Making the Jump to Twins

[poonpossum]

I’m just seeking any potential advise on making the jump to twin IFR ops from a current single engine charter job with no other aircraft or room for progression.

So far, I envisage the need to join a larger company that operates both single engine and multi engine aircraft, and then having to prove my worth there in a single before having the chance to upgrade.

Would you agree that it would be quite unlikely that one could jump from 700 – 1000 hours in a single, onto a twin IFR aircraft?

My current mindset that I might be able to make the jump directly, but in perhaps a cargo operation or one that does not take passengers, as I assume that the insurance requirements would be potentially less to operate cargo only operations?

Perhaps another avenue would be to try for twin operators who fly VFR, and gain some twin experience there.

Either way, I’m going to have to hustle myself another job towards the end of this year. Those are my current thoughts but I really don’t know, hence the post. So any wisdom would be much appreciated. How you did it, any stories, whether my thoughts or on or off the mark and anything else :)

[Avgas172]

nevertheless, advice should be better on your resume'

[Horatio Leafblower]

Would you agree that it would be quite unlikely that one could jump from 700 – 1000 hours in a single, onto a twin IFR aircraft?

I think I got out of the Cherokee and into a Chieftain with about 800 hours. Right place right time, right contacts.

Most operators will expect you to move on after 1000-odd hours SE. You seem to have given yourself plenty of good advice above anyway.

Good luck!

[BleedingAir]

This isn't really advice, but for the record, I started flying M/E IFR pax charter at a little over 400 TT. Which isn't saying anything except reinforcing what others have said - right place, right time, combined with the right type of person, and more often than not, via a personal recommendation (networking is everything!).

700-1000 TT is sufficient if some or all of the above are met.

[poonpossum]

Woah man, that's pretty epic from 400TT.

And thanks for the replies so far guys. I'll be sure to keep networking and keep hustling.

I'm in a remote area at the moment so most of my hustle will be via correspondence. I'm thinking if my SE hours get over a thousand I'll just have to start driving again :)

[Unusual-Attitude]

Clear that 1000 hr mark in anything without bending it and a lot more doors will open.

If a twin gig happens to fall in your lap...great, but don't sweat on it...keep chalking up the incident free hours and it'll happen.

There's no big rush...1000 hrs is FA in the grand scheme of things, and the future for drivers doesn't look too bad at all. There'll be a seat for you somewhere if you stick with it.

Good luck.

[Compylot]

Have you considered some of the ICUS programs around?

I got my first few hundred hours on twins after applying and then being accepted into an ICUS program with a freight operator. These programs offer ICUS hours at a small cost which IMHO is worth the initial outlay as they are a guaranteed way to build twin time. (The program I was in cost about as much as an instructor rating but over the course of six months I gained nearly 100 hours in a PA-31!)

[wishiwasupthere]

Paying for ICUS.......:ugh:

[MadMadMike]

How your tune changed...

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/446922-journos-had-enough-dodgy-charter-aircraft-2.html#post6337016

Seems like you were bagging pay for ICUS in 2011 Compylot... but now :eek:

oh and also noticed you suggesting earlier paying for some 'heavy single' time :sad:

You are exactly what is wrong with this industry and why it will only get worse! You paid to fly a 210, then paid to fly a chieftain... You PAID ~$15000 to fly 100 hours in a **** box. 100 hours twin is NOTHING - 100 hours paid ICUS is embarrassing and would have me throwing your CV to the dog.

I guarantee you will pay for a 'jet' endorsement because so far you have paid for everything else.

Here's an idea, work hard, take opportunity when they present themselves and learn along the way. Keep your money in your pocket.. or wait its not your money, it's mummy and daddy's.

on and for those wanting a laugh... At least now I know who you are next time you sit next to me on a burner ;)

Hi guys,

I am a recent professional commercial pilot (CPL, MEIFR Grade 3).

In regard to

Quote:
as others could mistake you for someone of who is in a position of responsibility for the duty of care on the flight (in the event of an emergency where there's confusion etc).
As a recent addition to that of the league of professional aviator, I have from day one been taught that whenever I am around aircraft, airports or an aviation environment to act as one would expect from a commercial pilot!

Last week I paxed from Sydeny to Melbourne for my neices christening, and even though I was off duty I wore my full uniform consisting of standard white epaulette shirt, 2 bars, wings, blue pants and of course appropriately displayed ASIC.

The cabin crew on that flight were more than accomodating and thankful that they had an aviation porfessional in the emergency exit row, secure in the knowledge I had the capability and experience to direct pax in an emergency!

One of the passenegers next to me even asked me some questions on the briefing card and I helpfully pointed out some details!

So, I think that there is nothing wrong at all, in fact it is beneficial for professional aircrew to be appropriately identifiable when paxing on RPT services!

[solowflyer]

A little ICUS to maybe solidify an ir rating but F$&k me paying to build hours:ugh::ugh::ugh:.... PP think you will just have to take the plunge and head back to civilization once your over 1000. Give plenty of notice and leave current employer on good terms you never know they may be able to point you to your next job if you don't rock the boat too much.

[anothertwit]

The program I was in cost about as much as an instructor rating but over the course of six months I gained nearly 100 hours in a PA-31!

Bloody hell! no wonder pilots as a group get screwed over all the time! :ugh::mad:

As for the OP, stick with your current gig and hit ya 1,000 hrs, in my experience it helped a lot to get my first twin IFR gig.

[Wally Mk2]

God many years ago ya couldn't even sniff the seats of a PA31 unless ya had 2000hrs!
Oh how times have changed & obviously for the better as I recall I was ready to fly a space shuttle when I had 50 hrs:E And no I am not a relative of the other guy here who is making a fool of himself!


Wmk2

[Aerozepplin]

Luckily from past experience I think Compylot is simply a cave dwelling figure from Norse mythology. Some of his old stuff about "heavy singles" was pretty funny. Although be careful how much you drink Compy, or they'll end up looking like a light single, and you might wake up with some regrets.

[dreamer84]

Still trying to decide if Compylot is having the world's biggest wind-up or not. Hard to tell.

[Oakape]

and of course appropriately displayed ASIC.Hey buddy, don't you know that you are not allowed to display your ASIC airside unless you are on duty & operating. Not even paxing on duty is acceptable.

[Wally Mk2]

'rm' did I tell ya that years ago ya had to borrow someone else's nose to sniff the PA31 seats:E

I recall that Monty P skit, very funny:ok:

Wmk2

[Cessna Capt]

Last week I paxed from Sydeny to Melbourne for my neices christening, and even though I was off duty I wore my full uniform consisting of standard white epaulette shirt, 2 bars, wings, blue pants and of course appropriately displayed ASIC.

The cabin crew on that flight were more than accomodating and thankful that they had an aviation porfessional in the emergency exit row, secure in the knowledge I had the capability and experience to direct pax in an emergency!

One of the passenegers next to me even asked me some questions on the briefing card and I helpfully pointed out some details!

So, I think that there is nothing wrong at all, in fact it is beneficial for professional aircrew to be appropriately identifiable when paxing on RPT services!

You would know bugger all. Have you done the safety and emergency procedures course for that type of aircraft? Have you be trained and assessed in how to conduct an evacuation?

[dhavillandpilot]

Cessna Captain.

As you get further into your career you will quickly learn.

Take off the wank gear, and blend into the pax hoard.

The only time I have ever worn a uniform specifically to get attention is flying thru the middle east and India. No uniform equals problems.

[Compylot]

Well pointed out dhavillandpilot.

Cessna Capt, as you get further into your career you will understand.

The evacuation procedures of a Cessna are vastly different to that which is required in a modern airliner :ugh:

[poonpossum]

Bro. I mean. I appreciate the advice, although it made me throw up in my mouth a little bit, but anyone that thinks that paying for ICUS is a good idea is delusional.

I hope that emoticon is a picture of you banging your head against the wall, constantly repeating to yourself, "why oh why did I make myself apart of the problem, and pay to operate as crew on revenue charters?"

[Compylot]

As a professional aircrew member my number one responsibility rests with the safe carriage of my fare paying passengers.

I can guarantee you that every single one of those fare paying passengers would appreciate that I have had the dedication to invest in my training by having purchased quality hours in a heavy cabin class piston twin engine aircraft prior to buying my Airbus or Boeing endorsement.

I bang my head at your inability to understand this concept :ugh:

[j3pipercub]

Trolololololol

[LadyLlamapilot]

Compylot, it seems like a very expensive process all this purchasing flying time to work. Have you now got a job flying what you want?
Being a business owner myself, it is all about making the numbers stack up. Return on investment, etc etc. What have you calculated your return on investment to be? How much time must you work to recoup the additional cost of paying to go to work initially, and how much of a head start has it given you compared with your fellow aviators who have just taken a job with an operator that pays you to fly their aircraft?

[Compylot]

LadyLlamapilot,

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings....

[LadyLlamapilot]

Haha, I like your style!!:ok:

[Aeromuz]

dhavillandpilot and Compylot I think you mis understood what Cessna Capt was saying. Im sure he was saying wearing you uniform on a pax ride just makes you look like a giant bell end and that you would have no idea what the EPs for the type was unless you were endorsed in it.

The evacuation procedures of a Cessna are vastly different to that which is required in a modern airliner :ugh:

I would be careful to make assumptions of someones experience based on their pprune handle.

Having said that after seeing some of your posts Compylot you sir are a ****!! While I can appreciate at times we have to put our hands in our pockets it shound not be for getting time up unless you private hire the aircraft and get actual command time not this ICUS bullsh!t.

I can guarantee you that every single one of those fare paying passengers would appreciate that I have had the dedication to invest in my training by having purchased quality hours in a heavy cabin class piston twin engine aircraft prior to buying my Airbus or Boeing endorsement.

Heads up buddy, your passengers dont know what your experience is!!(unless you want to bore the sh!t out of them). They assume you are able to do the job because you are sitting at the pointy end. They just care about getting from A to B. Your experince in the actual aircraft at the time is what matters not some "heavy cabin class" time that you paid for...and what the hell is that anyway sounds like w@nk to me!! Twins are twins P68 or C404 or PA31 it doent matter when you get into a jet!!!

oh I almost forgot....as you get further into your career you will understand. :mad:

[BleedingAir]

Love your work Compylot.

Can't believe you guys are biting this hard.

[metrosmoker]

Faaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk! I just realised what I am doing wrong trying to get into an airline.

I wrote on my resume that I have 1300hrs multi command. When what I should have wrote is that I have 1050hrs on cabin class heavy piston twins. I'm such a d!ckhead.

Your a clown. A piston twin is a piston twin. As for a cabin class, F^%k me what a joke.
That ranks up there with-:

"I have heavy single time". Translates to, I`ve flown a C210.

"I have real bush experience". This one is tricky. It generaly means, I have done a CPL NAV to Goulburn and landed on the grass strip. It may also mean you have been messing around with the locals on one of the communities up north.