View Full Version : N26DK Premier 1A crash Mar 17 2013 KSBN


robbreid
18th Mar 2013, 00:20
Premier 1A N26DK crashed on approach to South Bend Indiana KSBN around 16:15 today.

https://twitter.com/bizjet101/status/313426394296242177

Aircraft crashes into house near South Bend airport - Local News - Indianapolis, IN | NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51218534/ns/local_news-indianapolis_in/#.UUZ0b1eLzs0)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFmBvbfCcAAHpk_.jpg



robbreid
18th Mar 2013, 00:34
News Coverage; BREAKING NEWS: Premier jet crashes near South Bend Regional Airport (http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/Breaking-News-Plane-crash-near-airport-198693261.html)

Silvio Pettirossi
18th Mar 2013, 00:40
Its the third Premier crash in less than one month!:eek:

Tray Surfer
18th Mar 2013, 03:17
Sad news... Never nice to hear of an incident in the aviation community.

sevenstrokeroll
18th Mar 2013, 03:42
URL for PICT:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/03/plane-crashes-into-south-bend-in-neighborhood/



Two people have died and at least three others were injured today when a

small plane crashed into a neighborhood near an airport in South Bend,

Ind., according to a Federal Aviation Administration spokesman.



The pilot of the Hawker Beachcraft Premier 1 twin-jet plane, which had

taken offİfrom Tulsa, Okla.,İradioed the tower to report electrical

problems while on approach to South Bend Regional Airport.



The plane crashed into the neighborhood, hitting three houses before

finally coming to a stop, lodged in a house.



FAA spokesman Roland Herwig in Oklahoma City said there were four people

on the plane, and two of them have died.



South Bend Memorial Hospital spokeswoman Maggie Scroope told The

Associated Press that three people injured in the crash were being

treated there. She said one was in serious condition and two were in

fair condition, but did not know whether they were on the plane or the

ground.



The crash shattered the calm of a Sunday afternoon in the quiet

residential neighborhood.



We thought a house was on fire on the next street, cause it was just

blowing and it was like ash that was going through the air, little

pieces, saidİFlorence Retek, who lives nearby. It was a loud noise and

it sounded like a truck had crashed and then we looked out the front

window, door and there was smoke.



The neighborhood was evacuated because of concerns about gas leaking

from the plane s fuel tank.



South Bend Assistant Fire Chief John Corthier said the jet fuel leak

made the situation very dangerous.



When I walked around the corner after the plane had hit, I could hear

the engine still running and smell the jet fuel still pouring out of it,

and the engines were still going, another neighbor said.



The Associated Press reported that the plane was registered to 7700

Enterprises of Montana LLC in Helena, Mont., which is owned by Wes Caves

and does business as DigiCut Systems in Tulsa, Okla. The company makes

window film and paint overlay for automobiles.

sevenstrokeroll
18th Mar 2013, 03:48
for those ofyou who don't know south bend , indiana USA...

It is the home of Notre Dame University (fighting Irish...and this happened on St. Patrick's Day)

The town is a very nice place. The airport is a capable one and I used to fly DC9's into it.

...

What caused the crashes of the two previous Premier jets....

FIRESYSOK
18th Mar 2013, 04:29
The airplanes are fine; these are solid Beechcraft products. Why an electrical problem should result in a loss of control in good weather points to inexperience and incompetence. There is no generic flaw- only rich people over their heads and fatalities to boot.

And South Bend is not a great city. It was one, decades ago.

The lawyers are already in line to sue the manufacturer. That's America.

sevenstrokeroll
18th Mar 2013, 05:15
well, I like south bend and its neighbor mishiwaka.

there are good points about being ''over your head'' in a particular plane...I fully understand it.

however, could a n electrical failure turn into a fire?

and certainly if one is dependent upon an autopilot, well....'nuff said.

I spy
18th Mar 2013, 05:47
"The plane was registered to 7700 Enterprises of Montana LLC in Helena, Montana. The company is owned by Wes Caves and does business as DigiCut Systems in Tulsa, Oklahoma It makes window film and paint overlay for automobiles.

A woman identifying herself as Mr Caves' wife answered the phone at their home Sunday and said, "I think he's dead," before hanging up."


What sort of freaking ghoul would ring the owner's wife?!?!?.....oh, I know......a JOURNALIST...:ugh:

robbreid
18th Mar 2013, 20:43
Update March 18 15:00 EST

Owner of N26DK Wes Caves of Digicut Systems was piloting his own aircraft when it crashed, sitting in co-pilot's seat and also killed - long time friend John Davis who was not type rated but owned a twin engine prop aircraft.

2 other passengers 1 listed as serious, 1 fair, and a lady from the 2nd home hit listed as fair.

Seems nobody else was killed or transported to hospital. Earlier reports stated 2 persons on the ground were killed.

Local news also reported that the aircraft did touch down before it aborted and went around ???, however NTSB should take 7 - 10 days for preliminary report.

South Bend plane crash: 2 killed, 3 injured when small jet crashes in South Bend - chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-south-bend-plane-crash-20130318,0,4105855.story)

sevenstrokeroll
19th Mar 2013, 01:27
owner flown jet...non quald guy in right seat...(single pilot ops ok).and we wonder what went wrong?

anyone remember that silicon valley exec who crashed her citation?

bizjets101
19th Mar 2013, 01:46
I remember her well Jeannette Symons, N102PT - that investigation was over 3 years!! NTSB report (http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20080211X00172&ntsbno=MIA08MA051&akey=1)

The pilot's spatial disorientation and subsequent failure to maintain airplane control.

(also get-there-itis - other flights were cancelled and she had a meeting she had to attend - even though the weather was horrible)

bizjets101
19th Mar 2013, 01:54
Three Premier 1A crashes in a month - I'd hate to be the Beechcraft Negotiator looking for bids for the Premier / Hawker lines with this going on.

Last I heard there were five companies in the bidding, including 2 from China!!

gooneydog
19th Mar 2013, 01:54
Interesting Seven I flew DC9's in there also. Prob more recently than you

Rob

robbreid
19th Mar 2013, 17:46
N26DK crash caught on CCTV security camera;

https://twitter.com/bizjet101/status/314054547205140480

added; from pilot witness;

I was waiting to taxi when SBN tower told us they were working an emergency. Unfortunately, I saw the whole thing. They attempted to land, looked like they were going to land about 3/4 of the way down the runway and went around. Started a slight right turn, nose pitched up,steep turn to the right, very nose high then rolled on its back. Spun twice inverted rolled back over and hit the ground. I didn't see any smoke. CFR at SBN took off immediately.
What a horrible sight to see. God bless them and their families. Amazed that there were survivors.

sevenstrokeroll
19th Mar 2013, 20:54
thanks for posting the eye witness account...
wow


looks like we have to re-evaluate owner operated/flown jets.

bizjets 101...thanks...I flew out of Palo Alto at the start of the silicon valley revolution...ran into computer guys who were over night zillionaires...they proceeded to tell me how computers could do all the flying...they proceeded to kill themselves.

I still remember 2 different whiz kids telling me how easy it was to fly and I was making too much of it...well, I'm still here.

I wish I could see the video, but I have a super old computer.

be careful...and if you are an owner operator...spring for a real pilot or two!

sevenstrokeroll
19th Mar 2013, 23:10
anyway, back to the crash.

it almost sounds like "THEY" retracted the flaps too soon and stalled/spun

pretty sure the plane doesn't have LED but if it does, that too.

anyone see the flap position on the wreck??

Machinbird
24th Mar 2013, 01:13
Does anyone see flaps in this view? Just before impact. From the video.
http://home.comcast.net/~shademaker/Premier1.png

sevenstrokeroll
24th Mar 2013, 03:40
sorry machinbird...my computer won't show that pict...wish I could see.

maestrogn
28th Mar 2013, 02:09
It is kind of strange not to see educated speculation on this one. Why did they attempt a landing and wind up 3/4 of the way down the runway according to the pilot who saw it?

The comment that perhaps they retracted flaps too soon -- what about that and the reported behavior of the airplane between the go around and the crash.

What kind of electrical problem could lead to the long landing and then the loss of control?

I understand that they now have the CVR.

Finally, there is a reference to and LED on the jet -- for this novice, what is the LED and how is it relevant?

mGN

galaxy flyer
28th Mar 2013, 03:21
LED = Leading Edge Device, aka slats or flaps. None on Premiers.

GF

maestrogn
28th Mar 2013, 11:57
Thanks, GF. I know the leading edge devices and also the non-aviation use of LED ... never connected the letters. Thanks for the help.

I'd still like to know why this incident has so little interest. I would imagine that small jet pilots would be all over it to learn from it.

mGN

His dudeness
28th Mar 2013, 13:59
I would imagine that small jet pilots would be all over it to learn from it.

It happened 11 days ago and beside the fact that they crashed there is little to none additional information available yet.

So, how do you think should "small jet pilots" learn from it? If there is an established reason after an thorough investigation I would guess the "small jet pilots" will be discussing and learning from "it".

Are you a pilot ?

maestrogn
28th Mar 2013, 14:05
Love your site name.

Am an almost pilot -- never took training to completion.

Thanks for the reply.

mGN

His dudeness
28th Mar 2013, 16:37
I didn`t mean to be disrespectful...I really just wondered.

A lot of accidents find their way into training, (into Crew resource management training and simulator scenarios etc.) but only when an investigation has been done. If this one sheds a new light it will be discussed.

Just makes no sense to do so when no hard facts apart from the wreckage is there...

maestrogn
28th Mar 2013, 19:48
No umbrage taken. My question stemmed from the fact that on the commercial side of PPRuNe, there quite often is educated speculation prior to the investigation coming out. While often, when coming from non-pilots or from those who have no experience in the particular aircraft involved, the speculation is disturbing, some of the educated speculation causes one to think and a great deal can be learned. The recent crash in Moscow is an excellent example. When the official report finally comes out, comparing the speculation and my own thinking is a really great way to learn. In my field of voice research, I attend surgical discussions even though I am not a surgeon. After the discussion by the other surgeons, hearing what the presenting surgeon did and seeing its outcome is an incredible way to learn.

My life has seen my passion funneled into things other than flying (sailing, performing classical music, etc.) but my intense love of flying is still very much present. That love has been bolstered by the fact that my best friend was a Continental 76 driver and has, over the years, shared a great deal with me.

All best!

mGN

robbreid
5th Apr 2013, 17:52
NTSB Identification: CEN13FA196
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, March 17, 2013 in South Bend, IN
Aircraft: Hawker Beechcraft Corporation 390, registration: N26DK
Injuries: 2 Fatal,3 Serious.


This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
On March 17, 2013, at 1623 eastern daylight time, a Hawker Beechcraft model 390 (Premier IA) business jet, N26DK, serial number RB-226, collided with three residential structures and terrain following an aborted landing attempt on runway 9R located at the South Bend Regional Airport (KSBN), South Bend, Indiana. The private pilot and pilot-rated-passenger occupying the cockpit seats were fatally injured. An additional two passengers and one individual on the ground sustained serious injuries. The airplane was registered to 7700 Enterprises of Montana, LLC and operated by Digicut Systems of Tulsa, Oklahoma, under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 while on an instrument flight plan. Day visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the business flight that departed Richard Lloyd Jones Jr. Airport (KRVS), Tulsa, Oklahoma, at 1358 central daylight time.

According to preliminary air traffic control information, at 1610:31, the accident pilot established radio communications with South Bend Approach Control while at 11,000 feet mean sea level (msl). The air traffic controller cleared the flight direct to KNUTE intersection and told the pilot to expect a visual approach to runway 9R. At 1611:44, the flight was cleared to descend to 10,000 feet msl. At 1613:06, the flight was cleared to 3,000 feet msl. At 1615:00, the approach controller told the pilot to make a 5-degree left turn to align with runway 9R and asked the pilot to report when he had the airport in sight. At 1615:07, the pilot declared an emergency because of a lack of engine power, reporting that they were "dead stick" and without any power. About 23 seconds later, at 1615:30, the pilot transmitted "we've lost all power, and we have no hydraulics." When the controller asked if the airplane remained controllable, the pilot replied "ah, barely controllable." The controller advised that all runways at KSBN were available for landing and issued the current winds, which were 130-degrees at 10 knots. At 1615:22, the pilot transmitted that the airplane’s navigational systems were inoperative and requested a radar vector toward the airport. The controller replied that the airport was 9 miles directly ahead of the airplane’s current position. At 1616:12, the controller told the pilot to turn 10-degrees left to intersect runway 9R. At 1616:15, the pilot replied "26DK, turning left." No additional voice communications were received from the accident airplane. The approach controller continued to transmit radar vectors toward runway 9R without any response from the accident pilot. At 1618:58, the approach controller told the accident airplane to go-around because the main landing gear was not extended. (The tower controller had informed the approach controller that only the nose landing gear was extended) The accident airplane was then observed to climb and enter a right traffic pattern for runway 9R. The airplane made another landing approach to runway 9R with only the nose landing gear extended. Several witnesses observed the airplane bounce several times on the runway before it ultimately entered a climbing right turn. The airplane was then observed to enter a nose low descent into a nearby residential community.

sevenstrokeroll
5th Apr 2013, 20:35
interesting name for a company...7700?

interesting and thanks for posting!

robbreid
5th Apr 2013, 22:59
Irony - the companies actual address is;

DigiCut Systems
7700 E 38TH ST
TULSA, OK 74145-3211

galaxy flyer
6th Apr 2013, 00:52
Just speculation, but combining pilot's report of "we've lost all power" and "dead stick" plus the fact there was no fire equals no fuel. No hydraulics might explain no main landing gear.

GF

VFD
6th Apr 2013, 02:18
Just speculation, but combining pilot's report of "we've lost all power" and "dead stick" plus the fact there was no fire equals no fuel. No hydraulics might explain no main landing gear.
That would be a thought however, earlier reports by the Asst. Fire Chief said there was a basement full of fuel in the home where the plane came to rest.
Also in earlier reports there was an electrical issue but nothing in the preliminary report address that situation.
Just not sure how you would have enough energy to make 2 unsuccessful approaches and do a go around for an attempted 3rd approach without some power coming from the turbines.

VFD

galaxy flyer
6th Apr 2013, 02:49
VFD

I agree except explain the pilot's comments about being dead stick and no power?

GF

VFD
6th Apr 2013, 03:04
Just a wild guess Galaxy, with electrical problems you might not have tank to engine fuel pumps. The donks could just be providing a small amount of thrust, and no electrics to operate the hydralic valves for the gear or idle engines providing full hydraulic power for the systems.
Just too little information at this point.

VFD

sevenstrokeroll
8th Apr 2013, 00:20
now, I've never even been in one of these jets...they look small don't they?

anyway...in one transport I flew, if the electric fuel pumps are uncovered due to low fuel, OR because of electric failure there are minimum fuel levels for a goaround...as you point the nose up, the fuel sloshes back and uncovers the fuel ports.

just speculating here.

we even had MAX angles (attitude) for go arounds with certain amounts of fuel or pump problems.

I remember many years ago being taught if high to use a series of figure 8's on final (purpindicular to runway) as each turn turns you to the runway.

fwiw

robbreid
19th Apr 2013, 23:18
More recordings of fatal South Bend plane crash released | ABC57 | South Bend IN News, Weather and Sports | Top Stories (http://www.abc57.com/home/top-stories/Control-tower-recordings-of-fatal-South-Bend-plane-crash-released-203814681.html)

avionimc
21st Apr 2013, 19:09
Very interesting ATC communication.

Pilot reported no power and no hydraulics, aircraft barely controllable!
TWR ordered to GO AROUND! Because the gear was up.
In this case, with insight, gear up landing would have been much preferable.
Fully aware of the emergency, instead of ordering a go around - with a clear voice of authority - the controller would have been better off asking the pilot if he was aware his gear was up, and let him decide further actions. IMHO.

avionimc
21st Apr 2013, 19:15
If warranted, pilots should never forget to use a simple one word reply to ATC, in a clear and unambiguous voice:

UNABLE

His dudeness
21st Apr 2013, 20:14
Fully aware of the emergency, instead of ordering a go around - with a clear voice of authority - the controller would have been better off asking the pilot if he was aware his gear was up, and let him decide further actions. IMHO.

Do we know if the pilots even heard the transmission ?
FWIW, if an ATCO would order me to G/A with no power left, he`d have to explain me how in the first place.

alas8
22nd Apr 2013, 21:31
Guys,
Just some technical details about the airplane, may be it will help you to better understand the situation.
- This is small airplane, mechanical flight control system, no hydraulics, pretty much like C172
- Once engines are started, fuel system is independent of electrical power - fuel is supplied by jet pumps which are powered by return fuel flow from the engines, which in turn is created by mechanical engine pumps
- Hydraulic power is used for spoilers, landing gear and brakes; yes, total hydraulic failure is unpleasant situation but not due to control problems, but due to terribly increased landing distance (flaps up - cannot use, no spoilers, no anti-skid, emergency braking only)
- In normally functioning airplane total electrical failure should not happen, but in reality standby battery sometimes completely dies in 1-2 flights or people just fly with dead battery longer time waiting a scheduled maintanance visit; due to blown current limiter failure of one generator can lead to loss of great part of aircraft functionality and this fact is not properly addressed in aircraft manuals or standard training
- Alternate gear extension is provided, system is b... simple - steel cables going to all three locks, just procedure shall be followed (like disabling normal LG control) and the red handle shall be pulled firmly all the way out
- There are no LEDs, just electrically operated flaps

talkpedlar
24th Apr 2013, 18:55
..with all electrics failed, all his engine Ts, Ps and speeds were indicating zero... leading him to believe he had double engine failure? He sure had plenty of power to fly a missed approach and rejoin the pattern... IMHO

With respect, and I have no specific information on this, I reckon this entire incident was handled by a pilot with low time/experience.

TP

Teldorserious
25th Apr 2013, 17:34
Dual engine failure typically means fuel starvation.