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JSeward
2nd Apr 2013, 00:16
Hello everyone,

I'm currently doing a school project and need help in finding out common (or not so common), little (or large) mistakes that us Pilots may sometimes make.

I will then use these on a poster campaign to hang up around flying clubs/schools and things like that.

Any help is appreciated!

piperboy84
2nd Apr 2013, 00:47
Thinking accidents or problems always happen to "the other guy"

Running out of fuel
Vfr into fir
Overloaded
Take off in wrong configuration
Over or undershooting
Overestimating ones skills/abilities
Ignoring checklist/procedures
Low and dangerous flying

Piper.Classique
2nd Apr 2013, 04:14
You might take a look at some accident and incident reports. These are on line on various aviation authority websites. Bear in mind usually there is more than one cause for an accident, often a chain of individually minor events.
Sounds like a useful project, please let us see the results.
Good work!

Big Pistons Forever
2nd Apr 2013, 04:51
Thinking accidents or problems always happen to "the other guy"

Running out of fuel
Vfr into fir
Overloaded
Take off in wrong configuration
Over or undershooting
Overestimating ones skills/abilities
Ignoring checklist/procedures
Low and dangerous flying


All of the above plus

-Not recognizing the engine is developing carburator ice before it is too late.

-A too fast approach which results in a nose wheel first touchdown and then multiple bounces resulting in nose wheel failure and/or loss of of control

TunaBum
2nd Apr 2013, 05:26
Get-There_Itis
Passenger influence
Forgetting to put gear down......:rolleyes:

(this is gunna be a long thread..)

patowalker
2nd Apr 2013, 06:52
Vfr into fir :confused:

p1andy
2nd Apr 2013, 07:04
Yeah im guessing VFR into a fir tree would be dangerous;)

Jonzarno
2nd Apr 2013, 07:15
Forgetting to take account of Density Altitude.

Getting behind the aircraft; especially, for example, on an approach in hard IFR when something else has gone wrong to distract you.

Inability to cope with system failures on the aircraft such as a blocked pitot tube or other instrument failure.

mad_jock
2nd Apr 2013, 07:40
Getting married rates quite high on quite a few pilots errors.

Some can do the same error 5-6 times

Basil
2nd Apr 2013, 08:38
Continuing an approach when you know you should go around.
Unlike civil airlines, private pilots don't have to file a report, nor did we in the RAF where it was treated as a normal flying procedure. Silly civil airlines;)

Whopity
2nd Apr 2013, 08:41
hard IFRSimulated or Actual?

Flyingmac
2nd Apr 2013, 09:07
Here you go: http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/topics/gatrend.pdf

phiggsbroadband
2nd Apr 2013, 10:08
Hi JSeward, I suppose you are still at school, and have not yet started to learn to fly.

The first thing you learn, whilst doing your PPL, is that everyone makes mistakes. Whilst learning you will be told by your instructor of the mistakes you are making, this will be once every 5 minutes.
Even as you complete your PPL you will still make mistakes, little things such as forgetting to fasten the seat-belts for the next pilot, as you leave the plane.

Some mistakes are just an annoyance... Putting your Chart on the back seat which is almost out of reach from the front seats, without undoing your seat belts.
However some small mistakes can prove fatal, if they occur at the wrong time... Whilst doing 60 knots 50ft agl. you don't want even the smallest of distractions.

The List is endless....

phiggsbroadband
2nd Apr 2013, 10:41
Hi... I just remembered my very first 'error', (apart from getting into the aircraft in the first place.).

Instructor says 'If you are you Ok on the radio... request Start'.

So, as I was a radio ham, I knew what a PTT button was, and also knew the phonetic alphabet, I decided to give it a try...

'Liverpool Tower this is Golf Alpha Bravo Charley Delta would like to start flying please'

Instructor interjects on the radio... 'Make that we request Engine Start...'

Liverpool Tower... ' Engine Start approved, best of luck!'

JSeward
2nd Apr 2013, 11:03
Thanks for your replies everyone, keep them coming they are helpful!

And Phiggs, I have been lucky enough to have support from my parents and got my PPL last year in November when I turned 17 (passed all the tests before but had to wait until I was 17 to get it) flying is great! (As long as we don't get replaced by computers the future is looking good!)

taybird
2nd Apr 2013, 12:36
mad jock - you sound like a man of experience

to add to the list:
leaving the fuel filler cap off
leaving the oil filler / dip off
leaving the tow hook / tie downs / pitot cover on

mad_jock
2nd Apr 2013, 13:14
Thankfully only sat next to experience.

Pilot DAR
2nd Apr 2013, 13:31
Misjudging ice thickness = capacity...

Flying - Thin Ice (http://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/614-thin-ice)

Contacttower
2nd Apr 2013, 13:39
I very nearly turned a Seneca into a two tonne glider once.

My instructor had turned off an engine using the fuel cut off switch without saying anything. When the engine died I thought: 'ah ha we have an engine failure' I went through the whole drill to 'secure' the engine, since the fuel had actually been shut off I did everything for real, feathered etc, then went to turn off the fuel on the shut down engine (which of course was already shut off but I did not 'know' this as part of the exercise). I'm not sure why but I think something in my brain thought 'oh that switch is already in the off position therefore it must be the other one that needs switching off...'

About 10 seconds later the other engine started to die, quick as a flash my instructor realised what I had done and restored fuel to the other engine.

What is sometimes seen in aviation is that for some reason, once in a blue moon usually, the mind, for no good reason just decides to do something different from what it usually does.

...Shuts down the wrong engine, raises the gear instead of the flaps after landing, grabs the mixture instead of the the throttle when reducing power etc...

To an extent aircraft cockpit design can reduce the likelihood of these sorts of things, for example having the gear and flap handles in different and representative shapes, having different style knobs on the different engine controls and having fuel levers that actually match the 'direction' that the fuel is going to flow.

Choxolate
2nd Apr 2013, 13:57
I would honestly admit that I probably make at least one mistake on most flights - something as simple as missing an item off a checklist, keeping head down too long in the cockpit, not checking regualrly enough from map to scenery and vice-versa. Mostly small and inconsequential.

Problems usually occur when you make several mistakes that build on each other - classic for me was being rushed in my "A" check and leaving the pitot cover on, this was exacerbated by the cross wind being just below my limits and the third was not checking that the indicated airspeed was live during the take-off.

Result - in the air with no airspeed indicated, cross wind limit now increased beyond my experience and capabilities. No terrible results as I flew on to my destinatin where the wind was straight down the runway and landed using power + attitude to set airspeed for the approach.

Sweaty moment though which COULD have had a much worse outcome if (for example) I had another problem to add to my mistakes.

The trick is to LEARN from mistakes, it won't stop you making them and making new ones, but hopefully it will reduce their frequency and avoid mutiple issues on one flight.

My two pence worth.

rayfill
2nd Apr 2013, 14:18
Not making the performance calculations because "it always works out"
Not checking the fuel inbalance when flying a SEP with 2 fuel tanks :rolleyes:

pudoc
2nd Apr 2013, 15:00
The biggest factor in GA:

"I'm a big, rich important business man therefore I am ruthless and do what I want and don't give 2 sh*ts about the safety of others because I am my own aviation authority".

That tends to be a big one at my local club and it infuriates me.

localflighteast
2nd Apr 2013, 16:35
DAR - is that Lake Simcoe?

i was flying over lake Skugog on Saturday, the ice looked like it was just giving way to spring, I even commented to my husband that I wouldn't like to be out on it. I guess simcoe gave way huh?

gemma10
2nd Apr 2013, 17:07
I wonder how many of us actually go through the operating handbook from page one to the hold. There are four in our flying group and one in particular thinks of the cockpit as a car and carries out his checks from memory. I did it once and once only after I left the nosewheel chock in place and tried to move off the parking stand. Lesson learnt. No matter how much you think you know the procedure off by heart I guarantee you will not.

Jonzarno
2nd Apr 2013, 19:43
Quote:
hard IFR
Simulated or Actual?

I meant actual. A Cirrus SR22 crashed at Zurich airport in exactly these circumstances, I think some five years ago.

flyinkiwi
2nd Apr 2013, 20:58
I want to add another item to the list:

Inadequate, poor or simply non existent flight planning and preparation.

I remember my first map reading exercise. The cockpit was a complete mess of nav charts, weight and balance sheets, performance graphs, weather printouts, NOTAMs and my flight plan (buried in there somewhere) when we took off. No sooner were we wheels up when my instructor asked me for my pencil because he wanted to change a waypoint on the route I had chosen. A mere nanosecond into the proceeding chaos I learned a very important lesson about proper preparation. :O:O:O

mary meagher
2nd Apr 2013, 22:44
Lots of little mistakes mentioned. But there are big mistakes that are by far most dangerous, and kill more pilots.

Number one: trying to turn back to the airfield with engine trouble when TOO LOW. And of course too low to recover from the spin that is the consequence.
(Always have a plan B in mind before you take off)

Number two: pressing on to planned destination when the weather is getting worse.....Never be ashamed to return to base, don't worry what anyone else will think of that sensible decision.

Fatigue. Under pressure. Don't be afraid to say no. I found a useful phrase to be "These conditions are over my personal limitations."

XLC
2nd Apr 2013, 23:16
Quite an experienced instructor told me once that pilots are most vulnerable to errors every 150 hours (or about), due to confidence & negligence.
Interesting statistic, and a good pointer to all of us, if correct. Can anyone corroborate this?

abgd
3rd Apr 2013, 07:01
There is a book called 'the killing zone' which argues approximately this. There were some big problems with the way the crash statistics had been analysed, so I don't know whether or not it's true.

mad_jock
3rd Apr 2013, 07:53
There is the same sort of accident statistic with scuba diving every 150 dives you have some screw up. Some more dangerous than others.

When you first get told this by the more experenced divers you think that will be right. But after 850 odd dives it held pretty true.

Unfortunately one of my diving instructors died while diving a clyde wreck. Dive number 1147 or there abouts.

Contacttower
3rd Apr 2013, 11:35
I think the main lesson from the experience vs. likelihood of accident analysis is that one is never completely safe and in fact after a lot of hours one has to guard against complacency even more.

Gertrude the Wombat
3rd Apr 2013, 12:22
There is a book called 'the killing zone' which argues approximately this. There were some big problems with the way the crash statistics had been analysed, so I don't know whether or not it's true.
Nobody much believes the statistics in that book, but the case studies are instructive.

sunside
3rd Apr 2013, 18:34
The NTSB has recently published five Safety Alerts about the most common accident causes related to pilot error, maybe this can help you:

General Aviation Safety Alerts (http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2013/ga_issues/presentations.html)

abgd
4th Apr 2013, 00:23
Nobody much believes the statistics in that book, but the case studies are instructive.

Maybe that's so, but it's published by an academic publisher at an academic price so I think it's appropriate to expect a basic level of statistical literacy from the author. There are cheaper and better books on the subject.

Big Pistons Forever
4th Apr 2013, 02:59
When you start flying you have two buckets

Bucket 1 = Luck

Bucket 2 = Experience

The luck bucket will be full and the experience bucket will be empty. The trick is to fill up the experience bucket before you empty the luck bucket....

TunaBum
22nd Apr 2013, 00:35
This might be of interest?:

http://www.mastery-flight-training.com/20130418flying_lessons.pdf


TB :ok:

Mariner9
22nd Apr 2013, 13:19
Forgetting to renew your JAR licence after 5 years as your class ratings are still valid and the CAA din't see fit to send out reminders.

OpenCirrus619
22nd Apr 2013, 13:37
When it goes "quiet up front" being concerned about the aircraft - instead of those in it.

Interesting stats show the survivability of the ensuing landing/crash is related to the type of aircraft. From least survivable to most:

Rare / Vintage / Warbird
Homebuilt
Privately Owned
Club


Surprisingly it turns out the reason, behind these stats, is NOT due to:

Aircraft type / performance / complexity
Aircraft maintenance
Pilot skill / experience


It turns out to relate to how much the pilot values the aircraft.

The most survivable accidents are when the pilot does his best to look after the occupants - if the aircraft is usable again, after the landing, it's a bonus.

The least survivable accidents are when the pilot tries too hard to make a perfect landing, in a perfect field - usually stretching the glide in the process.

Before someone says it I DO realise that the safest outcome is going to be a perfect landing in a perfect field - as long as one is available. If there is not one within safe angle/distance then the pilot who concentrates on "hitting the softest thing available as slowly as possible" is going to get the best outcome for the occupants.

OC619

pudoc
22nd Apr 2013, 18:26
Here's my stupid mistake, and yes it does follow a chain of events as mentioned!

-PPL instructor whines he doesn't earn enough

-He always asks me to do a quick turnaround...so he would land, I'd oil/fuel up whilst he debriefs new student and he meets me outside engine running.

-He lands late but still wants to do our lesson before the sun sets. When he lands he doesn't seem relaxed and jolly like normal but a bit serious (maybe flustered?? don't know if that's the right word).

-I didn't want to disappoint him. Firstly because students tend to look up to their instructors and secondly I arrived late for a lesson the previous day for which I received a telling off.

-Rushed the 'turn around'

-Tried to taxi to fuel pumps with the tie downs still on.

The tie downs aren't connected to hooks in the ground but they clip onto another wire which runs a long a whole line of aircraft. So technically I tried to taxi with around 8 planes attached to me. Nothing happend as a guy performing a walk around next to me waved me down before I started moving.

Suppose to sum that up, don't put undue pressures on yourself. Don't rush.

Maoraigh1
22nd Apr 2013, 20:18
Number two: pressing on to planned destination when the weather is getting worse.....Never be ashamed to return to base, don't worry what anyone else will think of that sensible decision.

YES. And being too busy inside the cockpit to notice the weather situation, and change your route to avoid weather.

India Four Two
23rd Apr 2013, 01:39
Taxying away from the fuel pumps with the ground/earth wire still attached.

A friend of mind did that in a helicopter! :eek: Luckily he realized what was happening and narrowly avoided a very expensive accident.

Privatecaptain
23rd Apr 2013, 13:11
Hi,

May I suggest the following book on this topic:

The Killing Zone
How and why pilots die

Author Paul Craig

The Killing Zone, Second Edition: How & Why Pilots Die, Second Edition: Paul Craig: 9780071798402: Amazon.com: Books (http://amzn.com/0071798404)

Lightning Mate
23rd Apr 2013, 15:36
.....and carries out his checks from memory.

That is what the RAF has always done, at least in the fast jet world - and that's a professional outfit I can assure you.

maxred
23rd Apr 2013, 15:52
Number two: pressing on to planned destination when the weather is getting worse.....Never be ashamed to return to base, don't worry what anyone else will think of that sensible decision.

The one that nearly got me. As it got worse, I clearly remember the image of the clear airfield I had passed and saying, no I wont land, it will get better. It did not, and very nearly killed myself that day, and I learned a lot about, not only weather, but myself. Went straight out and got an IMcr.