APD is in effect

[fatmanmedia]

hi all,

Today we now have APD (Air Passenger Duty) on all private jets over 5.7t irrespective of how many seats or if it's a fixed wing or rotary wing.

One thing is the rate that will be charged will be the higher rate, so a flight of under 2000miles will cost £52 per passenger, 2001-4000Miles will incur a charge of £268, for a flight of 4001-6000 Miles the rate is £332 and for the very long flights over 6000 miles the rate is £376.

But he's the kicker, fly from Northern Ireland and pay no APD, yes you will still need to pay the £54 to fly to there from the mainland, but as long as the flight is over 2000 miles, you will not have to pay a penny.

Do people think this is fair or not?

I've tried to find the thread that mentioned this but i cant seem to find it.

Fats

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Luton was our stepping stone since the beginning of time......now its Paris.

On our return we no longer stop in UK, the boss has sold his house, and relocated his business base away from UK.

No idea if these are related but very interesting.

glf

[Red Four]

Excuse my ignorance, but how is this APD meant to be collected?

Does it only apply to AOC operations, or private as well?
Does the airport charge it to the operator for each flight and then forward it to HMRC?
Does the operator forward it to HMRC direct?
Does HMRC get in contact with the operator some time after the event and ask for the money?
Does HMRC contact the airport some time after the event and ask for the money?

Or is this an April 1st post?

[N707ZS]

I wonder if the government and sorry royals will have to pay APD on executive jets?

[cldrvr]

Air Passenger Duty - extension to private jets and smaller aircraft
From 1 April 2013, Air Passenger Duty (APD) has been extended to include private jets and other smaller aircraft. This means that if you operate an aircraft with an authorised take off weight of 5.7 tonnes or more, which takes off from a UK airport carrying chargeable passengers, you will be required to register for APD within 7 days of the flight occurring, and account for APD.
Helicopters and avgas fuelled aircraft are excluded from APD.
You can find the APD1 registration form (http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/forms/view.page?record=d0t4-RXxMok&formId=23) here.
Once registered you will need to submit returns and account for APD. The amount of APD you pay is determined by the number of chargeable passengers multiplied by the relevant APD rate. The rates you use are dependent on the destination and class of travel, as set out in the APD rates table (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/apd.htm).
For more detailed guidance on how to account for APD, please refer to Notice 550 (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000505).
If your duty liability for the year is £500,000or less you can apply to use the Annual Accounting Scheme. Further guidance is contained in Notice 552 (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_032597&propertyType=document).
If you are likely to make no more than 12 flights a year from UK airports and your duty liability for a year will not exceed £5000, you may not need to register, but can use the Occasional Operators Scheme instead.
Occasional Operators Scheme

If you are eligible to use the scheme, you may account for APD on flights over a 24 hour period by completing a combined registration notification and payment form within 7 days of your flight. This new form will be available soon.
You will need HMRC's bank details and a unique reference number to make your payment. To obtain these, please telephone 01702 366558. Do not use this phone number for any other reason.
You should send your completed Occasional Operators registration and payment form to:
HM Revenue and Customs
Central Collection Unit (APD)
Alexander House
21 Victoria Avenue
SOUTHEND-ON-SEA
SS99 1AA

HM Revenue & Customs: Air Passenger Duty - extension to private jets and smaller aircraft (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/air-passenger-duty/business-jets.htm)

HM Revenue & Customs (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000505)


Key point is you have a week to register from your first flight where APD is chargeable.

[cldrvr]

Or is this an April 1st post?


You wish, if you fly an "avtur" machine over 5.7t from the UK, you have a week after that first flight, starting today, to send the HMRC the cash if you only do 12 flights a year, or register to pay annually.

The key is the 7 days, don't know what the fine/penalty is if you don't.

[Red Four]

cldvr - many thanks for the quick reply.

carrying chargeable passengers seems to indicate that private flights not effected.

[cldrvr]

seems to indicate that private flights not effected.


Private flights are included, "chargeable" is in reference to APD, not to how the aircraft is operated.


To quote from the HMRC:

A chargeable passenger is anyone carried on a chargeable aircraft irrespective of whether they have paid for their carriage, which is not covered by an exemption.



One thing is the rate that will be charged will be the higher rate,


Careful there, only the higher rate is charged when over 20t, between 5.7t and 20T it is the "standard rate", and over 19pax AND 20t it is the "airline" rate, so refer to pitch and classes.

So a Citation/Hawker/Lear pays less than the heavy metal does.

For the Russian destinations, they left in the break at the Urals, without going into details what the exact boundary is, pretty vague if you ask me.

There are also specific rules for non UK based operators as to admin representatives and paying security (part of your estimated APD) up front.

[g450cpt]

Cldrvr is correct in stating that any aircraft whether AOC or not is considered "chargeable". My question to anyone that may know is "designating a representative". In reading the "scheme" I understand that each operator is responsible for designating an administrative representative or a fiscal representative with an address in the UK to be responsible for the operator. We have asked the handlers at various airports and they will not be a representative. Will the operator have to hire a firm just to represent us in the UK? If so, then I sense an opportunity for you UK guys with aviation smarts to become representatives of all the foreign operators.

[cldrvr]

g450, can't help you there, we are UK based. I am surprised though that the handlers can't guide you, they are responsible if you as a non-UK operator fail to register. The HMRC is pretty clear on that one, if you don't pay, the UK handler is liable.

to quote the HMRC:



If you fail to appoint a fiscal representative we may make your handling agent jointly and severally liable for future debts.



Try some of the bigger handlers here, LTN/FAB and see if they can steer you in the right direction.

There are quite a few handlers who post here so one of them may have an answer for you.

[g450cpt]

We tried Signature in Luton and Biggin Hill handling among others. Signature and Biggin Hill said the same thing "we will not be a representative". Some handlers didn't even reply and some didn't know what we were talking about. We have emailed HMR but no reply as of yet. It seems to me that this scheme was not thought through very well, at least not by people with knowledge of business aviation. I don't mind paying the tax, but at least make it as straight forward as possible. Pay the handler and the handler can pay the tax. It seems as though I was not on the consulting list when they decided to implement the tax.

[His dudeness]

In reading the "scheme" I understand that each operator is responsible for designating an administrative representative or a fiscal representative with an address in the UK to be responsible for the operator.

Thats the part I don´t understand either. Why the heck do I need a fr, just make the handlers collect it. If the handlers are held responsible I foresee a paper trail from here to the moon and back to prove them one has an fr...

Its the same idiotic thing in Austria btw...

This is an earlier thread:

http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/508605-apd-charges-business-jets.html

I have asked for a better definition if "west of Urals" and was told that they would need some more time to get back to me. They have not answered yet.

[mattman]

Really aviation in Europe is getting to be to much hassle.

I don't even know why I bother anymore

[I.R.PIRATE]

Universal is taking care of it for us.

[donPablo]

And this all applies only for departing PAX, am I correct ?
... or like in Italy also for arriving PAX ?

BTW have You ever been charged in any form by italians with their tax ?

[g450cpt]

Pirate,

Can you PM me a contact at Universal that is taking care of it for you? We use Arinc and had no such luck. Thanks in advance.

G450

[Booglebox]

His dudeness: if you hear anything else about APD in Austria please let me know :E

GLF:
Luton was our stepping stone since the beginning of time......now its Paris.
On our return we no longer stop in UK, the boss has sold his house, and relocated his business base away from UK.

Textbook case: that's why excessive taxes don't work. But maybe this is the wrong thread for that line of thought. :}

[mutt]

Boss just issued instructions that all technical stops are now prohibited in the UK, we will use France or Ireland, so I'm sure that the handling agents in Paris and Shannon will love this new tax :):)

Mutt

[cldrvr]

Mutt, no need to avoid the UK on tech stops, transit pays no tax. By all means use Ire/FR, however there is no need if you prefer the UK.

International to international flights are considered "Case B" and pay no APD.

[g450cpt]

Mutt

Is Shannon considered to be in Northern Ireland? According to the APD form only long haul flights from Northern Ireland would be exempt. It would suit me fine if Shannon is included in the Northern Ireland exemption, but I am not clear on that just yet. I hope you can shed some light on this.

g450cpt

[fatmanmedia]

Mutt

Is Shannon considered to be in Northern Ireland? According to the APD form only long haul flights from Northern Ireland would be exempt. It would suit me fine if Shannon is included in the Northern Ireland exemption, but I am not clear on that just yet. I hope you can shed some light on this.

g450cpt

Shannon is in the Republic of Ireland is a separate country so it will be outside the APD.

fats

[g450cpt]

Fats
Thanks for clearing that up. Didn't realize that Northern Ireland was considered UK and separate from Republic of Ireland. I was wondering why the APD tax guide only stipulated Northern Ireland. Well I will be off trying to educate myself more before I stick foot in mouth again.

g450cpt

[mutt]

The Emerald Isle is no longer a part of the United Kingdom, so this tax doesn't apply, the Irish do have a similar tax for passengers, but its only around 2 Euro (??) and doesn't apply to corporate aviation.

Shannon is an excellent technical stop as its a quiet airport and rapid turnarounds are easy. You should try it.

Cldrvr, thanks for that, the fact remains that a flight this month can cost us 20,000 UK more than last month, we can't avoid this payment as thats where the passengers want to go, but if we can avoid the country during tech stops, then we might gain one ounce of personal satisfaction that we do have a means of protest :)

mutt

[mutt]

3.1.4 Transit passengers
Any APD liability applies to the journey as a whole. When an aircraft makes a stop 'en route' and passengers do not change aircraft then no additional duty becomes due for the leg of the journey immediately after the stop.

CLDRVR, this sounds as if it applies to a technical stop once you have commenced the journey rather than using the UK for a technical stop.

The same applies to free upgrades if there is an element of entitlement or priority not enjoyed by other (standard class) passengers, for example in the case of 'perks' enjoyed by airline employees. This is cruel :(

g450cpt, you can cut down your liability by measuring your seat pitch and counting the number of passenger seats, including the TOILETS, which I believe are certified passenger seats for takeoff and landing. If your capacity equals 19 passengers and the pitch is less than 40 inches, then you can avoid the highest level of duty.

Mutt

[cldrvr]

Mutt, you are referring to pax originating from the UK, then you are right, the transit/tech stop is not the one that counts for ADP, the final destination is.

However you are originating from the Gulf, tech stop in the UK and then go on, that is considered a case B, and there is no APD for your pax.

The same applies to for example US carriers that use LHR as a hub, if the UK would charge APD on those pax, that would put LHR out of business pretty quickly as most if not all would switch to AMS. They put that loophole in explicitly to protect the hub status of LHR and I don't see that changing, ever.

[Booglebox]

entitlement or priority not enjoyed by other (standard class) passengers
Those travelling on "employee perk" tickets usually have less priority than standard pax.... :ooh: (although the onboard service is often better :E)

[fairflyer]

I'd love to see a little man/lady in HMRC trying to chase APD payment after seven days is up, from a multitude of visiting, non-domiciled business jets on say 'offshore' registers, the Russians, Nigerians etc.

If they come after the UK airports or FBOs because that's an easy option, they'll be fighting them in the courts, as they'll all tell them to get stuffed.

If anyone needs to act on behalf of an operator it's probably best to court the flight planning companies assistance rather than airports/FBOs/handlers.

The poor UK-based (and some EU) operators will be easy targets because they are easy to track down, in particular the AOC holders, but all the other non-EU 'private' operators with aircraft titled to some obscure Delaware solicitor's office or a post box in Bermuda, not a hope! Collecting from airlines is easy, collecting from business aviation operators a nightmare!

From the outset, the UK GA industry generally said it would cost more to administer than it will collect in revenues from the GA sector. The easy target operators will be dissadvantaged, the non-EU, more obscure operators will probably get away with not paying and if they try to penalise the handlers for not collecting it, there will be carnage in the courts.

I wonder if say a Russian jet that forgot to pay up on the last visit will be impounded on their next visit to London?

It's a complete joke. Let's have a revue in a year and just see how many non-domiciled visiting jets have paid up as required!

Just a disaster for the UK industry.

[ifonly]

Let's have a revue in a year and just see how many non-domiciled visiting jets have paid up as required!

I'm not sure how having people singing & dancing will help:)
Perhaps we should have a review.

[navstar1]

What a mess! However a good thread as I did not realise it applied to private aircraft as I misread the definition of a chargeable aircraft so will now register for our maximum of two flight from the UK a year! Thank you to the experts:ok: Slightly off thread if you want a real challenge try registering for an operating account for a private aircraft under the EU emission trading scheme an absolute nightmare:(

[cldrvr]

Navstar, tell your boss that we here kept him out of trouble and from receiving a fine. Free legal advise, however have him make a 100 quid donation to a charity on our behalf. Only the right thing to do......

CL

[navstar1]

It will be a pleasure funds on the way to "Age UK" might need it in the not too distant future:sad:

[cldrvr]

PPRuNe at its finest.

[Phill]

I'd love to see a little man/lady in HMRC trying to chase APD payment after seven days is up, from a multitude of visiting, non-domiciled business jets on say 'offshore' registers, the Russians, Nigerians etc.

They don't need too, they just chase the FBO.
Bit of a poor show really, effectively an honesty tax and for non UK operators they don't need to be all that honest as the UK ground handlers will pick up the tab!

Quite a minefield for UK Ficsal Rep's (& Admin Rep's)too, if the OPR cocks up or 'lacks honesty' the Rep get's hit financially instead.
No surprise handlers are not forthcoming to act for OPR's.

As a Fiscal Rep I'd be charging a pretty penny on top of the duty too!

[g450cpt]

Quite a minefield for UK Ficsal Rep's (& Admin Rep's)too, if the OPR cocks up or 'lacks honesty' the Rep get's hit financially instead.
No surprise handlers are not forthcoming to act for OPR's.

Phill

I agree, it is also quite a minefield trying to find someone who will be an administrative rep. I don't mind paying the tax, but why didn't they make it simple? I pay the handler when I pay my other charges, the handler pays HMRS. Couldn't get any more simple than that. I'm not sure why I have to go around looking for someone with a UK address to be my rep when we already have the handlers. Bureaucracy at its finest.

g450cpt

[His dudeness]

They don't need too, they just chase the FBO.

So in fact the FBO needs to check fiscal backgrounds etc of an operator ?

I always thought that HM juristical system is better than ours, but I start to get doubts...

[Phill]

but why didn't they make it simple?HMRC think it is! Sadly they don't always fully understand how things operate at the pointy end.

Collection should have been put to the airports who in turn place the responsibility on the handler along with collecting Landing, Nav & other PAX charges as most currently do.
Simples!

So in fact the FBO needs to check fiscal backgrounds etc of an operator ?Roughly speaking yes. More specifically the OPR's registration and any Fiscal Representation however this wont necessarily protect them, especially from any rogue operators.

I have asked a few Q's of HMRC re the effect on FBO's and await their reply.
Stand down. Outbreak of common sense @HMRC: Handlers will get notice prior being made liable for FUTURE duty & it is NOT RETROSPECTIVE.

As you were!

[Phill]

This doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon!

If anyone needs any help with a Rep I may be able to point you in the direction of some folk wot can help like!

PM me if you need any pointers.