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Tee Emm
26th Mar 2013, 11:51
Refer to ENR 1-1-31. The title is Non-Standard Circuit Operations and states among other things "Pilots must advise ATC of non-standard operations eg glide and flapless landings normally with the downwind report.

Further it states ATC must always be advised of single engine aircraft conducting simulated engine failure at the earliest opportunity.

It is common practice when conducting a practice glide approach to close the throttle when at circuit height, shortly before turning on to base from the downwind leg. It simulates the late downwind position of a forced landing without power. This technique is almost universally conducted by flying schools at Moorabbin during dual instruction with the aim of familiarising the student with the expected lateral and descent vertical flight profile when engine power is not available. When the instructor judges the right spot on downwind is reached he most likely will close the throttle on his student and say "try and get in from here". Whether or not students are permitted to do this exercise when solo in the circuit is up to company SOP. .

That aside, ATC also require notification of single engine aircraft conducting simulated engine failure asap. This presumably refers to practice engine failure on climb after take off. It could also be argued that it applies to anywhere in the circuit since the AIP does not differentiate where the simulated engine failure starts from, before ATC need to know about it.

Since the guiding principle in practicing a glide approach at Moorabbin is to give the student forced landing practice with no power, perhaps the term "glide approach" to ATC is no longer valid and should be notified for example as "Downwind - Simulated engine failure". After all, that is true. This also alerts other circuit traffic to the true nature of the exercise which is to practice the last part of a practice forced landing. It also has the advantage of allowing following aircraft to space themselves and avoid cutting inside the aircraft doing the practice forced landing?

Hempy
26th Mar 2013, 11:55
Is that ^^ a question or a comment?

poonpossum
26th Mar 2013, 12:06
Ey? I don't know about you, but a glide approach and a simulated engine failure are synonyms. If you have your power on, you aren't gliding.

If you have no engine power, you are gliding.

Perhaps the only difference would be that of a truly windmilling, not idling propeller. But you ain't gonna simulate that unless you pull the mixture, which is probably a bad idea.

Sunfish
26th Mar 2013, 19:30
At YMMB we always said "request glide approach" which in my experience was always granted. Moorrabin is a very busy place and its highly inconsiderate to add to the Towers workload in my opinion.

I also don't believe using the words "engine failure" in a call to the Tower is a good idea because if the word "simulated" is lost or missed then you are again increasing stress. The Tower wants to know some idea of your intended flight path, not which lesson you are practicing.

MikeTangoEcho
26th Mar 2013, 21:32
But the reason the request is made is so that tower can assess and decide whether there is enough room for you to cut inside someone else's circuit. Nobody doing a normal circuit would cut inside a glide approach, I would hope (??). If an aircraft is turning final, chances are you'll hear 'not available'. If you're mid downwind and you're following late downwind, you'll probably hear 'make number 1, cleared touch and go' etc etc. I think it's another if it ain't broke things. Changing the words won't be of any benefit.

Homesick-Angel
27th Mar 2013, 00:57
The words, in this case don't matter... Everyone understands what it means..
And I agree with a previous poster that should the start of a transmission be clipped you may only hear the words no one wants to hear.

In my opinion its not worth requesting it unless you are clearly number 1 or the aircraft in front was on short final.. ( or doing reeeeely wide 747 circuits which never happens at ymmb)

Can be used to create space behind if there is clag early on downwind.