Qantaslink - Recruitment and Progression

[Bugsmash]

I've read most of the previous threads on QLink for recruitment and progression, so have a reasonably good idea of the benefits and unhappiness that comes with the job. I'm considering throwing my mid 40s well paid job with the internal office and no window for a gig in general and/or regional aviation - at least aircraft have windows.

I'm looking for an update on recruitment and progression - preferably from someone in the know.

1. What hours are 1st officers generally being recruited at for direct entry?

I appreciate that they take a wide range of people from direct entry and two types of traineeships and that recruitment is dependent upon the all types of testing etc.. But, what is the amount of hours that they really start to consider you at? I haven't heard of anyone getting a gig with only 700 total time - but it might happen. I expect that it is more likely to be 1500hrs min with 3 CIR renews.

Any ideas?

2. What is the expected time for progression to CPT?

Again, I appreciate that this all depends on where the vacancies are and what the market is doing, but just wanting to know whether captain within 5 years is possible.

3. Melbourne Basing

Finally, with recruitment spots more prevelant in Qld and NSW, how difficult and competitive is it to get a Melbourne slot and does this slow progression to CPT? I expect that CPT would need to be obtained in another base and then transfer when a vacancy exists. So how much movement is there in Melbourne? I understand that Mildura is pretty static.

I'm looking at Qlink, as I'm in my 40s and if I ever got into jets, I think it would be a career as a 1st officer (nothing wrong with that though..).


Cheers,

Bugsmash

[pull-up-terrain]

I'm in kind of a similar situation as you but I'm in my 50's (but a lame). If I get made redundant (which is likely to happen in the next 5 years if things dont improve) I wouldn't mind getting into GA. I don't know what your chances are like getting into Qantaslink in your 40's, but I know a lot of GA operators who would prefer to take on someone your age rather than someone in there 20's. BUT you will have to be willing to work somewhere outside of a capital city for a few years before getting a gig at bankstown airport for example unless you are lucky and have good contacts.

[muffman]

I know a number of guys at QLink who are on their second careers, having started flying in their 30s/40s. They are certainly not the majority of new FOs, but equally I suspect they're not the majority of applicants either. It is an option worth pursuing because QLink are a very good employer.

1. What hours are 1st officers generally being recruited at for direct entry?
My impression is that the recruitment department is more interested in other aspects of your application than how many hours you have. There is an enormous variation in the experience levels of FOs entering the company from shiny new CPL/IR holders through to former Captains of other airlines. So when you're assessing your own chances, I think it is worth looking at the package you offer rather than just how many hours or IR renewals you have. Keep in mind that an inexperienced FO is more likely to stick around for a while because they're less employable elsewhere and that has significant value to the company.

If you meet the requirements for the trainee program, I would suggest using that option. Better to see if you can jump through all the hoops of the recruitment process before spending the time / money qualifying for direct entry only to be pitted against far more experienced applicants.

2. What is the expected time for progression to CPT?
There are two main things that determine this. One is your experience level prior to joining the company, and the other is the number of vacancies for Captains. To apply for a vacancy, you obviously need to meet the minimum experience requirements. This could take you 5-7 years if you come in with little / no experience. If you already meet most of the requirements prior to joining, it all depends on how many vacancies come up versus how many people above you on the list are eligible to apply.

In certain bases, for the past couple of years, the level of expansion has led to some very quick promotions for experienced FOs. At the moment, for the QLD bases, the most junior Captains have been in the company around 2 years. In PER the most junior are about 2.5 years. Sydney is about 3+ years. MEL 6 years. Mildura 10+ years.

Is it achievable within 5 years? Probably, unless things slow down. But maybe not in your preferred city or on your preferred fleet.

3. Melbourne Basing
Keep in mind there is no effective way to transfer between QLD and NSW/VIC/WA bases due to them having separate AOCs and seniority lists. If MEL is your goal, getting a quick command in BNE or CNS won't help you at all. You need to stick to SYD/MEL/PER/MQL.


My impression is that Melbourne is a pretty quiet base progression-wise. A lot of fairly senior drivers and not a huge amount of expansion. Others may have more info on that subject.

Hope this helps.

[Oktas8]

With regard to getting a Melbourne base, it's not hard to get into Melbourne as an FO. Perhaps one to two years seniority required, but not more. For a captaincy, it's as muffman said.

You could of course transfer to Melbourne as an FO quite early on, and just sit there waiting for enough seniority to upgrade without moving to another base. It has been done!

[Bugsmash]

Thanks for the replies and feedback.

Now, I just have to get comfortable with the level of income ($60K) for a FO and remind myself I'm not doing it for the money...

[Bugsmash]

The QLink website (for both DE FO and Traineeship) requires HSC with Maths adn English (which I don't have) OR a fully completed bachelor degree in any discipline.

Higher School Certificate (documentation required), with passes in suitable Year 12 Maths and English - approved bridging courses will be considered, or;
A fully completed Bachelor Degree in any discipline.

So, this apparently means that if you have a degree, you don;t need to worry about bridging courses for maths???

I presume the logic is that if you can get through a degree in any discipline and get as far as ATPL theory, then you don't need a bridging course for maths?

[Di_Vosh]

All the above sounds about right.

muffman is pretty much on the money in his/her respones.

a couple of addditions...

1. What hours are 1st officers generally being recruited at for direct entry?

IMHO, if you meet the relevant minimums they'll be interested in you. If you've got the DE minima's then apply for DE.

Perhaps there are non-flying related reasons that not many 700 hour pilots are getting through an interview.

Qlink are interviewing constantly but they have a low success rate in the interview/sim process. Some of the reasons for this have been discussed before, but IMHO if you're currently flying, are IFR current and you can demonstrate maturity in the interview then you've got a good chance of getting a gig.


2. What is the expected time for progression to CPT?

IIRC, one of the requirements for a captaincy is 2000TE. Depending on your base/fleet you may not fly more than 500 hours per year. FO's in the ICUS program are getting around 75%, so it could easily take a 300 hour pilot five years to get that box ticked.

I think the 'record' as it were for fast upgrade was just under 12 months from DOJ, and there've been a few guys get upgraded within 18 months. But you're talking very experienced pilots here.

Once you meet the requirements, it shouldn't be too long before a vacancy becomes available, provided you're prepared to move base/fleet/company for a Captains position.

3. Melbourne Basing

Turnover in the Melbourne base is very slow. Mainly because the lifestyle is great, relatively stable shifts, generally an older (i.e. more settled) crew, etc.

In my time at Qlink about the only time there are large movements of people into MEL is when new routes/aircraft are established. Otherwise you're only looking at a few people per year.

It is possible to get a Mel base as an FO from the time you join, but very unlikely. I'm only saying it's possible because it happened last year (for the first time in over 5 years) but I'm not holding my breath for when it will happen again. The most common route taken to get to Mel is to be based in Mildura. FO turnover in Mildura is relatively high, and a new Mildura FO can expect anywhere between 6 months to 2 years to get a Melbourne gig.

Captain turnover in Melbourne is very slow. I'm the most junior Melbourne Captain and I was in the company for around 4 1/2 years before I got upgraded.

Captain turnover in Mildura is zero.



Not sure if that's any comfort to you, but that's how it is atm.

DIVOSH!

[LongLats]

Sorry to blow into this thread with my own question, I know it's not helpful for OP, but I was wondering if any of you QLink guys could shed any light on transferring between bases on different AOCs.

Say for instance, I just started working for QantasLink and I wanted to get based in Sydney, but there are no openings in Sydney right now however loads of spots in Brisbane/Cairns and Perth. Would I be better off putting my base preferences down as Perth over Brisbane in order to get on the Eastern AOC hence expediting my transfer to Sydney?

I've heard that transferring between bases on the same AOC happens a lot quicker than if you're transferring between Sunstate and Eastern. If this is true, any idea roughly what the waiting time difference is?

[Di_Vosh]

Don't confuse AOC's and employing entities. One has no relevance to the other in the context of your question.

If you're employed by Qlink and based at either Brisbane or Cairns you'll be employed by Sunstate Airlines. The Sunstate EBA applies to you and you'll be placed on the Sunstate Seniority list.

If you're based at either Sydney, Melbourne, Mildura or Perth you'll be employed by Eastern Airlines. The Eastern EBA applies to you and you'll be placed on the Eastern Seniority list.

Pilots transferring to bases 'belonging' to the other company is relatively common. The consequence for the pilot involved is that they'll be placed at the bottom of the new seniority list as they're considered to be "new" employees of that company. Entitlements such as staff travel, long service leave accrual, etc, are kept as they're transportable within the group.

Upgrades/downgrades/fleet transfers may or may not happen; generally only if requested by the pilot (e.g. a Sunstate Q400 FO successfully transferred to Eastern as a Classic FO and a few Sunstate FO's transferred to Eastern to be Captains).

Having said that, it is a simpler process to transfer between Eastern bases than to cross companies. The previous resource manager created a "few issues" in a number of previous cross-company transfers but he's since been replaced. Time will tell how it goes in the future.

Difference in waiting time? How long is a piece of string?

In answer to your question, My advice is not to second-guess and request your base in order of where you want to be based. Be prepared for none of your requests to be honoured and to be based in the most inconvenient (for you) location.

DIVOSH!

[TexanPilot]

DIVOSH is on the money. Put down the preferences that you want. If you don't get your base your best bet is to put in a standing bid for the base you prefer as soon as your employed because then it won't matter about losing the seniority (because you'll be at the bottom anyway).

[WannaBeBiggles]

Resurrecting an old thread, but wondering what the Melbourne base is like now, especially given that there is more attrition than the last few years?

[Going Nowhere]

Seems to be a very slow moving base so probably expect at least a 4 year wait for an F/O slot, much longer for a CPT slot.

99% of the attrition in the Eastern bases is coming from SYD.

[Di_Vosh]

The Melbourne base is still the most sought after base in Eastern.

It's all Q400 now, and I'm still the most junior Captain there. When the Q300 left almost two years ago I was too junior to remain a captain in Melbourne. I came back to Melbourne as a Q400 Captain in September last year. I've been at Qlink a few weeks shy of 8 years.

IIRC, something like 9 of the 10 most senior Eastern FO's are based in Melbourne (Haven't looked at a seniority list lately but I wouldn't be too far off). None of these guys/girls want to relocate to Sydney for a command.
Turnover is very slow. We have one or two Qantas cadets who are Captains who may go to mainline within the next "whenever", and one or two Captains who may retire in the next few years, but that's about it.

Without any major expansion (or a paradigm shift in management policy) you can forget about being a Melbourne based Captain any time soon if you're not a current Qlink pilot.

As far as FO's go, you'd probably get a basing here within three to four years. Possibly a little earlier, but it's really a gamble. You could luck out and get a basing here straight away, or wait four years.

DIVOSH!

[mikewil]

[QUOTE]As far as FO's go, you'd probably get a basing here within three to four years. Possibly a little earlier, but it's really a gamble. You could luck out and get a basing here straight away, or wait four years./QUOTE]

How many pilots do they have based in the smaller Eastern bases like Adelaide & Mildura?

I can't imagine it would be many given the limited routes that are operated out of these.

What is it like getting a start in one of these over Sydney?

[Di_Vosh]

Adelaide is Sunstate. You don't want to request a basing in Adelaide if your goal is to end up in Melbourne.

Mildura has 5 Captains and 5 FO's (mostly). Generally speaking, the FO's want to end up in Melbourne and the Captains are happy in Mildura.

DIVOSH!

[Going Nowhere]

The way things are at the moment, if you got into QLink there's a 90% chance you'd end up in BNE or SYD.

[QNH1020]

Would anyone be able to share some information on possible up coming courses. Been on the "active hold file" for a while and no luck on a course, even though I'm guessing recruitment is still on going. Cheers.

[Fonz121]

And a 99.9% chance you'll never work at mainline or Jet* in the future. If your endgame is to fly a jet in Aus. go to VARA instead. Working at Qlink severely limits your career progression these days.

[lee_apromise]

And a 99.9% chance you'll never work at mainline or Jet* in the future. If your endgame is to fly a jet in Aus. go to VARA instead. Working at Qlink severely limits your career progression these days.

How so? Care to elaborate? Genuinely curious about this statement as a person trying to get back home.

[dibloc]

The way things are at the moment, if you got into QLink there's a 90% chance you'd end up in BNE

Q400 or Classic?

[Cessna Jockey]

How so? Care to elaborate? Genuinely curious about this statement as a person trying to get back home.

Far cheaper to employ someone from the outside than to steal a pilot from a subsidiary to fill a spot within J* or Q mainline. Otherwise you now have to train TWO pilots instead of one?

I'm sure you'll see a post or two preaching how times are changing because 50 something cadets just received offers to go across to Qantas mainline, but they were part of the original Qantas mainline cadetship a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away. There were no jobs for them at the time so they were banished to the Dash.

Qantas is run by penny pinching accountants, not pilots. Training costs money.

[Going Nowhere]

Dinloc,

The next few ground schools are for the Q400 and people have already been notified of this. After that, it's meant to be only classic. But who knows.

Everyone will end up on the Q400 in the next few years anyway. QLD-based probably sooner than SYD/ADL.

[Density]

And a 99.9% chance you'll never work at mainline or Jet* in the future. If your endgame is to fly a jet in Aus. go to VARA instead. Working at Qlink severely limits your career progression these days.

Why would you offer such misinformed and delusional information?? Have you seen what progression VARA are offering particularly in the future? Besides flying a jet isn't the be all and end all...yeah it is good for first 2 months then it is boring as rocking horse poo. Much rather fly turboprops in and out of regionals and capital cities.

[outoftime]

Would anyone be able to share some information on possible up coming courses. Been on the "active hold file" for a while and no luck on a course, even though I'm guessing recruitment is still on going. Cheers.

I've heard some people were called this week for courses starting late April. Hope that helps.