify that? Typically, funds like those on offer in the C have management fees of up to 2% which means that while your fund manager is deciding on what colour he would like for his Bentley (using your money), you actually have less money every year if you happen to be in bonds.

ANY money you have can be far better implemented with more freedom and better returns almost anywhere else.

spanishfly69

1st Jun 2014, 05:53

Russelll Global 90 from 06/13 to 06/14 = 9.90% - 2% = 7.90%
Not great, but not bad either on my book

BANANASBANANAS

1st Jun 2014, 07:04

If you have a "decent-sized" amount the place for it is almost certainly NOT the C fund.

I have to agree with that. The success (or otherwise) of any lump sum investment is determined largely by the price at which you buy. It's far better (imho) to smooth out the natural volatility of most funds by making regular contributions - monthly or quarterly if possible. There is a small chance that you will miss out on great returns but it does significantly reduce the chances of getting burned. Depends on your appetite for risk I suppose.

helen-damnation

1st Jun 2014, 07:41

1.6.13 - 1.6.14
Fidelity International Fund 18%+
Russell Global 90 Fund 12%+
Russel Global 70 Fund 9%+
BGF Global Opportunities 13%+
BGF Global Equity Fund 11%+

Doing ok.

kingpost

1st Jun 2014, 08:09

As far as I'm concerned the C fund has done me well over the years by making use of the Russell Funds.

The issue is when one wants to leave, that's when the "financial services" vultures get you - they'll start selling you products that are good for them, not you - in the C Fund one still has the protection from the company.

To me, the way to go afterwards is QROPS or just invest the whole lot into property, that way if it all goes wrong it's my fault because an institution will lose your money for you over a period of time. I do not mind paying 2% fees on a return but it's against me to pay a fee/fees when they lose money!!

Any thoughts?

BANANASBANANAS

1st Jun 2014, 08:19

At the risk of appearing to sit on both sides of the fence at the same time, I also agree that the funds Helen refers to are doing well - which pleases me as I am invested in most of them too. But if for eg, 10% of a 16% pa increase is made in the first 3 months of the year, and you then invest a lump sum, you not only make only 6% in that year, but probably see your investment dip into negative territory before bouncing back - given most funds propensity for volatility. Making regular contributions allows you to buy cheap when the fund is down whilst still providing very strong returns. From experience, I can testify it is a much less stressful way to invest and monitor your portfolio.

Kingpost. QROPS is a good product provided you set it up properly. Be particularly careful of the charging structure you sign up for. Royal Skandia (who provide my wrapper) have literally thousands of different charging structures and the first 8 years of charges are largely spent on paying back the commission that they paid to the IFA who set up my QROPS and 'sold' me the Skandia wrapper. The IFA commission is typically 7% of initial investment but your IFA will try very hard not to tell you this and there is therefore a lot of conflict of interest potential. It also helps if you know where you will be living in retirement. As a UK expat with my QROPS offshore and no plans to return to UK I will be spared UK taxation but subject to the tax laws of my resident country. Some countries will tax QROPS drawdown income whilst others will not. If you have any form of government pension (eg military) I strongly suggest you consider keeping it, even if it is subsequently taxed as it is yours for life and will only ever go up. A QROPS has a limited lifetime as it is a drawdown pension and when the pot is empty there is no more income from it so you really need another income stream to compliment the QROPS.

BYMONEK

1st Jun 2014, 10:16

Dropp

Jeeze, those financial scumbags must be doing really well off my back. Last year you told me it was a Range Rover, this year it's a Bentley. Best get into ETF's quick before they order the private jet! :rolleyes:

pumpkin

1st Jun 2014, 15:29

Thanks all for the input. I completely agree about monthly payments a better option than lump sums for ongoing investments- however I recently sold a small property in Rak and want to put that money in something with low moderate risk for 4 - 5 years until buying a house back home. I have limited knowledge of all the investment vehicles out there and little time to spend checking stock markets daily. As a result I, like many other pilots at Ek I am sure, look to the C fund as straightforward, with a set number of options with variable rates of relative risk categories. Unfortunately it sounds like I will lose a fair amount to the managers. I looked up ETF however after reading 3 different sites, I am still clueless as to what these are and how to buy them and if they are low,medium high risk etc. As well one site said there are still brokers fees involved so is the savings really there? What would you do with a lump sum you need to hold for a few years and need to be conservative with?
I have an appointment with Peter Shaw shortly- glad he comes recommended but obviously he is going to have bias .

Dropp the Pilot

2nd Jun 2014, 03:57

You're welcome. I recommend the burl wood champagne chiller.

How a 2% fee adds up to $350,000 over time: Mayers | Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/investing/2014/06/01/how_just_a_2_fee_costs_you_350000_over_time.html)

BYMONEK

2nd Jun 2014, 07:22

Dropp.

Thanks for the advice but I don't want to order the same car as the wife got this Christmas! ;)

DCS99

19th Sep 2014, 17:13

Am not the best one to give advice - else I would have retired by now and not be in the Sandpit.

But...
If you've not done it, go and see Mondial.

Be prepared to answer
1. When do you want to retire?
2. What is your retirement currency?
3. What income do you need per month when you retire?
4. What will be your legacy to kids and spouse/partner?

I changed some funds and started saving more AVCs.
I found advisor MG was direct and personable.

Thank me at Warehouse.

Jet II

20th Sep 2014, 00:17

1.6.13 - 1.6.14
Fidelity International Fund 18%+
Russell Global 90 Fund 12%+
Russel Global 70 Fund 9%+
BGF Global Opportunities 13%+
BGF Global Equity Fund 11%+

Doing ok.

Yes - but.....

The big problem with managed funds like the ones available through Mondial are the management costs dont necessarily give any benefit to the bottom line. If we take your best performing Fund, the Fidelity International, you pay every year 1.9% as a management fee whether you make money or not - so on a $10,000 investment you pay Fidelity $190.

If on the other hand you invested in a low cost tracker Fund like the Vanguard 500 Index Fund you would have seen exactly the same increase but you would only be paying 0.05% in management fees - $5 instead of $190.

There are actually very few managed funds that outperform the market when you include the hefty management fees.

Dropp the Pilot

20th Sep 2014, 03:37

It's worth repeating.

There is no nead to spend the time following the link if you really want to donate $350,000 dollars of your own money to your friendly fund managers. That would be your choice. And yes, they are ordering the private jet.

How a 2% fee adds up to $350,000 over time: Mayers | Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/investing/2014/06/01/how_just_a_2_fee_costs_you_350000_over_time.html)

harry the cod

22nd Sep 2014, 05:19

Dropp

Yes, indeed we have been over this before.

Unfortunately, most of us do not have the the knowledge or time that you obviously possess in doing your own long term investments. Mondial provides generally good advice and that works for those with little to average financial acumen. As for the 2%, EK provident fund does get a discounted fee structure. I think 1% tops would be nearer and that's built into the value. While I'm sure you're doing very well with your ETFs, a TRE who recently retired (RH) left with a fund valued at well over $2,000,000. He'd done 25 years give or take.

If I can leave with that amount, I wouldn't give a **** if my fund manager had a private jet.

Harry

my salami

22nd Sep 2014, 05:40

Harry,
I think to retire with that amount of money RH must have put a substantial percentage of his salary in the C found..:E:E
I have not heard of anybody leaving with more than 500-600.000USD....:ugh:

GoreTex

22nd Sep 2014, 11:26

me, 16 years 700k unless it drops again

Payscale

22nd Sep 2014, 11:34

Really!! 13 yrs and 320K USD...no C-fund.
I have seen a 25 year guy with 1.3 mill.
I obviously have the wrong adviser

Saltaire

22nd Sep 2014, 11:45

Please stop including the C fund. A recent 25 year retiree admitted to having 1 M USD, which is not that much after 25 years….

Desdihold

22nd Sep 2014, 12:02

Is there a management fee for the A and B fund?

Simple question but one that needs to be answered for my benefit and others.

8sugarsugar

22nd Sep 2014, 12:59

When a bunch of pilots are sitting around excited about how big their retirement account is, may be a sign….of a top.

I think one could sell any fund that holds bonds or equities and buy stable USD or GBP cash funds, in 5 years I think you'd be happy. Especially if you've already been saving for 15 years and ready to retire.

We're at all time highs people, don't be greedy. Nothing wrong sitting on cash earning 0% for a couple years. Its been a historical run. Be happy with your profits and lock them in.

The buy high, sell higher crowd never learns. Like a game of greater fools playing musical chairs. Who will be the last one without a chair? Easy answer, the fund holders..

We're in a bubble, again. Central banks around the world are on a race to the bottom printing cheap money.

You could easily see equities test the 2009 bottom again when rates start to rise again.

Jet II

22nd Sep 2014, 13:33

Is there a management fee for the A and B fund?

Yes - you pay the management fees (up to 2%) for each fund you are invested in.

harry the cod

22nd Sep 2014, 14:09

my salami

Yes, no doubt he was contributing a large amount into the C fund. I know of 1 TRE who's kids have left home and he's now putting away 50%! I'm half that with kids still at home and a mortgage to pay. It's do able so not sure why some on here say you shouldn't include the C fund. Why not? Your spare cash would be put into other alternative investments, such as property, savings, gold, bonds, ETF's or whatever you want to invest in for your future retirement. Some choose the C fund because of the lower fund charges and ease of use.

I have another colleague, 18 years, no C fund contribution, fund just over 700K.

I'm not selling the Provident Fund, merely pointing out it's value to some.

Harry

my salami

22nd Sep 2014, 14:38

I'm 100% with you Harry.
Just specify if you'r using the C fund when saying you made 1 Zillion Dollars...:D
M.S

flareflyer

23rd Oct 2014, 10:25

gents,
at the moment i have 50% dollars and 50% equities in A and B.
I was thinking to move at least 25% more in cash.......
i used to follow the blog ECAM but now it is only with payment.
I am extremely ignorant and happy to hear from you what are your decisions and doubts
thanks

helen-damnation

23rd Oct 2014, 14:43

So which funds are you investing in?

MrMachfivepointfive

23rd Oct 2014, 16:28

Just pulled out of all equity funds and went into Euro cash. Might look stupid, but I caught the 2000 dotcom and 2008 subprime bubble right by switching from equity into cash. Perhaps I will be 3 times lucky, perhaps not.

BigGeordie

24th Oct 2014, 09:19

I'm not sure I understand Widebdy's question- there is an app for the ipad/iphone which tells you exactly what your fund is worth in real time. I find the range of funds for the A and B funds much too limiting and conservative for somebody with more than 15 years to go to retirement. I'd rather have the money and invest it myself (my money, my responsibility) but that will never happen.

Dropp the Pilot

24th Oct 2014, 10:01

Continuing with the evangelism in the hope of saving a few more souls... Yes, you are trapped in the A and B and you are forced to throw away hundreds of thousands of dollars of your family's money. You can still "flee the C" and you will keep your investment returns where they belong: in YOUR pocket.

Unless you are Donpizmeov and already know everything about everything, take a minute or two to read the article and see the damage being done by the outrageous fees.

How a 2% fee adds up to $350,000 over time: Mayers | Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/investing/2014/06/01/how_just_a_2_fee_costs_you_350000_over_time.html)

donpizmeov

24th Oct 2014, 10:06

Aw drop, I knew you cared. Shucks :O

The don

BigGeordie

24th Oct 2014, 12:59

The end of service benefit is a UAE legal requirement and the provident fund is designed to provide a better return than the legal minimum end of service. That is one reason the choice of funds is so limited and conservative- it doesn't have to perform well, just produce a better return than the legally calculated end of service benefit. I think it almost always does.

Woopoops

25th Oct 2014, 04:35

After having various forms of investment: "C" and others outside EK for over 7 years, all I can say is that "C" works for me.
I don't see the money, have no access to it, as it goes straight into the selected fund. OK, I might be paying a bit in fees for their services, but when we talk about other investment vehicles, in most cases we end up paying service charges, account management fees, money transfer fees, etc.., not to mention hidden ones. Yes, I agree, it doesn't give you the greatest choice of funds, but it's simple, safe and judging by returns is actually doing pretty well. Most of American equities funds made in the vicinity of 70% + in the last 3 years.

helen-damnation

25th Oct 2014, 05:02

Widebody

In basic terms, it's worth 5% mandatory deduction of your basic salary plus 12% company contribution. After 10 years service the company contribution increases to 15%.

There is a reduced rate option of 2.5% and 7% respectively but I don't know the details.

Overall value depends on all the usual things, fund choice, market performance etc.

If you leave before 7 years service, expect some fairly hefty deductions to the total.

H-D

Dropp the Pilot

25th Oct 2014, 05:45

"If you leave before 7 years service, expect some fairly hefty deductions to the total"

Common misconception. If you leave before 7 years it is entirely possible that they will owe you MORE than what is in the A fund as they are bound to give you the legally-mandated EOSB. The "Provident" A Fund is merely a hedge against this eventual expense that they are exposed to by you and your career whims.

helen-damnation

25th Oct 2014, 07:56

Fair point.

In that case, presumably you get your contributions back (B fund) in addition to the EOSB?

Dropp the Pilot

25th Oct 2014, 08:06

The B starts off as your money and stays your money - you will always get the full amount upon your departure.

That may sound like a plus but in fact it is hostage money, subject to outrageous fees and offered only in deadbeat funds. Additionally, if your future plans involve living anywhere the economy is not directly related to USD/AUD/GBP or Euro you have no opportunity to save prudently - your retirement plans are totally exposed to currency risk. If that describes you, the A,B, and C are all the same: you may collectively call them the IMPROVIDENT fund.

Ynot

25th Oct 2014, 08:24

So...after the recent markets hiccup, the EU being in trouble again, the world wanting to kill each other in the name of gas and oil, the Ebola situation and the Chinese economy in a more conservative growth, what are the financial Gurus amongst yourself suggesting in reference to EK A B and C funds? Cash, bonds or equities and how risky can one be when it comes to equities?

MrMachfivepointfive

25th Oct 2014, 08:45

I always get the full brief from Mondial and then do the opposite. Turned out I was 100% cash during the dotcom and subprime bubbles. Mondial currently says the market correction is at least six months away.

pumpkin

27th Oct 2014, 10:51

Forgive my stupidity, but when you say cash- do you mean convert to cash funds, or close out funds and put the money in the bank? It is my understanding that even cash funds are not always safe, and if returns are zero, then we can actually lose money on the annual fees?

soennecken

7th Jan 2015, 06:20

helen-damnation

7th Jan 2015, 10:05

What is qualifying service?
For members who joined the Scheme prior to 1st August 2009, qualifying service is the period from the date of joining the company to the date of leaving.
For members who joined the Scheme after 1st August 2009, qualifying service is the period from the date of joining the Scheme to the date of leaving.

BS, but a nice wind up :D

Besides, if the money was no longer available to the company, anyone retiring after 60 could walk in to the office and vent their spleen with no come back. Imagine the queues :eek:

supervla

7th Jan 2015, 16:18

All provident fund members over the age of 60 will be asked to submit their fund termination forms. The company will no longer contribute to the fund. The maximum age for membership has been set at 60 years of age, effective 1st January 2015.

Soennecken is this really true ? Can some confirm this ? They basically reduced the salaries for cpts. If they start there they might scrap the hole provident fund.

DCS99

7th Jan 2015, 17:49

Soennecken I don't believe you.

soennecken

8th Jan 2015, 00:01

This is not something I would BS about. I work for a sister company of EK but belong to the Provident Fund.
Please check with your HR for confirmation. I would be interested to hear if it also affects EK staff.

helen-damnation

8th Jan 2015, 02:42

soennecken

Are you saying this is only for dnata staff?

If so, what is the normal retirement age in dnata?

At the moment, it does not apply to EK.

H-D

thefoxandfirkin

8th Jan 2015, 09:08

soennecken,

Mate - before posting this b*****ks try checking the scheme rules first - you might be suprised. Its clear from your post that you haven't!!!!!!

Go get yourself a firkin beer and read em :}

soennecken

9th Jan 2015, 05:04

Apologies to EK. I have found that this applies from 1st Jan to my company only and does not affect other companies in the scheme.

777Goose

13th Jan 2015, 13:52

It's free, I put off visiting for years and finally started about 3 years ago. In fact I go 3 or 4 times and I am not charged for the extra visits. My fund has passed 7 figures including the C fund. As I'm leaving the pit this year I checked the gratuity calculator on HR direct and I'm 50 % over in my A fund. The only regret is that I didn't avail of the C fund earlier. I suggest that when you get used to living off of a certain amount any extra funds such as steps and raises (yes wishful thinking) or upgrade; you put that in C where it becomes untouchable and compounds.

Dropp the Pilot

13th Jan 2015, 15:11

Take a look at all the things you have in the C fund. If you had just opened a brokerage account and bought the exact same things you would probably have about $50-70,000 more than you have now instead of giving it away as fees for worthless "management"

I may have said this before.

Don't any of you people read or take advice about your hard-earned money?

BigGeordie

13th Jan 2015, 18:29

I seem to recall Dropp may have mentioned something like that once or twice before. You might as well give it up Dropp, some people don't want to listen and some people remain terrified of making decisions about their own future.

My issue with the C fund is the extremely limited number of funds available to invest in. Why restrict where you can put your own money? Bad enough that the company gives you so little choice for the B fund (which, I would point out, is coming straight out of your salary every month, so it is very much your money as well).

Comments like "I have a seven figure sum" (I assume in USD but maybe it is DHS? That makes a bit of a difference) are totally meaningless unless you also reveal how much you have put in the C fund and how long you have been putting it there for. A lot of people could probably accumulate a million in 25 years if they rented a studio apartment in International City and lived on bread and water.

Stjuk

15th Mar 2015, 15:10

I as many others, assumption from what I've read in this thread, havent put in a bit of time to understand personal investment.

But after just minor research I will give Dropp my support. It makes no sense paying ~2% yearly in fees. It doesn't sound like much, but it add's up, a lot, over time as Dropp's links clearly shows. And as you can see, he is not trying to sell you anything, so be open to some good advice.

Enough of flattering Dropp, my main point for posting is to hear if anyone have any experience with Swissqoute. And how they compare with for example Saxo bank?

Also, are there other options available in the A & B funds with Mondial than are displayed when trying to change investment decisions online? So the question is really - are there more options if you go see them?

Thanks

skadonk

16th Mar 2015, 05:01

I'd also be interested to hear from anyone who has used Swissquote as a trading platform - specifically ETFs.

I compared Swissquote.ch and Swissquote.ae and saw that the former is significantly cheaper for ETFs, although you would not have the Dirham (AED) sub account option in the current account.

The Swiss site charges €9 for buying and selling ETFs and an annual maintenance fee of 0.1%. The UAE site charges 0.25% buy/sell fee and 0.15% annual maintenance. This is a significant difference!

If you went with the Swissquote.ch option, you would have to deal with them directly and not be able to use the local Dubai office for account opening, advice etc. but do you really need to?

thefoxandfirkin

17th Mar 2015, 14:30

Be very careful with your ETF's. I got very badly burned with them recently as the spreads can be hidden.

This morning star article is well worth reading on the subject I read it too late. Also my ETF was geared with synthetic derivatives in it which almost killed it.

Total Cost of ETF Ownership: The Bid-Offer Spread | Morningstar (http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/news/69355/total-cost-of-etf-ownership-the-bid-offer-spread.aspx)

I do use the C fund for some monies but it's just one investment amongst others so like everything better to spread the risk round a few different options. None of the charges on the C fund though are anywhere close though to the 2% Dropp mentions most are 0.75%pa with no spreads due to the discounts Emirates gets on them. We just need more choice of them I think.

Happy firkin investment :ok:

harry the cod

17th Mar 2015, 14:52

Stjuk

I would second fox's advice. Whilst there are some on here with the time, interest and financial acumen to use other investment vehicles, the C fund is a useful way to invest in equities and to build up steady growth over time. It's not a get rich quick scheme and shouldn't be seen as such. It's ideal for the majority of pilots, most of whom are pretty crap at investing generally. Especially the lazy ones!

First step is arrange a free meeting with Mondial. You get 2 per year so take advantage of it. There's no hard sell, just good advice based on what you want the fund to achieve when you retire and how much risk you're prepared to take. They'll also look at your other investments and assets to make recommendations.

One thing I will strongly advise against though is using ETF's if you're not au fait with the basics first.

Harry

Jet II

18th Mar 2015, 08:29

If anyone wants something to read to help their investment decisions I recommend Where Are the Customers' Yachts (https://www.ifa.com/articles/hard_look_wall_street/) - although it was written in 1940 it is still very relevant today at exposing the problems with managed funds.

Its very funny and you dont need to be an expert in the markets to read it.

GA Button

18th Mar 2015, 12:35

I'm being advised to move my UK pension into QROPS - any of you financial gurus have any constructive comments on benefits and pitfalls please? Yes I am being a bit lazy but on the other hand input from ones peers can be very useful!

BANANASBANANAS

18th Mar 2015, 18:20

Ga, As one who has been involved in QROPS for about 5 years now, may I offer the following advice.

First of all, anyone who is trying to sell you something is a salesman first and an IFA last. Very last.

If you have a government pension preserved from age 55, 60, 65, whatever, under no circumstances transfer it into a QROPS. By transferring into QROPS you are effectively gambling that you will die early. Who would bet on that?

Your IFA will tell you (in search of his commission at 7% of the transfer value) that if you die early there will be a lump sum to bequeath to your family. This is true. However, what he wont tell you is that if you live to be 95 (not unrealistic nowadays) your QROPS drawdown pension will be worth zip, nada, zilch, by the time you are 85, whereas your government pension will have kept growing at inflation rate throughout this period and will continue growing until you die.

Do not, under any circumstances, transfer a government pension scheme or any final salary pension scheme, under the vague promises of a pot of gold from an IFA. They are all salesmen and more interested in their commission than your retirement.

Jet II

19th Mar 2015, 03:16

If you intend to retire back to the UK at some point then QROPS is probably not worthwhile due to the cost and tax implications. If you are intending not to retire to the UK and your pension assets in the UK are frozen then it can be a good deal. As has been said above if your pension is a Government or an index linked final salary scheme then QROPS are probably not for you.

jack schidt

19th Mar 2015, 07:16

Who knows when "you" will die with a government pension in action. With QROPS you can reinvest it AND allow the whole sum to pass onto your spouse and then the children as it has now become an investment. A final salary pension will be halved for your wife and lost when you die.

Should you cash out and drop it into a QROPS or SIPP initially then you can take up to 30% cash at 55 and the annual £10800 tax free sum. If you now "INVEST" that money appropriately, the whole fund and investment will pass onto your wife (not half) AND then onto your children, ie fund not wiped like an annuity.

The key to cashing into a QROPS is to invest the funds appropriately and not waste it away and it will have been a better deal. Future government salary pensions are also not a guaranteed amount.

J

thefoxandfirkin

19th Mar 2015, 11:38

I looked at a QROPS for my government pension (AFPS 75) but the adviser (to be fair to him) told me I would be mad to transfer it due to the inflation linked guarantees on it. I took fee based advice which was well worth it as you say as the commissions on the QROPS can be up to 7% so at least the adviser was not conflicted.:8

Sure, if investments do well you might do ok from a transfer but with a government tax-payer backed scheme (depends of course which country you come from) you have certainty with a defined benefit and that's worth a lot. Also, with the QROPS your money can run out.....

Desdihold

19th Mar 2015, 14:43

Which nationality is Qrops associated with ?

jack schidt

19th Mar 2015, 14:45

Foxy, I totally agree with you but, my concern is for the other half who would be guaranteed a 50% cut in the final salary pension and then no one else benefits after that at all.

Unlike a previous poster mentioning the risk of gambling on your age of death, quite the contrary in that if you lock the cash away into property or otherwise, it will not be lost. It would not be an issue as you can receive an income from the drawn cash which you reinvested until the day you die. To be honest, keeping the final salary pension could almost be seen to be "good for you" but a poor choice for the other half.

Guessing as an example, someone aged 50 could invest the lump sum into a fund for 5 years and make the 7% fee back easily over that period (aged 55) when you would start to draw it down and put it into property or otherwise. Every year you could draw another £11k tax free and continue to pump it into a property until the fund is empty. You now receive your pension as a rent and preserve your capital to pass onto your better half and or the kids on your death.

Currently, unless you have an amazing deal and you wish to not transfer out, then you have done no one except yourself a favour.

Not an easy decision I agree and it only works if the money is reinvested. For some this would even allow an income from the money drawn out at aged 55 whereby you might receive it otherwise at 60 or beyond.

j

BANANASBANANAS

19th Mar 2015, 17:32

It really comes down to your appetite for risk. I strongly agree with Foxy. If you have a government or index linked final salary pension I would be most reluctant to transfer it into QROPS. Markets can crash and drastically reduce income, despite the most conservative portfolio structure. A government pension is about as risk free, fee free and guaranteed as you will ever get and it is a lot to give up.

You also talk about the consequences of a 50% cut in pension if you die soon. But supposing you and your wife live to 95 and the QROPS dries up in your 80s - as it is designed to do. Where would you and your wife be then.

If you haven't already done so, have a look at the GAD rates for male/female v age and it will paint a pretty picture into your 70s and will then get progressively worse and worse. Once you reach the actuarially determined age of death your QROPS will be completely drawn down and provide no income whatsoever - which is rather inconvemient if you are still alive.

jack schidt

19th Mar 2015, 17:48

What about using the money over a decade or more to part invest in property for an income? This will preserve the pot indefinitely would it not? Again, if the rental return is fair then your spouse would continue to receive the same amount should you be the first to go?

The main thing here becomes the consideration of trying to preserve the fund on yours and your wife's death. There is never a winner who has never taken a risk.

J