The next one to try

[falconx]

Goldair Bendigo - Flights to Bendigo and Melbourne | Flights to and from Bendigo and Melbourne (http://www.goldairbendigo.com.au/)


So we all have the ego to start our own airline but no one seems to have listened.

"In aviation to make a small fortune you need to start with a large one"

[PLovett]

Gold Air will be looking to expand its services to such cities as Adelaide, Sydney, Canberra, Hobart, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Mildura, once demand dictates and airport infrastructure is enhanced.

With a Bandit :eek:

'Tell 'em their dreamin' son. :(

[advo-cate]

Congratulations!!!! GoldAir

LETS SEE IF CASA HAVE THE "GOLDEN-ONES" TO DEAL WITH CAR 210.

CAR 209/210 (http://vocasupport.com/?page_id=855)

Is this going to be another "One rule for one and one rule for another???

[boocs]

Besides all the smart a$$ comments.... Good luck to them!!

b.

[avconnection]

This article indicates a J31 Hopes for new airline in Bendigo | Bendigo Advertiser (http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/1127378/hopes-for-new-airline-in-bendigo/)

Either way they're over the AD's 5700kg limit.

[Jack Ranga]

That'll be interesting, 2 and bit hour drive to Melbourne. 25 minute flight, add dick-around time to and from airports etc, 2 and a bit hours?

[compressor stall]

2 and a bit hours? More like 1:45.

Not sure what your issue is advocate. I don't see any advertising there in the article. And yes they have a website with a proposed timetable on it. Is having a website advertising?

I have no connection to them, I wish them well but can't see the demand personally

[VH-XXX]

Not in peak hour my friend.

[compressor stall]

Yes, but Melb airport is roughly at the start of the peak hour traffic.

So unless it's an amphib J31, you still have to get into town.

[BPA]

Bandit's MTOW is 5700kg and they are the perfect aircraft for short sectors.

[Jack Ranga]

And a mobile phone number? C'mon, a 1300 number costs farkall. I'm all for people having a crack but Bendigo Melbourne??

[Cactusjack]

Well well falconx, surprised you are slagging the newbies. You were much more tolerant of new starter JetGo. Biased by chance?
And no, I don't have a personal interest in either outfit.

[Skystar320]

Neil Hansford? Why does that name ring a bell?

[falconx]

Sky star



From 5 down.


neil hansford aviation - Google Search (http://www.google.com.au/search?q=neil+hansford+aviation&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari)

[advo-cate]

Compressor stall:

210 Restriction of advertising of commercial operations

(1) A person must not give a public notice, by newspaper advertisement, broadcast statement or any other means of public announcement, to the effect that a person is willing to undertake by use of an Australian aircraft any commercial operations if the last‑mentioned person has not obtained an Air Operator’s Certificate authorising the conduct of those operations.

Penalty: 10 penalty units.

(2) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.

Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.


and from the Oxford dictionary:

Definition of advertisement
noun
a notice or announcement in a public medium promoting a product, service, or event or publicizing a job vacancy: advertisements for alcoholic drinks

(advertisement for) informal a person or thing regarded as a means of recommending something: unhappy clients are not a good advertisement for the firm

Origin: late Middle English (denoting a statement calling attention to something): from Old French advertissement, from the verb advertir (see advertise)

Just a "little thing" I know, but remember Direct Air and CAR 206.

[dhavillandpilot]

Rule number one when starting an small commuter airline -DONT

Rule number two - DONT

Rule number 3 - IF YOU MUST THEN ONLY FLY TO A REGION OR TOWN WHEN ROAD TRANSPORT IS NOT PRACTICAL UNDER TWO HOURS. This should be either an Island or remote location. Even then dubious returns

I wish them all the best but, the punters will always pick their car thinking the only cost is the fuel - never thinking about service and depreciation.

[Ejector]

Long duty days for 1 crew.

[avcraft]

Damn these tall poppies... Imagine the cheek! I suppose someone will want to build an airport near Toowoomba next...

Or... I've sent 50 applications out and no one will hire me... There's no jobs etc etc etc... Hey look someone is starting up an airline, what an idiot, that'll never work

You guy's are funny :D:D:D

[Ultralights]

if this website is a snapshot, or sample of the attitude and feelings of members of the Ga aviation industry in Oz, is it any wonder its been a long downhill slide. the words "think positive" and how about doing something positive, have never once been uttered in this industry. it wont change until the attitudes of those in it change.. once the purchase of my flying school is finalised, i know where i wont be looking for future employees.

[weloveseaplanes]

Best wishes to them and anyone else out there with the balls to try and build something to help others soar away from a land infested with reasonable and sane grey men who know every reason why the courageous are foolish to follow their dreams.

The trouble with aviation is airports. They of course allow all sorts of undesirables such as regulators, officials, consultants, experts, and other ill informed parasites to drive on up and paint colorful little lines everywhere to match their fluorescents vests. This has the cumulative effect of
a) driving good men out of aviation
b) year by year increasing the salaries of the ravenous officials
c) turning initially naive pilots into negative cynics

The key is of course to get rid of all the airports and bring back the flying boats. Then they'll be no shortage of positive pilots ;)

[Jack Ranga]

avcraft & ultralights, are you serious? You reckon this will work?

It's got NOTHING to do with thinking positive & EVERYTHING to do with a sound business plan.

I hope this bloke is doing it with his own money.

I've never employed anybody off prune, you've got that much right :ok:

[gassed budgie]

This was tried by Sovereign Airlines back in the early eighties with Navaho VH-MNT and Chieftan VH-TMN. The rego's were variations of the then owners name, Trevor Mathews.
Even then it was felt that Bendigo was a little to close to Melbourne for the operation to have any long term viability. It lasted a little under three years before it folded if I remember correctly.
You can drive to Tulla from the middle of Bendigo these days in an easy hour and a half. As DH pilot said, most people for whatever reason, will drive their car. Bendigo - Sydney, Bendigo - Adelaide or Bendigo - to somewhere else, maybe. But Bendigo - Melbourne still isn't going to work.

[compressor stall]

Advocate. As I expect you know better than I, a court would ultimately determine whether having a website from which you can't book yet is advertising. I think it's a case of regs not having caught up with the tech world. Is my personal website on which I have photos etc advertising? It was interesting that there was no link to their website in the article. If they had a corporate office in Main Street Bendigo, could they have signage on the windows or façade?

As for the business model. Bendigo to Melbourne CBD.

Option 1. Drive to Bendigo airport, checkin by 0630. Arrive 0730. 0745 at earliest by the time you are out the front (carry on) then arrange txport. Taxi or sky bus into CBD add 45 mins at peak hour. 0830 at best at CBD.

Option 2. Vline to Southern Cross. Departs Bendigo 0631. Arrive CBD 0812. You always have a seat, and it's an express so you don't have to worry about this (http://www.railpage.com.au/news/article-11798/) :E

What am I missing?

[Ultralights]

avcraft & ultralights, are you serious? You reckon this will work?

It's got NOTHING to do with thinking positive & EVERYTHING to do with a sound business plan.


Im not basing my comment on this one particular venture, but every time something, someone, new comes along with an idea, it immediatly gets shot down in flames before anyone has really had a thought about it. even the toowomba airport has attracted critics, i remember hearing a story of plans to build an international freight terminal near grifith, capable of landing 747 freighters, and flying fresh meat and produce direct to asia.
of course things will never work if they denied every chance they get.

i dont know anything about the bendigo plan, other than whats posted here, but why shoot it down before its even begun? if it fails, so be it, but give it a chance, you just never know, it might just be the foot in the door many people need, and god forbid, it might expand into other centres, and be another success story. it seams the last thing this industry wants, is a success story..

[PLovett]

Quote:
210 Restriction of advertising of commercial operations

(1) A person must not give a public notice, by newspaper advertisement, broadcast statement or any other means of public announcement, to the effect that a person is willing to undertake by use of an Australian aircraft any commercial operations if the last‑mentioned person has not obtained an Air Operator’s Certificate authorising the conduct of those operations.

Penalty: 10 penalty units.

(2) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.

Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.

and from the Oxford dictionary:

Quote:
Definition of advertisement
noun
a notice or announcement in a public medium promoting a product, service, or event or publicizing a job vacancy: advertisements for alcoholic drinks

(advertisement for) informal a person or thing regarded as a means of recommending something: unhappy clients are not a good advertisement for the firm

Origin: late Middle English (denoting a statement calling attention to something): from Old French advertissement, from the verb advertir (see advertise)
Just a "little thing" I know, but remember Direct Air and CAR 206.

OK, lets start with 210. Firstly, I don't see anything in the web site that says Goldair is willing to undertake NOW a flight from Bendigo to Melbourne. They are saying that at some time in the future they will undertake such flights. At this point you can't be prosecuted for an intention to run an RPT service or any other commercial service if it comes to that, only for actually conducting such a service.

As to advertisements, forget the Oxford dictionary or any other for that matter. The law has long decided that an advertisement is an offer to treat. In other words it opens up negotiations but is not binding. In contract law there are 3 very basic elements; an offer to treat, an acceptance & consideration. For example, you go into a shop and see a sign that says "$5/kg for XXX". You go to the shopkeeper and say I want a kg of XXX please and here is $5. He says that will be $7 please. You say but the sign says $5. He says that is only an offer to treat, you offered $5 but my acceptance is only for $7.

The Directair example is not relevant as, apart from being a shocking decision at law, they were actually operating the flights. Goldair may be in the process of actually applying for a limited capacity RPT AOC and have no intention of doing anything until they have that document.

Please note I have nothing to do with the company and shall be watching developments with interest.

[MCKES]

The flights are to Essendon not Tullamarine.

[avcraft]

Hey Jack Ranga! I have no idea if it will work and I know nothing about them or their operation but I wish them the best of luck and good on them for giving it a go!

[Ret Sabala]

If you are talking about short commuter hops v driving what about Newcastle to Sydney with Aeropelican in twotters? That worked for years now in J32's I think-correct me if I am wrong.
I suppose they are just trying to use the same model off a lower population base.
The comments regarding negativity and cycnics on this forum are correct. I don't think this forum is a good and accurate reflection of the majority of pilots. Most I feel have given up on it.

[Jack Ranga]

Ret,

What's the population base on the Central Coast?

[Ret Sabala]

Who said anything about central coast?
I was comparing Bendigo Melbourne as a comparison to Newcastle Sydney.

[Jack Ranga]

OK, let me be more specific,

W h a t i s t h e p o p u l a t i o n o f N e w c a s t l e ?

Compare it to the population of Bendigo? When pelican were at their height what industry was in Newcastle? Have a look at the Central Coast and the population spread from Newcastle and north of? What other towns, cities are in proximity to Bendigo?

Clear enough for you?

[falconx]

newcastle has the resource / law industry to justify it, what does Bendigo have besides drunks?

[Cactusjack]

NTL has a number of large retirement villages, the Silvertails love the weather up there. That's why JQ does pretty good on the NTL run, plenty of old biddies spending their super on holidays and specialist doctor visits interstate!
Bless em.

[drpixie]

The key is of course to get rid of all the airports and bring back the flying boats. Then they'll be no shortage of positive pilots

Absolutely. Proper big flying boats. I'd pay quite a bit for a ride in a Sunderland, even if I didn't want to go to Bendigo. :)

[nomorecatering]

As I write this post, I;m sitting in a friends housein bendigo and we have been talking about this proposal all morning. My friend recokons that Bendigo to Melb wont be a goer as its quicker to drive. However, he does say that the Bendigo ppulation is crying out for a dirsct service to Sydney, Adelaide, Gold Coast and Brisie.

Why cant the gov develop these routes, get Sharps with their metro's, give them a start up development subsidy and a protected route designation for 5 years. The gov is quick to throw billions of $ at the car industry. Why not transport.

My mate says the BDG population travels extensively, he himself makes 6-10 trips to sydney each year alone and most of his friends have similar travel requirements.

Only problem is that some serious $ would need to be spent on BGD airport for an apron and terminal and another 400m of runway. But it would be money well spent, we asa country have to get out of this malaise we have and start building, fostering and encouraging development and progress.

[Jack Ranga]

Now ya talkin' :ok:

[nomorecatering]

Of course lack of terminal space and slots at Sydney would be a problem.

Does YSSY have slots for say a 8am arrival, 9am departure and say a 5pm arrival with a 6pm departure. These would be the times needed to capture the business market out of Bendigo.

[hiwaytohell]

Bendigo - Sydney in a Bandit! Sounds like a winner!!!

Isn't Bendigo restricted to 5,700Kg MTOW?

[MadMadMike]

Running some quick and dirty numbers on times for a BDG-SYD route looks pretty good from my end. Why not Bankstown though? Courtesy bus from Bankstown to the CBD and a ~6am Bendigo departure would have people in Sydney for their meetings or whatever by 9am. Can't see Bendigo to Melb ever working though. It just doesn't add up :bored: