£5m appeal to get a Shackleton flying

[Heathrow Harry]

BBC News - £5m Shackleton plane appeal launched in Coventry (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-21726075)

A £5m appeal has been launched to get a Shackleton aircraft back in the skies.


The plane clocked up about 15,000 hours of service for the RAF from the 1950s through to its retirement in 1991 and is currently at Coventry Airport.
The plane is one of only two models still capable of turning its engines, with neither able to fly, organisers of the appeal said.


It is hoped mechanics will have the plane taxiing in two months and flying within seven years.


Dave Woods, chairman of the Shackleton Preservation Trust, said the focus for the next two years was to ensure the trust had the necessary funds to complete the project.


Mr Woods said: "At this moment there are no Shackletons capable of flight anywhere in the world. There are only two that are capable of turning their engines so we thought it would be a nice idea to put '963' back in the air. She was developed from a wartime Lancaster. She's had a very long and distinguished career and protected Britain from the Cold War attacks right to the end of her life. She's one of the longest serving aircraft the RAF has had."

[mmitch]

For anyone who has followed their efforts elsewhere they deserve to succeed.
Dare I say it, all the money raised will go to getting a Shack back in the air.
mmitch.

[Sir George Cayley]

The Gatwick Museum has 2 shacks of which WR982 J is a runner. Following Peter Valance's death I wonder if these examples might be part of the story?

SGC

[pmills575]

The Gatwick Shacks are both Mk3's, despite the same name they are actually quite different. We do have a number of MK 2 spares and Coventry are aware of our offer to assist where we can. They of course have a large spares holding and we probably do not have anything that is not in their inventory. However, as I said we will certainly assist where possible.

There is also the likely prospect that WR974(K) will be dismantled and become a walk through exhibit. In this way we can preserve her indoors and she is available to donate a few Mk3 spares to Juliet.

We wish the Shackleton Preservation Trust good luck in their endeavours and will support them in any way we can.

pm575

[Tiger_mate]

I have been an aviation enthusiast all my life, and even a few years ago would have supported this project 100%. However times have changed, and in this austere day and age, if they are sucessfull in raising £5m it will prove beyond all doubt that there are some with money to waste.

I assume that the sudden need to promote this is due to Air Atlantic ( or Air Antique as the historics were known) relocating to St Mawgan. Especially if the rumours of Coventry Airports proposed closure have some foundation to them.

It would probably cost less to purchase and restore to flying condition the US based example. Behind the smoke and mirrors of the UK one is a need to move it or scrap it I suspect. As the US one flew as an 'experimental' aircraft, will BAe even underight auch a project?

[Richard Woods]

Hi all,

The return to flight is a natural progression for what we the Shackleton Preservation Trust are doing with WR963 and a long held aim. Look at the core reasons for our Charitable Trust (1020951), listed on the Charities Commission site.

As many will have noticed, the aircraft went on the civil register recently as G-SKTN, and the Permit to Fly application will be going in shortly; which will be when the hard work starts.

£5M is a big number though. We worried about putting the figure out after the estimates were done as it would cause shock. But that's what it will cost to get a Shackleton in the air that is good for decades.

Tiger_mate -

Everything we do is transparent and in the public eye, you can find us on a number of forums, or on Facebook with little effort. We make no secrets of what we're doing with our aircraft, and I'm a little annoyed by your suggestion of 'smoke and mirrors'.

There's no underlying reason to doing this other than the desire by many to see a Shackleton fly in the UK - and certainly not due a need to scrap or move the aircraft, Air Atlantique's relocation, or an airport closure. (again..? where did that rumour come from? :confused: )

In terms of purchasing WL790 and restoring it to flight - it would cost as much as WR963 and require the same work if that aircraft wanted to fly in the UK. It has the same, known, long standing spar fatigue and cracking issues which prompted the CAA to refuse any Shackleton a Permit to Fly so far.

BAE underwriting our project is not a concern as they sold the design and rights to us in 1993. Help if you want, or if you can - if not, then just watch anyway and enjoy the journey with us. :ok:


Peter Mills -

Many thanks are already due to you all at Gatwick for the kind gift we received this weekend of documentation for WR963. It was very much appreciated.


Kind regards,

Rich W
SPT

[Agaricus bisporus]

£5M on a Shackleton of all things!

Why?

[Wander00]

Better value than what has been spent on the Tin Triangle ..................I'll get my coat

[gayford]

I am with Wander00 on this and am concerned that the Vulcan saga will have reduced people's willingness to fund this project. Hope I am wrong.

[gsa]

Why?

Because 8 screws are better than 4 blow jobs.:oh:

[Biggus]

And once/if* (* delete as applicable) they get if flying, how much a year every year thereafter to keep it in the air?

[WhiteOvies]

Personnally I think it would be great to see the Shackleton back in the air.

A recent visit to Coventry, where the Shackleton sits just across from a Nimrod allows a very interesting compare and contrast of UK MPA technology. As I've also an occassional reason to wander through a P-8 it's even more staggering.

I think what got me most was how similar the Shack and Nimrod cockpits were....certainly compared to the P-8 glass screens

[thowman]

You would think the VTTS would be happy to help supply the email address of all of their supporters once the Vulcan is finally retired to help widen the possible funding audience?

[ImageGear]

This one should be still around - Capetown Shack (http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/aircraft/227/shackleton-mr-3-museum)

I followed one into Capetown and even though I was well behind it on a long final the ride was somewhat exhilarating in a Piper Arrow.

Imagegear

[AtomKraft]

The one at long Marston (WR985/ H) could do with moving/ saving.

It's sad to see an aircraft like this just abandoned to rot.

Not beyond saving.......yet.

[haltonapp]

And while we at it we should raise some money to keep a VC10 flying, and are there any other types that we have romantic affection for? What a waste of time and money, and as they say on Dragons Den, I shall not be investing!!!

[Wensleydale]

Having flown in the back of a Shackleton for 5 years (not continuously) I would love to see one back in the sky. I have one large concern though.... the Shackleton is from the line of its famous relative, the Lancaster, and with the BBMF flying the RAF's Lancaster and the Panton Bros also raising cash to get "Just Jane" airborne then there may be overkill in 4 piston engined Avros in flying condition in the UK with the Shackleton seen as second best at an airshow. I also hope that the fund raising exploits of one project does not hamper the other so that both fail to reach their targets.

[Speedywheels]

I say good luck to the Shackleton Preservation Trust and WR963. I am sure they are well aware of the enormous task to return the Old Grey Lady to the air but I think she is a worthy candidate to preserve a little heritage of the RAF and specifically Coastal Command.
The Vulcan is retiring to permanent confinement to barracks after this year's display season and although to most ears the sound of 4 Griffons might not stir quite the same emotions as the Olympus howl, I'm sure the Shack will draw a loyal following and,hopefully, some deep pockets. To the detractors, you obviously have a choice not to contribute but I struggle to understand the negativity you display for the SPT's efforts to follow their dream and get WR963 back in the air.
It would be great to hear those Griffons drone above the display line at FI2020 - bring it on:ok:

[PeregrineW]

A waste of time and money? I bet you couldn't find one decent project anywhere, in any area you care to mention, where that accusation hasn't been levelled. God knows I heard that from my ex-wife enough times...

Anyway, you pays your money, you makes your choice, as they say. I never flew in Shacks, or worked on live ones, but we did have WR974 "K" in our hangar at Cosford as a ground instructional airframe back in the eighties, so I have a soft spot for the old girl.

Put me down for a few bob, Rich.

[Tiger_mate]

A large four engined aeroplane is too expensive for the air show world as demonstrated by both B17, DC6 and Super Constelation struggling to remain viable. The East Kirby Lancaster would get the public vote with regards to donations.

Set aside the rose tinted specs and there are a thousand better things to spend five million pounds on. The Vulcan is unlikely to be in its final year, a rumour direct from the horses mouth. Its time will come, but not just yet, and regardless of how close the end is going to be, there is a business model in place for its life on the ground.

Passionate enthusiasm is laudable, but must be tempered by a realistic business model, and contributers are effectively shareholders without dividends. The only saving grace is that at least £5m is a believable fiqure rather then a low start aspiration followed by expenses creep as time moves on. What are the long term plans for the aircraft if it does fly again?

[oxenos]

Perhaps the MOD could be persuaded to contribute. It would give the country some asw capability.

[ComJam]

Erm....as much as I enjoyed watching the old Shack..and thoroughly enjoyed 8 Sqn "Gambia" formation travelling around Scotland on 8/8/88...it's hardly a Vulcan or a Lightning is it..

Now if we get the Mosquito airborne or the second Lanc...there is a plan for a Shar as well... :D

[Wensleydale]

It would give the country some asw capability


Bit difficult as she is an AEW Mk2 - unless the owners have absolutely no taste and are converting her back to an MR2.

[BEagle]

It would be great to hear those Griffons drone above the display line....

Drone? DRONE?? Shacks don't drone, they GROWL!! And yes, I hope that the old girl will one day fly again.

[Wensleydale]

Perhaps the MOD could be persuaded to contribute


Back in the day, the BBMF Lancaster pilots used to carry out their pre-season 4-engine tail dragger training on the Shackletons at Lossiemouth in order to save wear and tear on the Lanc. Perhaps this could be a source of revenue for the 963 project?

[Sir George Cayley]

Having poured taxed income into various cars and planes I'll defend anyone's right to do the same on any scale.

Although I have some concerns about value for money in the Vulcan's case, the freedom of choice should be celebrated not attacked.

SGC

[Stitchbitch]

Wensleydale, not sure if he's back this season, but last season BBMF had an ex-Shack FE operating the Lancs donks.:ok:

[Wander00]

So what do we all see as priorites for returning historic aircraft to the air. Mosquito(s) flying, but will be good to see one in UK, Beaufighter on its way: what else would be good and reasonably feasible?

[oxenos]

Wensleydale
She has been converted BACK to an MR Mk 2. Just like she was when I flew her in the late 60's, and before some bunch of vandals turned her into an AEW.

[GeeRam]

So what do we all see as priorites for returning historic aircraft to the air. Mosquito(s) flying, but will be good to see one in UK, Beaufighter on its way: what else would be good and reasonably feasible?

Not going to see a Beaufighter in the air anytime soon, or possible ever, unless a solution to the lack of suitable engines/props is solved, and given TFC have been trying/searching unsuccesfully for a solution to that for the best part of 20 years, I wouldn't hold your breath.

[Wander00]

GR - but the Beau airframe seems to be coming on well - but I can appreciate that Hercules engines are hard to come by

[Wensleydale]

She has been converted BACK to an MR Mk 2


That's a waste of some of the money then.....:=

[Richard Woods]

Not in the long run. An MR2 weighs less than an AEW2 and doesn't use up the airframe life quite so quickly. If you had a choice of getting 4,000 odd hours or 6,000 hours out of your rebuilt aircraft - what would you go for? (bear in mind we're only looking at 100 - 150 hours usage a year when WR963's done.)

:ok:

[ozleckie]

She has been converted BACK to an MR Mk 2. Just like she was when I flew her in the late 60's, and before some bunch of vandals turned her into an AEW.


Praise the Lord . It's a miracle :D

[bingoboy]

I doubt that the average man on the street knows what a Shackleton is/was or has an urgent need to see one fly.
Large aircraft seem notorious for consuming large sums of money to rebuild, maintain and operate in flying condition.
Therefore I shall not be contributing but we are in a free country.

PS I would have loved the Shorts Solent (?) to have remained airworthy and in this country. The sight of it at Poole in 1976 is one I will never forget and as an island country such a machine has a great story to tell.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Quite. Far more to the point.

[turbroprop]

It's all a waste. It might be ready to fly in seven years, but will Coventry still have a runway by then? Spend the money of Just Jane. Four merlins sound much better than the griffons fitted to the Shack.