BBMF Hands on with Harvard PH-TBR

[CoffmanStarter]

Worth a post ...

It would seem our BBMF Pilots will get hands-on next weekend with PH-TBR ... Lucky chaps !

The North American AT-16-ND Harvard IIB c/n 14A-808 PH-TBR is decked out in the historic Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLAF) livery and its original air force registration B-182. The Harvard is owned by the Dutch Military Aviation Museum and operated by the Royal Netherlands Air Force Historical Flight Foundation. It 'was built by the Noorduyn Aviation Company in Canada in 1943 and served with the Canadian air force before taken over by the Dutch air force in 1949.

A bit more of a tail wheel handful than the Chipmunk ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFjXjtqCAAEt91-.jpg

BBMFPRO ... Would be great if you could add a bit more ... I assume this is part of the training routine for those pilots that have never flown tail wheel before ?

Coff.

[Courtney Mil]

I would love to see it flying.

[BOAC]

In my time the path was Chipmunk-Harvard-Hurricane

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks BOAC ... would that have been the Harvard based at Duxford in your time ? Good to see collaboration with Dutch counterparts. Shame we don't have our own Harvard :(

[BEagle]

Has Harvard KF183 finally retired from photo work at Boscombe Down now? At one time, it was the world's oldest military aeroplane still in service.

[longer ron]

183 is still based at Boscombe Beagle,she mostly flies for the Test pilot school these days.
She is on a service at the mo...hopefully rasping around the skies again within a few weeks :ok:

[BOAC]

Boscombe, Coff.

[BEagle]

Glad to hear that! I remember seeing a Harvard flying over the old A303 somewhere near Amesbury or Andover when we were on our way to a family holiday some years before I applied to join the RAF. Almost exactly 50 years later, after I'd retired, I was driving along the 'new' A303 and saw perhaps the very same aircraft!

They certainly built them to last!

[longer ron]

They certainly did...she is a beaut :ok:

[Stitchbitch]

Looking forward to her getting airborne again soon. As BOAC said, route for new blighter pilots is still the same. Chippy, Harvard, Hurricane..

[CoffmanStarter]

LR ... Possibly a moot point ... but is KF183 owned by QinetiQ although she is on the UK Mil Register ?

Another original Noorduyn build I believe ...

Cheers ...

Coff.

[Wander00]

1988 or 89, a flight in the BD Harvard was an essential part of a Command Accounts inspection trip largely carried out by air, having done Bedford and Farnborough earlier in the wee, travelling in the "Raspberry Ripple" - happy days.

[pontifex]

When on B Sqn at BD one of my ancilliary jobs was to train any "Kerosine Kids" going on to BBMF to land the Harvard. Started them in the front seat and then moved them onto the rear one. I know from experience that that is trickier that a Hurricane. After a season on the Hurri they would move onto the baby Spit and, subsequently, onto the Mk19. I was lucky enough to train on the Harvard, fly it extensively at BD and then fly with the Harvard Formtion Team as a civvy. Over 500 hrs.

[CoffmanStarter]

Hi Pontifex ... you lucky chap :ok:

Would that be Mr Numan's Team ?

It's good to see/hear the Shoreham example flying around our neck of the woods during the summer :)

Best ...

Coff.

[longer ron]

Coff
I believe that 183 is owned by QQ apparently !But am not privy to all the financial details regarding the change from MOD to QQ
She is indeed a Noorduyn built a/c and is a pleasure to fly (had a lovely 60mins in her a few years ago :ok:) she was out on engine runs today but I believe it will be a little while yet before she graces the skies again !

rgds LR

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks Ron very much appreciated :ok:

[pontifex]

Hi Coff,

Yes it was. Despite all the silly stories he is a bloody good pilot and very safety conscious. I was lucky enough to have a Zeke as my steed towards the end (thats when I became a full time airline chap and couldn't get the weekends off) The Zeke is one of the Harvards modified to look like Zeros for "Tora Tora Tora". Unlike the Harvard it has a geared 3 bladed prop. Same engine though. Unlike the Harvard, it could absorb the power and could do low level aeros all day without having to pause and climb back up again. Gary N, as you may remember had his harvard to look like a Zero. We would do a proper 2 ship lolevel number with me as his wingman. You have to trust your leader to do that. And I did. If I could work out how to include photos here I would show some. Sorreeeee.

[CoffmanStarter]

Pontifex old chap ... Marvellous ... Can I help post your pics ? I'll drop you a PM.

Coff.

[RetiredBA/BY]

OK guys, don't dream. Anyone interested in forming a Harvard (or Chipmunk) group in West London ? I was interested in buying share in a beautifully restored Harvard, (in US Navy colours, based Shoreham) owned and operated by a couple of BA 320 captains, but since sold to the Boultbee Academy at Oxford.

The aim would be to have a beautiful example in RAF markings, maintained and operated to the best RAF CFS standards. PM me if seriously interested. My Luscombe Silvaire is long gone so, as the years are flying by (sorry, no pun intended) it's now or never for me !!

[CoffmanStarter]

Pontifex ...

Really great to hook up with you ... many thanks for sharing your wounderful Harvard pics when you were flying with Mr Numan's Team :ok:

Very happy to host/post some of your pics to help you get started ... I'm sure there would be much interest with your Hercules tanking and the "aggressive" Nimrod :ok:

I'll leave you to add comment next time you are on the forum ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zps617a8d89.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zps0fb62d03.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zps0ce7c734.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zpsbc23deec.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zpsb58e1baa.jpg

Just love the historic Trainers 5 Ship image :D:D:D:D

Best regards ...

Coff.

[LOMCEVAK]

Pontifex,

How time flies!

Having carried on with the Harvard Formation Team where you left off, I totally support your comments on Gary. I was always more than happy to fly on his wing through low level loops and rolls.

However, although the 'Zeke' looped nicely, it left a little to be desired when rolling beacuse if you make things bigger at the front you need to do the same at the back or it will want go sideways! Trying to keep straight when rolling in a 1/2 Cuban was always difficult in it. I know that there was one in the US where they offset the fin and apparently that mod improved its directional handling significantly. Also, I remember that the oleo pressures on the main gear had to be increased to maintain prop tip clearance and that you really had to 3-point it to prevent a prop tip strike (always sporting in a crosswind because it had a standard Mk IIB breakout tailwheel).

KF183 last flew at the end of September last year and has been down for scheduled maintenance since. Hopefully it will launch skywards any time soon. It is still used as one option for BBMF and RNHF training.

Best regards.

[pontifex]

LOMCEVAC

Good to hear from you. I was led to believe that the reason we got our hands on the Zeke was because the average American owner found landing practically impossible due to the rather demanding handling caused by the pumped up oleos that you referred to. Without wishing to sound holier than thou, I found the xwind reasonably easy, I suspect because I always used the wing down technique as taught to me by the Canadians. Why, Oh why do we still kick off drift? The only aircraft in which it won't work is 4 engined, underslung types. At BD I used it on everything and even got a 35kt limit for Pilatus on the PC9. Taught it to all my civilian students and they took to it like ducks to water!

Are you still indulging?

[LOMCEVAK]

Pontifex,

Check your PMs.

L

[clicker]

Coff, you must be near me then! I'm approx 6 miles east of EGKA.

Agree you can't mistake the Havards engine, lovely sound and always take a look for her if I can.

[CoffmanStarter]

Clicker old chap check PMs :ok: