Why didn'tb the RAF give the VC-10 a name?

[zarniwoop]

The VC-10 is the only aircraft in RAF squadron service from the post First World War era that didn't have an official name as far as I know, sticking with the manufacturers designation instead. I know the aircraft had a number of unofficial names, the Vickers Funbus being one of my favourites, but never an official one, does anyone know the reason for this?

[Exascot]

The Queen of the skies didn't need some punchy name she just spoke for herself - very loudly :ok:

[sisemen]

All the original C1's had names :\

The original Royal Air Force VC10’s were all named after Victoria Cross holders.

RAF VC10s (http://www.vc10.net/History/RAFVC10s.html)

anorak, door .....

[zarniwoop]

very loudly

I'm going to miss them blasting out and making the air crackle for twenty minutes after take off.

[Shannon volmet]

They did (or at least the engine guys did), it's just not printable, anywhere!

[arem]

always known as the iron duck in my old airline

[Nopax,thanx]

IIRC it was the only aircraft to be completely abbreviated.....

BAC VC10 C.Mk.1

[fantom]

Well, we in BAH had a name for it in c1970: Moonrocket.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

As the old saying goes... Are you a real Squadron Leader or a VC10 captain?

The aeroplane once looked very resplendent in its white livery... today's green, hemp, grey, or whatever else it might be called looks bloody awful.

[evansb]

"Vee-Cee Ten" sounds cool enough to me.. What would be next after the Viscount and Vanguard? The Vickers Victualler? Or perhaps the "Emissary"? The "Apostle"?

[JW411]

Which reminds me of the old one:

What does the Swift and a choir boy have in common?

They were both screwed by Vickers.

[McGoonagall]

Whatever the name my favourite flight ever was Brize - Sydney via Bahrein, Colombo and Perth in 1979 on a VC-10. Superb. :)

[Herod]

I think the old BOAC ad; "Try a little VC tenderness" is hard to beat.

[vctenderness]

I agree with that!

[PAXboy]

Probably because there is no quick way of saying:

"The most beautiful airliner in the world, second only to the refinement of Concorde, the Vickers VC-10 was one of the few machines that looked as good on the ground as she did in the air, actually that was one of the reasons you wanted to fly in her - because she looked so elegent, more than that, she looked right and there is the old engineering saying that if it LOOKS right - then it IS right - which certainly pertains here, although I have to say that not ALL the liveries showed her off best - for me it was the 'classic' BOAC with the Blue nose slipping back to the long blue cheat line on the windows and the clear BOAC lettering that made her look the best, not to mention the right angle to show off the tail and so there can be no doubt that she really is the Queen and that's even before the Conways wake up!"

or VC-10 for short. ;)

[crewmeal]

Well, we in BAH had a name for it in c1970: Moonrocket.

I thought it was called the "Brass Budgie"?

[cuefaye]

Naah; fantom's right, Moonrocket. Here he is, going for a post-flight beer ---

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o738/HaroldEdward/Muharraq_zpsdda128f0.jpg

[Herod]

I suspect that's Photoshopped, but it's a nice picture just the same. Did we have any operational Hunters when Transport Command became Support Command?

[sisemen]

Looks like a painting done by somebody who hasn't got the foggiest.

With the alignment of 'base hangar' there is nothing that side of it that could hold that many aircraft. And why the artist decided to put so many different types in the same spot beggars belief.

In short - load of bolleaux

[friendlypelican 2]

HEROD/SISEMAN,
Give him a break!
Transport Command became Air Support Command in 1967. During 1968 we still had 8 and 208 Sqns flying Hunters at RAF Muharraq (Bahrain). The painting is somewhat generic, but looks very like the RAF pan at Muharraq in 1968 when all the large AT types were regular visitors and the Argosies (ARDET) were a permanent detachment from RAF Benson.

PS. Definitely remember it being called the Moonrocket by the guys in the Middle East at the time.

[sisemen]

Yep. Could be Muharraq. I withdraw. Mea Culpa.

[Fareastdriver]

Looks like Muharraq. The blokes lined up behind the Hunter are looking out for skirt that will be coming down the steps..

[sled dog]

The props on the Britannia are not lined up, such slackness would not have been allowed in my day.....:{

[cuefaye]

sisemen

Clearly you never served at Muharraq. I was there for two years, partly as SFSO, and I can assure you that the area shown could and did hold at least that number of aircraft on a daily basis - and as many, sometimes more, different types. Why your blunt comment? I think the painting is hanging in the RAF Club nowadays.

Sorry sisemen - missed your mea culpa!

[RedhillPhil]

OK now, here's a little excercise, think up an official name for the VC-10.
I'll start with a continuation of the Vickers "V" theme (Viking, Varsity, Valetta, Viscount, Vanguard et al ) and go for "Viceroy".
I'm sure someone can do better than that.

[VictorGolf]

Wasn't "Superb" in the frame at one stage or was that it's successor? I know that when I was travelling around the Middle East, the sight of that huge blue fin and the gold Speedbird was a fair indication that I would be getting home that night. Unlike with some other airlines I wot of.

[JW411]

Definitely Muharraq; the Argosy could be 105 Sqn. We didn't disband until 31 March 1968 when we became Ardet (and I did no less than FIVE of those).

The Belfast looks as if it is going to tip on its a*se and I would have thought the 8/208 Hunter should have been a bit further to the right.

Incidentally, we had 8 Sqn and 43 Sqn (and 1417 Flight) in Khormaksar before we moved. It was decided that one Hunter squadron was to move to Bahrain and it would have been just as easy to have sent 43 Sqn.

However, some comedian decided to send 8 Sqn to join 208 Sqn who were already there. So, we had 8 and Naval 8 on the same unit. Naval 8 were actually senior but 8 did not like that and the conflict caused loss of sleep from time to time for those of us who had to fly 24/7.

[Jhieminga]

In 2006 Flypast magazine asked readers to come up with a suitable name for the VC10. See second item on this page: News Archive - 2005/2006 (http://www.vc10.net/news_0506.html)

One of the winners was 'Ascot', obviously inspired by the Air Support Command callsign. A lot of readers sent in 'Viceroy' and this was also a favourite of the editor. The RAF version of the stillborn V.1000 project would have gotten this name, it is presumed, and the VC10 is therefore a suitable successor.
IIRC it was the only aircraft to be completely abbreviated.....

BAC VC10 C.Mk.1

I cannot agree with you there I'm afraid. When BAC was formed the VC10 project was designated as an 'old account' project, which meant that it would stay on the books as a Vickers project. Any proceeds or losses would not go to BAC, but would stay on the Vickers books. Because of this I feel that it would be wrong to call it a BAC VC10, it was, and still is, a Vickers VC10.

[JW411]

" 'Ascot', obviously inspired by the 10 Sqn callsign".

The whole of Transport Command became Air Support Command on 01 August 1967. 10 Sqn had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the ASCOT callsign.

I quote from my history of 53 Squadron:

"Transport Command was given the new title of Air Support Command on 01 August. Wg Cdr Basil Taylor, who had been OC No.53 from 1958 to 1960 (Beverleys) was working in the Ministry of Defence at the time and saw this as a golden opportunity to find a new radio callsign to replace the old "RAFAIR" version. He was a keen student of the racehorse and, in cahoots with Wg Cdr Basil D'Olivera, OC No.216 (VIP Comets), came up with "ASCOT". This was officially expained away to his seniors (VCAS) when submitted for approval, as standing for "Air Support Command Operational Task". The callsign is still in use to this day!"

[Brian 48nav]

IIRC on 31st July '67 the last day of Transport Command, the Hunters of 1 and 54 at West Raynham were still part of 38 Group, the 'Tac' part of the command.

[JW411]

Well, now we are really going back in time. When I joined the Argosy force as a very sprog pilot in 1962, we had two masters within Transport Command; one master was based at Upavon (route flying 46 Group) and the other master was transport support operations (38 Group at Odiham).

38 Group was a Tactical Support Group and included Argosy, Hastings and Beverley squadrons. We also had two Hunter FGA squadrons, SRT transport squadrons and helicopters.

[Herod]

I stand corrected ref the picture; like I said, a nice one. Another name for the ten was "Freedom Bird" (depending on where you were going home from).

[evansb]

Hey RedhilPhil, Vickers Viceroy? That was the original name planned for the Viscount, but sensitivities to recent events in India resulted in calling it the Viscount.
There was an Airspeed Viceroy, by-the-way, built in the mid-1930s.

[sisemen]

Sorry sisemen - missed your mea culpa!

No probs.

Still reckon that there are a few scale and perspective problems with the painting though (sorry, I've got a professional artist in the family!).

[parabellum]

Had a total of eight years in Bahrain, with GF. If you were to stand with your back in the corner of the fencing that protected the taxiway and ran up the side of the hard standing, (now the freight apron), I think that picture would have been just about feasible in terms of space etc.

[Jhieminga]

The whole of Transport Command became Air Support Command on 01 August 1967. 10 Sqn had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the ASCOT callsign.

I stand corrected, I guess that I'm a bit too focused on the VC10 sometimes, I missed this bit of trivia. Thanks for the explanation, it's filed away now! :ok:

[BEagle]

When we first started flying the VC10K to the USA, we had to use the RAFAIR callsign, which caused great difficulty for the mononeuronic colonials. They called us 'Royal Air', 'Rough Air', 'Romeo Romeo Romeo' and various other perversions. Eventually a commonsense brain cell kicked in and all VC10s then used 'ASCOT' on overseas trips.

I remember the 'Mike plus 4' callsigns such as MBGFK or whatever. If I recall correctly, 45/58 Hunter Wing were once allocated Mike Alfa Foxtrot India Alfa for a trip to Denmark. As their boss said at the time "It's a good job we're not flying to Sicily!"...:hmm:

[teeteringhead]

PS. Definitely remember it being called the Moonrocket by the guys in the Middle East at the time. Exactly so. IIRC it was supposedly because it delivered the "Moonies", those whey-faced posted-in individuals who had not yet got their knees (or faces) brown.

The "Rocket" bit of course requires no explanation! :ok:

[Agaricus bisporus]

Well, an obvious "V" name for an aircraft in RAF service would be "Varlet" would it not?

[Fareastdriver]

The whole of Transport Command became Air Support Command on 01 August 1967

Did it? I was flying Whirwinds at Odiham then; nobody told me .

In that case I claim to have been in the first crash of Air Support Command when Chunk Lord (RIP) and myself wrote off XR 478 on the 7th August 1967.

[D120A]

Yes we did, F E D. But because we hadn't quite got round to painting 'Royal Air Force Transport Command' in white over the doors of our Whirlwinds when they came back from FEAF, a la Wessex, we didn't have to repaint them. AFAIK, we never quite got round to painting on the new command title either. Just the odd tiger or three. :ok:

Back to the thread, like many I will always think of the VC-10 as the Vickers FunBus. But 'VC-10' stuck at all levels, especially with passengers. When Aden was declared an operational area and the GOC addressed his troops he brightly said that, because of the conflict's new status, "you can now all win the VC!" A gloomy voice from the back of the ranks was heard to say: "The only VC that I want is a VC-10".

[alisoncc]

it was supposedly because it delivered the "Moonies", those whey-faced posted-in individuals who had not yet got their knees (or faces) brown.
Concur with that. Well remember being a "Moonie" in Muckrack freshly delivered by a 10 late '65.

[tornadoken]

The time for BOAC to invent a marketing class name (like Argonaut for DC-4M, Hythe for ex-Sunderland) would have been shortly before late-64 Standard VC10 inaugural Service. But by then passengers had become used to jet designations by type, not name (707/DC-8/CV880). RAF first delivery was 7/66, by when its identity was settled. I expect the reason that Vickers, then BAC did not produce one, was linked to (17/3) Jhieminga's Old Account/New Account point about profit/loss ownership. Later a dubble-bubble scheme was called Superb precisely to admit it as a common BAC project.

[Ron Cake]

VC 10 and Tony Blair

Everyone loved the VC 10 except, it seems, Tony Blair. A published account of his second term reveals that the 'elderly' VC 10 was despised by Blair for the antiquity of its comms fit and its embarrassingly old vintage compared with aircraft used by other world leaders. There was talk of acquiring for him his very own 'Air Force One'. It must be remembered that, at the time, Blair was in thrall to George Bush and was at the height of his messianic phase.

[Herod]

and was at the height of his messianic phase. He still is..

[Chris Scott]

FWIW, in BCAL (1971-on) we usually called it "The Ten". We sold our last VC10 at the end of 1974, and our first DC-10 didn't appear until a few years later - so no ambiguity for us.

[1151]

VC 10 and Tony Blair

Everyone loved the VC 10 except, it seems, Tony Blair. A published account of his second term reveals that the 'elderly' VC 10 was despised by Blair for the antiquity of its comms fit and its embarrassingly old vintage compared with aircraft used by other world leaders. There was talk of acquiring for him his very own 'Air Force One'. It must be remembered that, at the time, Blair was in thrall to George Bush and was at the height of his messianic phase.

I guess he ignored the fact it outperformed most of the other world leaders aircraft despite it's vintage. Can't see airforce one operating out of the same places the VC-10 could either. Mind you he also killed concorde, Maggie would probably have had one handed to the RAF and used it every trip to europe she could if the fronceh tried that on in her day!

[JW411]

One of the things that killed the VC-10 commercially was it's fuel consumption. It was a thirsty beast.

I remember meeting one of my old Argosy colleagues over Gander one night heading east. He was flying from IAD to BZN and I was flying one of Freddie's DC-10s from LAX to LGW. He had 139 passengers on board. I had 345 (plus 15 tons of freight).

Despite the fact that he was 2,000 feet higher than me, he was burning the same amount of fuel.

[John Hill]

I remember a VC-10 brought Betty Windsor to Rarotonga in 1974, that must have been a perk trip for someone!

IIRC it was British Airways not RAF?

[D120A]

I am sure I have said this before somewhere, but it's worth repeating here. It was jolly expensive modifying the RAF VC-10 for Mrs Thatcher; we had to remove the port wing and weld a second starboard wing to it.

Because she wouldn't fly in anything with a Left Wing attached to it...:ok:

[1151]

I remember a VC-10 brought Betty Windsor to Rarotonga in 1974, that must have been a perk trip for someone!

IIRC it was British Airways not RAF?

It was indeed a BA Aircraft, G-ASGR (although it should have been G-ASGD but that was under repair after a heavy landing in Antigua) one of the first to be painted in the full BA paint scheme after the merger with BEA. Flight Crew orders were still in the BOAC folders though.

[Bill4a]

I know I'm a bit late but at Akrotiri in the mid 70s she was 'The great white moonship'. I'm also pretty sure 'Ascot' was in use for TQF in the 60s. :}

[frieghtdog2000]

In the Gulf in the early seventies it was known as The Gohomey Bird. Taxiing out of Dubai the the Bristow crews used to bend their knees and "Salaam to the Gohomey Bird" as we passed.

[ORAC]

If the shiny fleet had to have a name then The Vanity would seem to be most appropriate....

[defizr]

I paid off a ship in Colombo and flew home in a VC-10. Our Captain, who was flying home with us, managed to blag us all a trip up to the cockpit. Really interesting.

[Discorde]

OK now, here's a little excercise, think up an official name for the VC-10.
I'll start with a continuation of the Vickers "V" theme (Viking, Varsity, Valetta, Viscount, Vanguard et al ) and go for "Viceroy".
I'm sure someone can do better than that.

To those of us who drove it the Vanguard was affectionately known as the 'Vibrator'. The freighter version (Merchantman) was, of course, the 'Guards Van'.

[PAXboy]

"Vivacious" ??

Nope, just the smooth running sound of the two letters and two numbers pronounced as a single number make a three syllable name that is Unmistakable and Unbeatable - just like the lady herself. :ok:

[Blacksheep]

On Brize LSS we referred to them by their tail numbers. When speaking in general terms, it was "The Vicar's Knickers".