Red Flag 13th March Mass Launch

[CoffmanStarter]

Just released on YouTube ...

8:40 Typhoons and 13:20 Tonkas ... plus a load more hardware :ok:


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DXMUpXsg5bY

Coff.

[Wholigan]

Thank you Coff. Took me back a long way that did!

[clicker]

Nice link, thanks.

Would liked to have been there, the vapour trails on take off looked great.

Gather it must have been quite a difficult wind off the hills looking at one or two takeoffs.

[Clockwork Mouse]

it looked as though, of the fast jets, only the Tiffies took off without using reheat.

[just another jocky]

CM - I thought the Red Air F15s & F16s too. :confused:

Was it just me or were the GRs putting their gear up a bit quicker than usual? :eek: Can't be that hot there right now and they're only in trg fit with small tanks so no real weight issues.

Just wondering.

[KPax]

Does the length of runway required for take off depend on the weight of the aircraft, and does using afterburners shorten the take off run.

[Lightning Mate]

Is this a spoof post?

The answer is yes to both - Newtons' second law of motion.

[ex-fast-jets]

Newts' second law of motion

I thought that was something completely different!

Nice vid - thanks for posting.

If only I could turn back the clock....................................

[Wholigan]

I thought you had Bomber! ;)

[MSOCS]

Was it just me or were the GRs putting their gear up a bit quicker than usual? Can't be that hot there right now and they're only in trg fit with small tanks so no real weight issues.

No - it may not be hot but it's certainly warm enough for the old RB199s to have a hard time and the airfield is reasonably high too which affects performance. The drag lost by retracting the gear 'promptly' rather than quickly (believe the retraction time hasn't altered in 30 years :ok:) is particularly vital to get you to the nice side of the drag curve if you lose a donk so again, no, I don't think they're pulling the wheels up too early at all.

[newt]

And not an NBC suit in sight! What is the world coming to?

Newt's second law of motion is Keep your head down when you see Bomber approaching!!!:ok:

[cuefaye]

Thanks Coff - took a few years off did that, albeit briefly :{

[Dysonsphere]

And if you remember theres a video around of a Mig that pulled its gear up when not quite flying and slid past the camera on its belly a very no tea and biccys chat I feel.

[MSOCS]

'Prompt' and 'pre-emptively' are entirely different things Dyson. The MiG wasn't flying; the GRs in this video clearly are.

[just another jocky]

MSOCS....I didn't say they were pulling them up "too early", but earlier than usual. I'm just a little surprised that in t11 or 11 fit that it seems a little 'earlier than normal' to be raising them. I don't recall it being an issue on the 8 Red Flags I've flown there in the GR.

[SRENNAPS]

Awesome video, the Typhoons were nice but my heart still lies with my beloved Tonkas:):)

Shocked to see so many people with cameras etc. They have obviously relaxed the rules with the number people they allow to cross the infamous red line. I did have that privilege once for a mass launch, back in 96. My video has been seen here before, but I must admit that it is no where near as good as this:ok::ok:

[howiehowie93]

Great Video !!

I think the U/C up can be selected prior to Take Off and once the WOW Switch unmakes the wheels will start coming up straight away - maybe Courtney or some other Front Office type can confirm? I also think there might be a warning about bumpy runways too to prevent a "MIG" sort of moment recorded above !

I know the Thrust Reverse & Lift Dump could be preselected for a STOL landing but being a Sootie I didn't have much to do with the Riggery stuff !


Also that must be an open press day as when I did my one and only Red Flag in 1992 (!) there were strict warnings not to be seen with a camera.

regards
H

[MSOCS]

Howie,

I think the U/C up can be selected prior to Take Off and once the WOW Switch unmakes the wheels will start coming up straight away

The WoW switch prevents the gear handle moving until it is un-made (i.e airborne) however, there is an override button that you can use on the ground but any time the handle is moved up the wheels travel, therefore there are few instances where this would be used for real. Ye canny pre-arm the gear!

[howiehowie93]

Thanks for the answer.

I think the U/C leaver was about the only thing I didn't play with when I worked on Tonkas !! Oh and anything in the Rear ! L:=L

Thems were the days !

regards
H

[oldmansquipper]

I think the U/C up can be selected prior to Take Off and once the WOW Switch unmakes the wheels will start coming up straight away - maybe Courtney or some other Front Office type can confirm? I also think there might be a warning about bumpy runways too to prevent a "MIG" sort of moment recorded above !

I know the Thrust Reverse & Lift Dump could be preselected for a STOL landing but being a Sootie I didn't have much to do with the Riggery stuff !



Great system for winning short landing competitions, (Allegedly). Shades on, sleeves rolled up, cream in from the gunnery range, `Tango in the night` blasting out from the CVR .... pre-select all the gizmos :cool: and then, whatever you do...... DON`T BOUNCE!

:E

[BEagle]

I think the U/C up can be selected prior to Take Off and once the WOW Switch unmakes the wheels will start coming up straight away - maybe Courtney or some other Front Office type can confirm?

The Buccaneer had this feature, as a legacy from its FAA origins and short decks. I don't know whether anyone in the RAF ever used it though.

[cuefaye]

In 1966, following investigations into the loss of S.Mk.2 aircraft immediately after launch, use of the Deck Take-Off facility (selected by the pilot and allowing the WOG switches to automatically retract the U/C as the wheels left the deck) was discontinued. The switch was initially wirelocked in the Off position on all RN aircraft, and subsequently removed from RAF aircraft.

[Courtney Mil]

oldmansquipper,

Right on all counts, but selecting gear up on the ground would run the risk you mention and it puts a lot of trust in a microswitch or two.

As for 'pre-armed thrust reverse landings', thay were regularly practised (in the F3, anyway) and very effective - and a hell of a ride. However, the rules state that you have to bring the throttles to idle on touchdown to check that both buckets deployed before going to full power. If you land with 80% a side set (max RPM for TR deployment) and rock the throttles outboard as soon as the wheels hit the ground, you can select full power immediately and get a much faster engine spool-up (and, I suppose hope that you didn't get assymetric TR). Now that was impressive.

Not an "offical" technique, but I could find any rules to stop me doing it at the time so it seemed fair game to me.

[Al R]

Derek Robinson wrote extensively about the gear coming up early in a 'Piece of Cake' I think, no such switches in the Hurricane though..?!

The daddy has to be that single seat F-15; it looks evil and still very potent. The Typhoons though - no reheat? Why not, is it that efficient it doesn't need it or is there another reason?

Thanks for posting.

[Rhino power]

Re: Typhoon not using re-heat. Why use it when you don't need it? Plenty of thrust without using it.

-RP

[Al R]

.. thanks.

[Spacepope]

The first 2 F-16 agressors at 4:50 ish didn't look like they used it either, the subsequent ones did though.

Correction: The F-15s didn't use it either, nor did any of the F-16s that took off without underwing tanks. The heavy ones with tanks did u=indeed use it.

[Rhino power]

The first two F-15s at 6:37 and 7:00 both use re-heat to get airborne but cancel it before reaching the cameraman's position so its no longer visible...

-RP

(note to self: must get out more...)

[SRENNAPS]

Re: Typhoon not using re-heat. Why use it when you don't need it? Plenty of thrust without using it.

Cause it looks and sounds good :E:E

Red Flag is (arguably) the greatest stage in the world for the ultimate in military aircraft. If you’ve got it…...use it :ok:

P. S. I used to be a Sooty. We used to work hard to make sure some of you guys had the best for the throttle position of “combat” :O

[Courtney Mil]

The Typhoons though - no reheat? Why not, is it that efficient it doesn't need it or is there another reason?

Standard F-15 (fighter) take off is cold power too. Plenty of thrust without burners.

[Geehovah]

Good to see the Typhoon at Flag. I spent 3 years trying to make it happen but just missed out. That must have been just after I left Nellis........and I agree, why waste gas at Flag? It doesn't impress anyone. Save it for the fight.