EASA licence updates

[Camp Freddie]

Having just got my shiny new EASA licence, I note that they didn't update on the new licence one of the type ratings that was revalidated and paperwork sent in about the same time as the licence application itself.

When I called them they said it was a mistake, that they did have the PC paperwork and would be sending out a new updated licence, in the meantime they said to carry the updated ratings page from the old JAR licence where the examiner had signed it off.

This got me thinking about the paperwork process.
1) will they be sending out a new licence now every time there is a new event, to replace where the examiner writes on it?
2) if so, how long should I leave it before I make the assumption that they have never received or lost the paperwork?
3) if so, this sounds like thousands of pieces of paper will now start flying around where previously there was none, not very 21st century is it?

They seem to have created a pig in a poke as far as I can see

[Helinut]

Its the same old story, I am afraid:

More unnecessary bureaucracy to keep the bureaucrats employed, less flying for pilots and more costs for everyone.

[Curtis E Carr]

1) If you mean that every time an examiner signs a licence for the revalidation of a rating, or the renewal of a rating that has expired for not more than 3 years and/or has not been moved to the rear of the license, the answer is no, you will not be getting a reprinted licence on those occasions.

2) Not applicable

3) Not directly applicable but the premise of your statement is, in my opinion, correct.

[SASless]

21st Century....oh yes....absolutely! (As organized by Bureaucrats seeking to feather their own nest!)

[Camp Freddie]

Mr Carr,

1) If you mean that every time an examiner signs a licence for the revalidation of a rating, or the renewal of a rating that has expired for not more than 3 years and/or has not been moved to the rear of the license, the answer is no, you will not be getting a reprinted licence on those occasions.

there is only limited spaces on the certificate of revalidation, so are we supposed to ask for a new licence every so often or will they be sending out a new one every year? or other fixed period?

[Curtis E Carr]

I know of several people who have found themselves exactly in the position that you have described. When this was pointed out to Handbrake House, they were issued with a blank Revalidation form not dissimilar to that which is currently part of the UK/JAR licence.

When the next licence event takes place e.g. addition of a new type rating or renewal of an old one, Cash And Aggro will issue a new licence with all the out-of-date stuff removed thus freeing up more spaces ........ theoretically.

[heliski22]

My 17-year old daughter recently sent me this definition of Heaven and Hell...(with apologies to my Italian colleagues! ;))

Heaven...is where the police are British, the chefs are Italian, the mechanics are German, the lovers are French and it's all organised by the Swiss!

Hell...is where the police are German, the chefs are British, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss and it's all organised by the Italians!

Welcome, Bienvenu, Benvenuto, Willkommen, Bienvenido, Velkommen, Welkom, Välkommen (just a sample)...to Europe and the land of EASA!

[hueyracer]

The only country (so far) that i can really recommend when it comes to licensing:
US of A!

That was the only time when i found the CAA (here:FAA) REALLY helpfull EVERY time i called them.

No "Send us a letter and we will respond to that (sending you an invoice first, then sending you some useless quotes from the regs).

[AnFI]

Paper certificates will soon be replaced with plastic (http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/emxLCisAtICifGohCidmiQCicNsEKO?format=standard)
The deadline is March 31 for personnel who have paper FAA certificates to replace them with plastic ones, which are harder to counterfeit. Certificate replacements cost $2 and can be processed online. Student certificates and temporary certificates do not have to be replaced.

$2 , online, plastic card, temporary certificate (issued for 120days after test until paperwork is processed).... just not hard enough - ridiculous!

Compare! :{

[misterbonkers]

AnFI - brilliant! :)

I guess that's the difference between an Administration and an Authority/Agency! :D

Clearly the staff at the Federal Aviation Administration go to work on a morning wanting pilots to go flying!

I understand that the UK CAA (now EASA) wouldn't contemplate issueing temporary certificates for licences because the system could be 'abused'. Hmm. I feel abused that it cost me one hundred times as much as the FAA equivalent AND I had to wait 3 months! How many FAA airmen are there? How many licence conversions are they having to do...! Can they cope?

[nigelh]

We all know our CAA are a bunch of morons . We all know that they are steadily crippling this industry . What I find amazing is that the people who fly under this bureaucratic cloud , steadily losing jobs , do nothing .
A bit like a stuck record I know , but I have been saying it for years and it has been happening , if anything , even quicker than I expected .
Without a major change of morons , and new cheaper AOC , s for small operators we will end up with two or three big operators covering the whole country . ( I don't care because it doesn't effect me ... But it's still a shame !!

[unstable load]

Without a major change of morons
Politicians come and go, civil servants are more permanent...:ugh:

[misterbonkers]

Servants? Ha! Not really serving much!

Unless undue hassle, expense and complication is top of the list! I suppose they could be serving each other by guaranteeing their own jobs for years to come.

[griffothefog]

Watch a few episodes of "Yes Minister" and you could be standing right in Aviation House, or wherever the are hiding these days.. :ugh:

Dial 1 for "Sorry no"
Dial 2 for "Sorry no"
Dial 3 for "Please go away"

As Nigel say's they have crippled the industry in the UK, but their pensions will be index linked and safe as houses...

FUBAR :=

[Hughes500]

Well just had to do renew a licence more than 3 years out of date ( old CAA one that has expired), took longer to do the paperwork than the flying

SRG 1102 7 pages
SRG 1104 7 pages
SRG 1199 can he speak English 6 pages
SRG 1173 another 6 pages
SRG 2138 6 pages ( 3 copies of 2 pages)
Course Completion Certificate 1 page

Wouldnt mind so much but answered the same questions about 5 times and signed it about 20.
I think the world has gone mad, no wait a minute the men in white coats have just turned up:ugh:

[500e]

The padded van called but Gramp's & I hid :E

[Curtis E Carr]

Hughes500

Excuse my ignorance but why was a SRG 1102 necessary?

[misterbonkers]

Is there anyway of setting up a questionnaire through PPRUNE for people to answer? I'm thinking about a legitimate one which we can gather as many peoples honest and fair views as possible and then submit it to both the CAA and the Parliamentary Ombudsmen?

How else can we get our views across? Could we have a sticky thread across ALL forums that links to a petition? Could we get 100,000 people to sign it so it gets debated in parliament?

[nigelh]

Hughes500 ... Out of interest what was the minimum hrs training he had to do ?? ( I know probably different in my case as I have over 100 hrs on type and am current using my FAA ticket ... As per another thread dealing with our morons !!)
Again I am repeating myself but I think all the small AOC,s should withhold payment and operate under leases . The only business they would not be able to do would be small one off,s like weddings , but equally it would open up new work which currently they cannot do ...( single into Battersea without floats , departing from a garden , single into Vanguard , night flights etc )
Ps night flights don't have to mean pitch black , just maybe landing 45 mins after sunset )

[Hughes500]

1102 for the application for licence and 1104 as CAA licence had expired

Nigel if rating is more than 3 years since expirery then you have to do the entire type rating course again 2 hours plus skills test plus 50 question paper on the ac. I have my own AOC costs currently are £ 10050 per year to CAA which includes one ac. 3 x audits at £ 600 an audit per year. Then all the costs of doing everything else. Is it worth it when you cant do this because single engine etc etc. Now why all singles cant be deemed the same as an R44 AOC i dont know that would cut the costs hugely and encourage more to do it properly

[Curtis E Carr]

Thanks, Hughes500.

I was, up till now, unaware that you required a valid UK licence to convert to an EASA one.

[Hughes500]

Curtis

No problem, i am just getting the chainsaw out to refill the printer !

[nigelh]

Hughes500 . I cannot believe that you make a profit paying effectively £13k a year ... Just to be told you can't do this flight , no floats . You can't do that one , garden not 1,000 acres with no object higher than 6" . You can't do that one either because you are landing 35 mins after sunset .
LEASE ... NO PAY CAA !!!!!

[Hughes500]

Nigel

you are right that it is difficult but having just got a 100 hour load lifting job which I wouldnt have got without makes the difference I suppose.
Having said that if I had an R44 then the bill would be about 1/10 of that which doesnt seem fair really

[Hughes500]

Nigel

Forgot to say that I am lucly using a 500 for pax carriage( calm down everyone I know its small) but my take off distance at mauw is a mere 231 m compared to twice that for an R44 and EC120. Now thankfully the CAA have issued the normal accleration to 100 ft which means in some cases i can cut that distance down to less than half if weight wind and temp is correct. BUT it is still difficult to tell customers that a single engine helicopter isnt allowed to take off vertically as it is not safe. One barrister i fly regularly says it would be interesting to test that in court as if it is unsafe with fare paying pax in then it must be unsafe, there are not degrees of unsafe for the same thing !!!!

[misterbonkers]

Ahhhh the good old H/V argument...!

[nigelh]

I have had some PM,s asking me about the lease flying I have been doing over the last 20 years or so . The answers are better on the open forum than private . So in brief ....
1). Is it legal ? Yes . It has always been legal to lease an aircraft to someone who then becomes the "operator". They pay you for the aircraft and then provide their own pilot ( who is acceptable to you ). These flights are categorised as Private hence you can throw away most of the rules regarding SE flight for AOC,s.
2). What documents do you need ? There are plenty of lease agreements out there . Just make sure the customer has signed the agreement . Make sure you only charge for the " rental period" and NEVER pay the pilot yourself as that is then a charter .
3). Have the CAA ever attacked this ? No , not as far as I am aware . It was in fact the CAA who told me I didn't need an AOC .
Fly safe and stick to the rules !!!

[Drhuid]

I have been abroad and now want to renew my JAR ATPL with the new EASA version. I cant get one because my multi-crew rating has expired. No problem under JAR but for Europe....Non!!
So now I cant even get a job after the end of the month! What a mess.:\

[tecpilot]

You can't get a licence without a rating (expired means without rating) and the change to EASA ATPL isn't a renew.

[AnFI]

is there actually a reason why you can't get a license issued if your ratings are not current ... surely you just can't use the license without a current rating.

is it a pointless inconvenience or is there actually a reason?

[Rotorgoat8]

Do any of you Canadian pilots know if there is a time limit as to how long you can fly and keep your Canada Registered Aircraft in the US. Any other requirements to bring it in?

[AnFI]

rotorgoat - not sure this is the place to ask about canadian registration issues - Thread is about EASA stuff

I guess the answer must be that it is just totally pointless embuggeration for the druid ( anyone else being pointlessly messed about? is this widespread? )

[tecpilot]

is there actually a reason why you can't get a license issued if your ratings are not current ... surely you just can't use the license without a current rating.

is it a pointless inconvenience or is there actually a reason?

simple question, have a look into JAR-FCL 2

JAR-FCL 2.025
Validity of the licence and revalidation of a rating
(1)
The validity of the licence is determined by the validity of the ratings contained therein and the medical certificate


Means, a licence without ratings is no valid licence and of course a non valid licence means no change into EASA papers. I wonder , why some guys reporting here, they have renewed their licence without ratings? This could only be some kind of old national speciality under JAR or a half JAR or...

I pray under EASA we all will live finally under the same sky and noname CAAs have to stop issues of wondrously and unfair licences.

[AnFI]

Well

a JAR license could be current but with no valid ratings - so what's the problem to issue a license with no current ratings? Obviously you can't actually use it untill a type is validated.... so just pointless embuggeration for Mr Druid then?

His embuggeration could be yours tomorrow...

a similar problem is the one about medical currency - your license can be current and valid (with a current type) but with an expired medical one cannot fly - no particular reason why a license should not be issued with an expired medical then ?
(there has been a slight recognition of this because now you can do a Prof Check without a currently valid medical)

Complexity is required to make (pointless) jobs - simples

[AnFI]

I am beginning to 'remember' why my great grandparents died resisting this style of administration... can't really understand what it is doing alive and well in the UK today...

but tecpilot does it all have to be so 'ordered' that you can't actually fly to your house? ... as I suspect is the case in your country?

Perhaps you'd like to live under 'our' sky maybe you'd enjoy that more?
The USA trusts it's citizens even more - imagine ONLY being allowed to learn to fly at an establishment APPROVED by an organisation (NAA) that does not know much about it - strange eh?

[misterbonkers]

Imagine;

All UK Drivers Licences must be replaced with new ERSA (R=Road) Licences by 2014. (happens also to be an Anagram).

Anyone who has not driven a minibus, motorbike, lorry etc in the last 3 years will lose this from their licence.

Everyone must pay a fee of circa £140 for a new licence.

Everyone must now prove their English speaking ability - even though their existing licence states nationality AND place of birth!

Everyone must learn the new highway code that consists of 2 x 1000 page documents (CRP804 & Part RCL). Approx 500,000 words all written in plain 'European' - containing lots of NEW ways of driving.

The motorway is now altered so the slow lane is the fast lane, fast is slow and middle is still the same (pleasing the stereotypical happily please admin type person who hogs it in their own little world).

Driving Schools who do not comply with the complex legislation lose their Approvals to train (even though their owners are trying to fly, earn a living, keep their finger on the pulse, read 500,000 words, interpret 500,000 words, try to understand 500,000 words, then re write the 500,000 words into their OWN version of the 500,000 words that is shorter, easier to read, seldom read, and subsequently re-approved by the people that contributed to the original 500,000 words.

Bus/Taxi/Coach/Lorry/Van Operators must also do the above.

GET THAT ONE PAST PARLIAMENT!

[AnFI]

Regulation is only imposed by the consent of the administered - the fact of the matter is the 'industry' appears to be consenting - so you get the regulation you deserve in the end.... sadly, tragically.

[misterbonkers]

Recent CAA correspondence ended with 'resistance is futile' - how the heck do you work round that?

It's all been imposed under the guise of safety - so if we resist are we looking to be unsafe?

[nigelh]

ANFI ..... You are the 1st to admit that :D
"Resistance is futile " ...... I guess as futile as our little country resisting the Bosch ? As futile , dare I say it , as the N Vietnamese resisting the USA ?
Afghanistan resisting .... Well everyone who ever tried to impose themselves over the last few hundred years ?!!!!!!!
That's PATHETIC . If you , as an industry , haven't got the bottle to stand up for yourselves ,that's fine . But DON'T whinge about it !!!!!!

[nigelh]

Sent my questions to '[email protected]' as instructed on 25th Feb . As you might have guessed .....No response :ugh: What a useless bunch of morons they are . ( to put it politely !!)

[OTGLU]

I can feel your pain.
I emailed the same address, which I got from the website, which I stated didn't have the information I wanted, and was then told to check the website.
Awesome!