View Full Version : Fifth Gear
dunc0936
4th Mar 2013, 19:39
Watching the new series of Fifth Gear, in the team test they were standing in front of a Nimrod. in the background were VC10's and a HP Victory and I have seen Buccaneers and the Guppy.
I did a google search and the Airfield is either Brunntingthorpe or Kemble???
Dunc
NutLoose
4th Mar 2013, 20:24
Bruntingthorpe, they do car testing there and they do track days, if you have never been its well worth a visit when they do the Thunder run, Lightning pair, x3 Buccs, Nimrod, Jp, Canberras, Hunters, Victor all doing blasts up and down the runway, reheat on where fitted, excellent photo opportunity as you stand by the side of the Runway.
The Tens get broken there as do some Hercs, one Ten is slated to remain there as a runner
NutLoose
4th Mar 2013, 20:30
Here you go, couple of my pics
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/Brunty/Bucc3.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/Brunty/Bucc4.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/Brunty/Light1.jpg
Buster Hyman
4th Mar 2013, 20:42
Love that second shot Nutty. Shows off the sculptured look to a tee. None of this square edges nonsense! :ok: Built at a time when there were no rules as to how a jet should look.
BEagle
4th Mar 2013, 20:47
Built at a time when there were no rules as to how a jet should look.
Just 'area rule'....:ok:
NutLoose
4th Mar 2013, 20:50
Well as you do
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/Brunty/Bucc8.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/Brunty/Bucc9.jpg
dunc0936
4th Mar 2013, 20:53
I take it these are all privately owned? And either are not aloud to fly or can't?
NutLoose
4th Mar 2013, 20:56
Yes they are privately owned, they do shows, go on you tube and look for Thunder Run bruntingthorpe, I forgot to add the Sea Vixen in the list of runners.
They are kept to airworthy standards as they were maintained in the RAF but are not airworthy and cannot fly, the Victor accidentally got airborne and landed again a couple of years ago, considering it had been grounded for 20 odd years it was a testament to how it had been looked after that it returned safely to earth, that's on you tube too..
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/Brunty/Bucc7.jpg
Permission to become aroused Sir!
dunc0936
4th Mar 2013, 21:16
Im thinking private airforce. Still could do some serious damage in the right hands
Rhino power
4th Mar 2013, 21:21
For some excellent pics etc on the restoration of the Buccs and some of the other aircraft, have a look here- The Buccaneer Aviation Group - Restorations (http://tbag.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=Restorations)
-RP
NutLoose
4th Mar 2013, 21:25
The fast runs and runs are done by Ex RAF pilots who used to operate them in Service, they are far from cowboys with toys and they all take things very very seriously. As for anyone getting in one and stealing it, the place is like Fort Knox with dog patrols etc as it doubles as a car storage facility for major manufacturers new stock and were talking the higher end, even the police use it for storage. A lot of the aircraft when sold were demilitarised with wiring looms etc cut
RAFEngO74to09
4th Mar 2013, 23:23
Buster,
Actually the Buccaneer was built at a time when there was a rule how aircraft should look - the "Area Rule" - which was successfully applied to fighters up to the F-105 and F-106.:
Area rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_rule) .
Subsequently, the statically unstable upstarts that relied on black boxes (eg F-16, F-15) came along !
Buster Hyman
5th Mar 2013, 01:25
Is there nothing that you cannot learn on Pprune??? :ok::ok::ok:
not aloud ..............
they are very LOUD...........especially when reheat is on.
CoffmanStarter
5th Mar 2013, 06:36
And machines milled from solid alloy not plastic glued together ... outstanding BRITISH engineering that once led the world :D
diginagain
5th Mar 2013, 06:47
outstanding BITISH engineering
I no its erly, but come on....
Is there nothing that you cannot learn on PPRuNe???
The dangers of speed-typing???
dunc0936
5th Mar 2013, 07:41
The fast runs and runs are done by Ex RAF pilots who used to operate them in Service, they are far from cowboys with toys and they all take things very very seriously. As for anyone getting in one and stealing it, the place is like Fort Knox with dog patrols etc as it doubles as a car storage facility for major manufacturers new stock and were talking the higher end, even the police use it for storage. A lot of the aircraft when sold were demilitarised with wiring looms etc cut
Please don't get me wrong, did not mean to that these guys would be cowboys. Just meant that if the RAF got short of aircraft that with all that kit and skills you guys have you would be able to offer your services, either in combat or a training support role. Shame none of them fly. Certainly did not mean stealing any of them. If I owned one I'd hope the security was high. Excellent investment, probably better return than putting your money in a bank.
CoffmanStarter
5th Mar 2013, 08:00
:ok::ok::ok::ok:
Pontius Navigator
5th Mar 2013, 08:49
If area rule was good why would it fall out of fashion? While a black box may enable you to fly an unstable aircraft did area rule make it ultra stable?
Just curious how designs go in and out of fashion - the swing-wing of the 60s (US) and 80s (UK) gave was to the twin tail of the US and USSR and Iran :).
Civil wise from embedded engines (UK) to tail mounted (UK, US, USSR, France) to underwing pods.
I think that area rule was not related to stability, but for drag reduction in those designs that used it.
Ripline
5th Mar 2013, 10:10
Permission to become aroused Sir!
Well, AR1, the next Cold War Jets Day is on Sunday 26th May (if you can wait that long).
Fill yer boots......
Ripline
Courtney Mil
5th Mar 2013, 10:59
Subsequently, the statically unstable upstarts that relied on black boxes (eg F-16, F-15) came along
Not the F-15, Mate. Flies perfectly well with straight forward manual controls.
denachtenmai
5th Mar 2013, 12:30
in the background were VC10's and a HMS Victory
There, fixed that for you, Regards, Den.
I know, hat coat etc
I was just surprised someone was watching Fifth Gear :eek:
Argonautical
5th Mar 2013, 15:08
While on the subject of "Car Programs", who spotted the Su-30 during the last Top Gear?
You can fly into Brunters on the fast taxi days. Went last year, taxiways not in brill condition so keep the speed down but great day out. Think the next one is in May sometime.
If area rule was good why would it fall out of fashion? And one I've pondered before this came up - A rule is a rule right? especially in Physics.
The suggestion in the article is that it hasn't gone away, but is achieved by more discrete means than fuselage shaping.
I'm not an aircraft designer so there my ability to comment ends, apart from being introduced to the concept by the lovely waisted fuselage of the F5.
Just This Once...
5th Mar 2013, 18:14
Even airliners use area rule, so very much in fashion.
:ok:
Plastic Bonsai
5th Mar 2013, 18:55
Cessna hired the discoverer of the Area Rule Richard Whitcomb to work on their Citation X. Very strange shapes resulted but it's very fast.
Trouble is the results appear counter-intuitive. Kingston area ruled a single seat Hunter but you could barely see it and it made no difference. When they made the 2 seater it was faster than the single seater with a less powerful engine.
The Bucc was good with a profile drag coefficient around half the typical value and they reckoned it wasn't quite right and could have been lower. But you have to do a few unfashionable thing like faired in drop tanks, T tail, internal bomb bay etc to get the lowest drag.
Today in Mil FJ the attention is paid to the boxes, not the aerodynamics though they have little effect on your range and speed.
As I remember the T4 and T5 Frighting were faster than the single seaters because of the bulge at the front to fit the two seats in. Altered the area rule thingy apparently.
GeeRam
5th Mar 2013, 21:16
While on the subject of "Car Programs", who spotted the Su-30 during the last Top Gear?
Me sir......:ok:
Wensleydale
6th Mar 2013, 07:15
You can fly into Brunters on the fast taxi days. Went last year, taxiways not in brill condition so keep the speed down but great day out. Think the next one is in May sometime.
Not that fast taxi day then?
:) you knows what I means...
Departure instructions on the day...we went before the thundering up and down the runway had finished 'Oh just take off on the taxiway, keep to the right hand side though or your wheels will come off'....
dunc0936
1st Apr 2013, 19:29
Are there jaguars at bruntingthorpe as well? Sure i have just seen some on tonights fifth gear. Always wondered what happened to them
NutLoose
1st Apr 2013, 20:02
Yes, there is the engineless one painted in bright Green, it is currently being worked on and a search is on the go for parts to get it back to running condition, needs a couple of engines amongst other things, they could upgrade it and buy a couple of leafblowers off the Shopping Channel. :O
Most of the ones not bought from the RAF are training aids at Cosford for the Sprog Engineers, several do taxying but have had the reheat baulked I believe, there is also a bunch of taxying examples at Cranwell to train Sprog Eng O's
The others that were sold are at Bentwaters and for sale, google Everrett Aero.
Indeed the RAF finding they were short of a runner had the ignominy of having to buy one back.
Corrected post to read Cranwell, slight brain dump.
Trim Stab
2nd Apr 2013, 05:04
Cessna hired the discoverer of the Area Rule Richard Whitcomb to work on their Citation X. Very strange shapes resulted but it's very fast.
The Germans used the Area Rule on some of their advanced aircraft towards the end of WW2, so I don't think Whitcomb discovered it.
Maybe Hollywood are planning a film..
BEagle
2nd Apr 2013, 07:05
...several do taxying but have had the reheat baulked I believe...
How do they get them moving without any reheat?
;)
spamcanner
2nd Apr 2013, 08:52
The only aircraft designed with reheat that do fast taxy runs at Brunty (to my knowledge) are the Frightnings and they definitely use it on their runs.
Not for very long though! :)
An interesting video from Bruntingthorpe here. I know the 1198 has been superceded by the 1199, and there's also BMW's S1000R now, but it's still entertaining, and shows the difference between cars and bikes.
Hi, PN.
I don't think the area rule has gone out of fashion; because it's a fundamental law of nature. I think it has just joined the growing body of knowledge and technical capability that aircraft designers call on as they ply their craft.
The technical capability to use computers to fly an inherently unstable aircraft is a win-win outcome of basic physics; less weight, increased agility.
The key is, increasingly, the power to exploit fundamental properties of nature by using the enormous capacity we now have to process information.
Rgds SOS
sled dog
4th Apr 2013, 17:59
Has any Fifth Gear watcher checked the Area Rule on Vicki Butler-Henderson..................
Sandy Parts
5th Apr 2013, 12:35
many years ago, one of the 'fast-car' mags came with a free recording (might even have been a cassette!!) of VBH experiencing passenger rides in a variety of sports and race cars. I think the idea was to listen to the soundtrack of the engine and exhaust note but I found VBH's screams and laughter far more appealing!:E Great lass - obviously loves her work :D
tommee_hawk
5th Apr 2013, 23:35
I've asked to represent the government of a reasonably close-by country that may/may not become independent after, say, 2014 and may/may not be on the lookout for our/their own ready-made, previously cherished Air Force. Apparently we, (sorry) they, might only get 2 Hercs and a Red Arrow from our/their present constitutional partners, so a few Buccs going back home to EGQS, a Nimrod and a not so shiny 10 could be useful additions to our/their fleet.
:ok:
MATELO
5th Apr 2013, 23:53
the Victor accidentally got airborne and landed again a couple of years ago
Good job it was a couple of years ago, otherwise N. Korea would think we are warming up.
Has any Fifth Gear watcher checked the Area Rule on Vicki
Butler-Henderson..................
After I left the RAF Regt, and as I studied to do what I now do full-time (no resettlement for that then!) I worked on Max Power/Car/Classic Car/Practical Classics magazines . Max has an unfairly skewed and much maligned legacy. Vicky was a cub when it started back in the day, and her enthusiasm and talent was obvious. Deffo a girl to enjoy having a few beers with.