Whats With These RAA Twerps?

[Sunfish]

..Andf the message from the RAA recreational Aviation forum website is:

You have been banned for the following reason: Failure to provide identity information when requested by site administration.

So Sunfish is banned from this website because the Administrator or one of his mates got his knickers in a knot over a thread entitled "too many accidents" in which I made the mild and obvious suggestion that perhaps it might have something to do with the fact that the RAA is the refuge of last resort for the cowboys of this world - the phrase I used was "shallow end of gene pool" and that they needed some way to weed out this part of their population, despite the obvious failure of the GA regulator CASA to weed out Mr. Hempel.

I was asked for my identity - which is something nobody has ever asked me for on the internet. I don't care what his terms of service are. He ain't getting it.

I can only surmise that some RAA members are intensly egotisitical sensitive little flowers, or at least the owner of the website is, and that the RAA really does have a problem with a population of what Michael Ryan of Ryaniar calles "Cloud Bunnies" and "Aerosexuals". This is further born out by the recent "administrative problems" they have had including the grounding of some of their flee t and the inability of some of them to understand the meaning of the words "Corporate Governance" despite my best endeavours.

No loss to me. The standard of discussion there makes me look like an intellectual.

Would I be wrong in thinking that one or Two other Ppruners have incurred this blokes ire?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Ha! A number of us have been banned from that site for years - mostly for highlighting the shortcomings of that sector of aviation.

Welcome to the club Sunny!

[Sunfish]

Get a load of this RAA twerp spinning a Drifter: Section 2.1 of its PH says intentional spins are prohibited. Potential Darwin Award - shallow end of Gene pool.

Maxair Drifter Incipient Spin and recovery - YouTube

[Frank Arouet]

The site has "form".

The owner owns a pilots supply shop.

I have boycotted his business as a way of reprisal after he "censored" to omit some RA-Aus candidates enrolled in a ballot declaration on his site.

A bit like our national broadcaster having a "balanced view" of political matters. I have boycotted them likewise.

I suggest you do the same.:ok:

PS: That's an incipient spin?

That beats the Quadrio video hands down. Is the pilot in jail yet?

[Dexta]

They certainly are a sensitive lot, and it appears most of them are unable to read/comprehend english. I clearly understood your point and what you were trying to convey, but obviously by the responses most of the "forumites" did not. Oh well, I guess that is what you get for sticking your head into the shallow end of the gene pool to see what lurks there.

[spinex]

As is his wont, our sunny little soul has neglected to tell the whole story. He came in out of left field in a discussion and stated that RA was the "shallow end of the gene pool" then proceeded to abuse anyone who responded, whether politely or not. Not surprisingly, this didn't go down well with the predominately RAA membership and the site owner has found his loophole to boot him. I find myself in the unaccustomed position of agreeing with his actions.

Just for the sake of complete disclosure, I too was a member "over there" and although I don't think I was actually banned, I decided to withdraw from active participation on account of the resident serial loon.

[Dexta]

Well, I read his post as saying that (paraphrased) "... those people who get kicked out of GA for being cowboys, can't fly etc. i.e. the shallow end of the gene pool, gravitate to RA-Aus because of the lower minimums, isolated nature etc. and get a certificate and proceed to crash." This is quite different than "everybody who is in RA-Aus is in the shallow end of the gene pool and shouldn't be flying."
I do not know Sunfish from a bar of soap, but I do get annoyed when people cannot read critically what people write and then abuse, sprout off etc. because of a misinterpretation.

[Homesick-Angel]

If its the site I'm thinking of, the owner has a strange habit of contacting people using the site to win support for various qualms or to spruik new wares in his " shop"

I stopped visiting the site some years ago.

I loved my RA days, was fortunate enough to be involved with a great operator/ school that had standards, a great social side and I had a ball but I don't miss that site or the rather bizzarre people that frequented the forums..

[Jack Ranga]

Rip it up'm Sunny :D

[Stacko]

RAA are the lowest form of aviation life... pure and simple.

[Flying Binghi]

Free advertising eh..:hmm:

Heh, ah think ol Sunfish might be in cahoots with the owner of that RAA forum..:}






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[Sunfish]

I stand by what I said: the RAA is the last resort for anyone who gets kicked out of other forms of Aviation or can't afford it. or who is a serial disrespecter of rules and regulations.



I did not say "all RAA members are....." what I said was that non conformists or people who don't take the art of aviation seriously seem able to find a home in the RAA. The RAA, in my opinion, has to deal with this. Furthermore, the business model of annual registration fees and annual dues is problematic in this respect because it contains the potential for the RAA not to look too closely at the bona fides of owner and operator in the interests of funding. Before you get incensed, this is not to say that this is happening or that any member of the RAA Board or management would countanence such a practice. It is instead a risk that the Board of the RAA needs to make sure is addressed.

Futhermore I am aware of at least one great aviator (Ian Mc.Ritchie) who made a home in RAA after losing his medical.

Post in entirety:



I'm looking from the outside. I have a PPL. I spent Six years as a staff engineer at Ansett in its haydays. I also worked for a few years at Hawker Dehavilland / Fishermans Bend on military and civil projects. I didn't take up recreational flying until later in life and I love it. I'm building something now and I'm doing it to as close as I can to Boeing specs. Yes it will end up heavy (mainly through sealant and paint) and it will be equipped with the best gear money can buy. I do it this way because I want to focus on flying all the time, not focussiing on whether something is going to hold together, or that niggling engine rattle, or that vibration from somewhere. I do not believe holding a PPL makes me a superior breed.

What gets my goat are the absolute plonkers that seem to take the RAA as an easy way out. This is not to say they aren't in GA as well, but GA has something called CASA which has big enough teeth to scare some of the plonkers sufficiently enough to try to behave. By plonkers I mean people who don't understand that safety is a state of mind.

The first lot of plonkers are the daredevils. Few in GA own an aircraft. It is a relatively simple matter in GA once detected to remove daredevil pilots via restricting their ability to fly via club or CASA... or they remove themselves from the population, unfortunately sometimes taking someone with them.

Then there are the "it costs too much" brigade that try and make do with unsuitable or badly maintained crap.

Then there are the "theoreticians" who repudiate a hundred years of aviation lore and design in favour of their own crackpot ideas of what constitutes safe Aviation. They won't learn because what you are trying to tell them disagrees with their own notions. They differ from true innovators and experimenters because those groups understand and manage risk actively. The Theoreticians don't even understand the risks, let alone manage them. How many times have you heard one of them opine that instrument flying "can't possibly be all that difficult"?

I remember seeing a powered parachute trike on a trailer in country Victoria and thinking that I wouldn't let my worst enemy fly in this. Then there was the time sitting on a verandah watching a tandem trike try and takeoff from a too short field, in the bottom of a vee shaped valley, surrounded by tall timber. after Four tries he made it and flew straight into the waiting power lines. Luckily the ground below was freshly ploughed.

The problem for the RAA is that you guys are the association of last resort for the pilots at the bottom of the food chain - the shallow end of the Gene pool, and I don't know how you deal with it.

Anyway, I'm just a boring old fart, hopefully cognisant of my aviation failings, so feel free to ignore me.

[tecman]

Sunfish...I understand the point you're making and in fact share a number of of your concerns. I don't see the need to have made it in as insulting a fashion as you did.

My background is PPL GA - nearly 30 yrs of it. I've enjoyed it all, and associated with some great people and excellent pilots, at all levels of qualification. But I've met some terrible boofheads, too. Every bit (and more) as dangerous as the loons you describe. Sometimes CASA gets them, sometimes not. Aircraft ownership is a very weak filter indeed.

A few years ago I decided to get RAA membership, largely to have a go at some of the nice, small aircraft now around. I had very little to do with the 'ultralight' community before then, so didn't go into it with many pre-conceived ideas. My observation is that the biggest worry is variability in RA pilot standards: some are trained by the same guys training GA pilots and, barring a detailed knowledge of controlled airspace etc, fall into my "good" pilot category. I've also seen some "bad" pilots and, with the bit of interrogation I've done, I believe most of them are well meaning people who have been poorly trained. And then there are the cowboys. RA has its share of these but, boy, GA sure does too.

As I write this I'm reminded of two experiences in the last week: (i) the RA pilot who clearly was struggling to get anything like a standard circuit entry call at YMUL and (ii) the GA pilot in the Cherokee who hadn't bothered to find out the correct circuit direction. One was mildly inconvenient but a bit amusing; the other required full on evasive action on a cross-wind departure. I know there are many other incidents one can quote which favour one or other sides of the argument, but forgive me if I'm not rushing to GA's defence right now.

I enjoy everything I fly and endeavour to do it all to a uniformly high standard. I don't think it's particularly constructive to be labelling people by their sector membership. May I point out that GA hasn't had a great month accident-wise, and that there're plenty of people willing to take pot-shots at "those private pilots". Over the years I've heard some higher licence grade pilots have a go at that one, too. Again though, their blanket statements are just as fallacious as the GA vs RA ones. It's all about individuals, not two-bob snobbery.

[VH-XXX]

..And the message from the RAA recreational Aviation forum website is:

Sunfish and others, it needs to be made perfectly clear that the Recreational Flying forum that you speak of is in NO WAY AFFILIATED with Recreational Aviation Australia the organisation. The only similarities are that the word "Recreational" is in the title.

[VH-XXX]

Get a load of this RAA twerp spinning a Drifter: Section 2.1 of its PH says intentional spins are prohibited. Potential Darwin Award - shallow end of Gene pool.

If I'm not mistaken that shallow end of the gene pool and his innocent passenger subsequently died in that aircraft shortly after that video was taken. One of his videos showed them taxiing out to takeoff with the wife of the deceased pilot holding a young baby that was crying and off he went do so some more illegal flying. From memory the aircraft had an allegedly shady background, had been under salt water and was extensively corroded around the swages.

[Arnold E]

and it will be equipped with the best gear money can buy.

Er, weren't you whinging on another thread about putting a second radio in your aircraft at a lousy $1200. Is this the same bloke??

[Flying Binghi]

Heh, Sunfish perhaps yer want to avoid Footscray for a while..:}

From the other forum - #44 ...That is simply fact like saying that poor people live in Redfern or Footscray...

[Flying Binghi]

Its quiet the fascinating thread over at the pond..:)

......My experience was that Ab Initio training only ceased when the wind was gusting around 30 knots - although one day like that I went up for the "fly backwards" trick in a C150...

naughty, naughty..:=



.....:ok:








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[Fliegenmong]

Interesting vid of the Drifter spinning.....that's what it looks like when you keep it going eh?

Many many moons ago I had an Ex DC9/727 Checky with the company that Sunny used to work for as an instructor....he taught me stall and spin recovery in a Drifter....

I can tell you it was very valuable training, and because of it I never needed to use it!!! We'd basically stall to incipient spin and recover...and recover...damn fast! Personally, I used to go back periodically to have myself 'checked' out, peace of mind thing....

I actually don't think unusual attitude recovery training is a bad thing, but doubtless countless threads about that before! :ouch:

You'd never get anywhere in a hurry in a Drifter, and you can damn wet in 'em as well (or on them:rolleyes:) but as a pure stick and rudder aircraft they were a joy to fly, a magnificent machine to demonstrate adverse yaw in (on), and of course you learnt early what the rudder pedals were really for :ok:....

But this was all back in the AUF day, before RAA

[Sunfish]

Bing hi we go to Thinh An in Footscray every few weeks. great cheap food. we take a Landcruiser because the parking involves "colorful" individuals.

maybe we need a Footscray flyers lunch group?

[VH-XXX]

Interesting vid of the Drifter spinning.....that's what it looks like when you keep it going eh?

That guy kept going and the aircraft fell apart!


Sunny, empty your PM inbox, I've got sum stuff to send ya!

[Sunfish]

Bing hi we go to Thinh An in Footscray every few weeks. great cheap food. we take a Landcruiser because the parking involves "colorful" individuals.

maybe we need a Footscray flyers lunch group?

[Kodachrome]

To borrow (bastardise) a quote from Samuel Johnson, RAA is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

[Fliegenmong]

"That guy kept going and the aircraft fell apart!"

Just talking (typing) out loud........Spin, wings are stalled, 1g until 3rd part of recovery (pull out), equals 'G' that is above above '1'......not a spiral dive, 'G' increasing with airspeed, wings most certainly NOT stalled....

Still a whole heap of freaking fun the Drifter!! Once heard (Bruce McGarvey?), perhaps not, the stick and rudder qualities of a Drifter and a Tiger Mother were very similar, both had an ability to bite! (Tiger)

[RatsoreA]

I care not either way as for the content of this thread, but even I know you don't walk into the rebels motorcycle clubhouse and call the a bunch of scum low lifes and then complain bitterly when someone embeds a pry bar in the back of your head?! :hmm:

[Fliegenmong]

Hhhmmmm, well put rat's arse....

[Ultralights]

I care not either way as for the content of this thread, but even I know you don't walk into the rebels motorcycle clubhouse and call the a bunch of scum low lifes and then complain bitterly when someone embeds a pry bar in the back of your head?!

my thoughts exactly.... :ok: