Circling approach

[Bluescan]

Hi everybody,
this might be a stupid question, but I'm a bit confused.

It is a question regarding circling approach and protected area/minimum altitude.

Depending on category we have a protected area around the runway thresholds on an airport, as explained in the FAR/AIM. The question is, do we have to wait until we are inside the protected area before we start the circling?

Lets say we burst out of The clouds at 2000ft, on a ILS, cleared to circle to a crossing runway. We are in VFR and have good visibility.

When are we allowed to start circling?

Is been taught that we have to wait until 1.3nm (Category A), but I can not find anything specific about in the FAR AIM.

My main concern is FAA regulations, but EU regulations are interesting too.

[blue up]

Not certain that I'm correct.

If you break off from the ILS inbound course then you must either move visually or remain above MSA until within the defined circling area when you can further descend. You could also descend on the ILS to circling minima (if above ILS minima) and break off when inside the circling area.

In short, you may descend on the protected ILS path, descend to MSA or descend to circling alt when inside the circling area but must decide which one is the most limiting for your position.

Once VFR then you are no longer restricted, are you?

Does that make sense?

[Bluescan]

It makes sense, but are you technically VFR?

If environment allows, may you break off at 1500ft and fly straigt to the base leg for your landing runway?

[B737900er]

It's a very simple concept.

Circling is classed as a non precision approach and requires you to see the runway/airfield at all times.

You follow the ILS down to your Circling MDA, break off usually at a 45 degree angle and circle to the runway of intended landing.

You must have the airport insight at all times, if not you initiate a go around.

Dependent on your category of aircraft, it will give you difference distances from the airfield that will provide you with obstacle clearance.

[172_driver]

I am not sure everyone here RTFQ...

Don't think there's any particular regulations (FAR or EU-OPS) that specifically bans or allows breaking off early.. common sense can not always be written in regulations.

My vote would be for No.. you don't have to wait to the protected area if their is no risk in breaking off early. It it's VMC all around you can break off earlier & higher as needed. Certain airports may be noise sensitive and instead of dragging around the pattern at 600 ft with gear and flaps out (speaking large jets), you can plan for a smooth continuous descent into a position where you are ready to turn base/final, depending on how the circle procedure looks like.

Ask 10 pilots and get 11 answers.. springs to mind

[B737900er]

If you decide to break off early you can do so but then it becomes a visual approach.

Remember a circling approach is designed for you to break clouds and to manoeuvre to a different runway.

What if the circling altitude is right on the base of clouds? You won't be able to see that far ahead of you but you will keep ground contact which is crucial in the manoeuvre.

[172_driver]

If you decide to break off early you can do so but then it becomes a visual approach.

Agree with that one..

Remember a circling approach is designed for you to break clouds and to manoeuvre to a different runway

Or just manoeuvre to a different runway for any reason (WIP, wind).. e.g. Italy prohibits visual approaches so I can think of a few airports where ILS or VOR w circling becomes the only option.

What if the circling altitude is right on the base of clouds? You won't be able to see that far ahead of you but you will keep ground contact which is crucial in the manoeuvre.

In that case a good idea would be to stay within the protected area of the circle procedure.


But I am preaching to the choir… :)

[B737900er]

Your correct about Italy, a good example is Pisa with that horrible circle to land.

[Bluescan]

Thank you 172_driver, that was the question excactly.

So if I start circling out of the protected area, it would be considered a visual approach and I would have to comply with the minimums that applies.

:)

[sevenstrokeroll]

interesting stuff...if you follow an ILS, you should be doing the precision approach to one runway...while you may follow the glideslope, in practical flying , descending to the MDA on the localizer only is the thing to do...

now..when you have the airport/runway, terrain, obstacles in sight and can maneuver visually to a safe landing, you may start your cirlce ( a dumb word here...I'd rather say: maneuver to land).

BUT if you "CIRCLE" outside the protected area an crash into a mountain that you thought you had plenty of clearance from , boy are you in trouble.

There may be times in your career when you are not authorized to circle...we can't circle at my airline...unless its basic VFR. so, do the approach, and if you become basic VFR, you may maneuver to land,

I want to warn you that there are some airports with circling mins higher than 2000' afe! so be careful.

indeed, when I got my 737 type rating, my airline (who gives the training) won't do circles, so I have a restriction that says circle VFR only.

circling can be dangerous and few airline crashes have been blamed on this.

so, follow an aproach, see what you need to see and plenty more and just enter the traffic pattern (you might advise ATC).

if you are down and dirty, just barely seeing what you need...consider another approach straight in to the runway of landing if available.

be careful, have your copilot call airspeed and altitude as you keep your eye on the runway.

also...if an ILS is available and you are circlilng just to save time, flip up the ils to the landing runway when turning final...why not? I went into MIDWAY on one ILS, circle (VMC) to runway 13and flipped up the ILS to that runway...my copilot said SHE ( yikes) had never heard of doing that....I asked her why wouldn't you?

no answer.

[mad_jock]

its in PAN-OPS

Current on AUG 31, 2007 - UNCONTROLLED REFERNCE ONLY - GoBookee.com (http://www.gobookee.com/get_book.php?u=aHR0cDovL2dvYWNwLmNoYy5jYS9BQ1AlMjBEb2N1bWVud HMvUHJlLWNvdXJzZSUyMGFzc2lnbm1lbnQvSUNBTyUyMERPQyUyMDgxNjguc GRmCkN1cnJlbnQgb24gQVVHIDMxLCAyMDA3IC0gVU5DT05UUk9MTEVEIFJFR kVSTkNFIE9OTFk)

Which is rather dry but should have what you are looking for.

You can break off early and commence the circle.

Right real life stuff.

Circling in the min wx conditions is one of the most dangerous and heart rate increasing exercises that you will ever do.

The distance involved are extremely tight to remain inside the protected area. The speeds you will be doing to be able to get it in are in the low speed dirty area of the drag curve. Realistically in a A or B cat aircraft you will be rolling your wings level at 0.5 miles final.

Added to which if you have a stonking wind on the downwind you will go whizzing past your base and loose the field.

Its not surprising most airlines ban them. People moan about NDB approaches but circling in my book is by far the most dangerous and intense type of approach in min wx conditions what ever the approach aid you are circling off. Never had to do one yet but the go-around is not exactly easy either with a lot of thinking on the fly.

[sevenstrokeroll]

Amen Mad jock.

to the original poster...consider the maneuvers before you even start the approach...here is one thought.

localizer approach to runway 36, circle to land 18...no restrictions published.

fly loc to 36, fly length of 36 and make a right 90 followed right away by a left 270. AT one point your copilot may have a better view than you. But you know where you are and are close in the protected air space.

same thing with a procedure turn (45's).

I've done em, even missed (climb, proceed towards missed approach point and resume published missed).

now, lets talk CONTACT approaches...done em, missed...don't do em anymore.

[mad_jock]

Whats a contact approach?

[sevenstrokeroll]

surely we have different rules...

anyway, a contact approach requires that the airport you are going to to have a published standard instrument approach procedure (or special).

You may fly with visual contact with the ground and terrain with a minimum inflight visibility of 1 mile, clear of clouds (sort of like special VFR...do you have that/?).

you proceed via CONTACT flying (as contact flying was what we would now call maintain visual reference (or contact) with the ground........to the airport...if you lose the contact you fly the published missed approach, proceeding at your nav to the missed approach point to join the published missed (or otherwise cleared).

in other words, you leave the protection of an instrument approach and get yourself to the airport by looking out the window in really crummy weather.

[mad_jock]

We have SVFR although its slightly different to the US version.

We call that sort of approach a cloud break. Wouldn't be doing it though with 1km viz.

Normally they would dump you about 4-10 miles away at about 1000ft.