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capt tosspot
1st Apr 2013, 12:18
a quick question - has anyone ever had an OPC / LPC done with the TRE in the rear cabin and both pilots under test sat in the front? Sounds odd to me.:confused:

HeliComparator
1st Apr 2013, 13:20
In the Simulator, its by far the best way. In the aircraft, I think not!

ShyTorque
1st Apr 2013, 14:28
My initial IRT was done in that way. A CAA examiner in the cabin, an IRI/E in the left seat. I found it very unsettling, having two people taking notes.

212man
1st Apr 2013, 15:53
ST, slightly different as the TRE was being examined in his role as a TRE, not as an operating crew member...

CT, I assume you are not mixing up the OPC with the Line Check? Otherwise, there is no way that the OPC could be conducted in the manner you describe.

ShyTorque
1st Apr 2013, 16:14
ST, slightly different as the TRE was being examined in his role as a TRE, not as an operating crew member...

Actually, he wasn't.

Helinut
1st Apr 2013, 16:24
The arrangement ST mentions used to be used when no one from the CAA was rated on the type.

212man
1st Apr 2013, 17:05
Actually, he wasn't

So why was he taking notes? :confused:

ShyTorque
1st Apr 2013, 17:52
Why should he not take notes? The CAA examiner was testing me and as Helinut says, the company IRI was acting as safety pilot because no-one at the CAA held a valid type rating for the aircraft. I actually got two debriefs, but I passed the IR test, so I had no issue with that.

Agaricus bisporus
1st Apr 2013, 18:02
I seem to recall an IR initial at a certain gentlemen's flying club in which the CAAFU examiner took the jumpseat as he wasn't type rated. The FO shot an ILS and somehow, he couldn't explain it afterwards, the autopilot was engaged. The Capt in the RHS thought it was all going a bit too well and looked around, noticed the engaged light but thought to best to keep shtum (suspecting quite correctly that the examiner wouldn't know where to look for the engaged light). In the debrief the FO was commended by Capt CAAFU for flying the best ILS he'd seen in years and went home none the wiser.

he he!

ShyTorque
1st Apr 2013, 18:13
Could have been me (except the autopilot wasn't coupled up...). :p

212man
1st Apr 2013, 18:16
I see what you are saying now, but was confused by your statement that your test was done in the same manner that the OP was asking about i.e. that both pilots are under test. Doing a single pilot IRT, your IRE was - as you say - merely acting as a safety pilot and company observer.

Anyway, it would be interesting for more detail from the OP as his scenario is odd to say the least!

ShyTorque
1st Apr 2013, 18:28
I responded rather to the statement that the examiner was sitting in the back.

I hadn't assume that both pilots were under test at the same time; surely a L/R seat swap would be required if that was the case?

212man
1st Apr 2013, 19:36
I assume he is talking about an MPH type, but it's still not a viable option outside of a simulator.

Thomas coupling
1st Apr 2013, 21:24
Wasn't this the setting for the S76 stoof in Ireland many years ago:{

Hughes500
1st Apr 2013, 22:24
Can do better
For my TRE initial test I was in the front testing a pilot while in the back the CAA deputy chief flying examiner was testing me while he was being tested by the CAA chief examiner. The pressure was on until the pilot started taking the pi-- and I couldn't stop laughing well in fact crying

John Eacott
1st Apr 2013, 22:53
Not only was this the configuration for my IRT at Aberdeen, but it was also my first ever ILS. The company IRE didn't think it necessary to practice before the test, needless to say I wasn't privy to the debrief between him and the CAA chappy :ooh:

corky121
2nd Apr 2013, 00:29
My Indonesian license issue was like this.. Myself in the right seat, CCP in the left and DGCA examiner in the back even though he was rated on the machine in use. Different way of doing things to home anyway.

Um... lifting...
2nd Apr 2013, 06:27
Depends where you are. There are many reasons why this might be a valid thing to do.

TRE for the authority not rated in type.

Registry for the machine does not match the licence of the examiner.

Owner of the machine doesn't want anyone else but their own pilot as safety pilot.

The machine is military-owned, but a civil type.

Insurance.

And on and on.

I've heard of, been in, or seen each of these scenarios.

flight beyond sight
2nd Apr 2013, 07:06
Glad it made you happy. In fact under EASA an examiner can no longer test from the back seat unless he has an article 14(4) or 14(6) which at present no one has. Happy Days !

HOGE
2nd Apr 2013, 07:59
I have been the test candidate of a Initial TRE being checked by the company Chief TRE who himself was being checked by the CAA examiner.

4 people in the aircraft, 3 under test!

HeliComparator
2nd Apr 2013, 09:28
But all these scenarios are slightly different from the OP's. To have eg a TRI as the capt, with examiner in the back, is fine. But not to have 2 line pilots up front, both under test for OPC, with examiner in the back.

212man
2nd Apr 2013, 17:13
Thanks HC - glad somebody else could see the point!

ShyTorque
2nd Apr 2013, 17:42
Everyone saw the point but some don't recognise when they're being wound up. :p

212man
2nd Apr 2013, 20:02
I think not! Typical digressional behaviour I'd say.....

Sir Niall Dementia
6th Apr 2013, 07:21
Hoge;

I've had a similar one, me and P2 in sim doing OPC/IRR, head of standards testing us, CAA examiner testing him (and us) and CAA man's boss examining him (and and H of S and us). All pretty sweaty in such a confined space.

Due to the fact that only me, P2 and head of standards could really see what was going on the computer traces and film of the whole event played a huge part in the de-brief. As the candidates we were invited to everyone's de-briefs and then all went to the pub for an epic session (I'd say memorable, but my memory became very fuzzy after a LOT of spiced rum).

My initial IR/H was like ShyT's, company training captain lifting and dropping wheels and setting altimeters while nice CAA man sat on jumpseat and took notes (CAA man was rated and current on type), I could have killed the company man when he pointed out errors the CAA man hadn't mentioned during the debrief! Still a full first time pass is one to be pleased about.

I'm off to the box shortly for OPC/LPC with examiner being examined, always good for a laugh:{