Switching from Military to ME airline?

[MikeHoncho]

I was wondering how difficult it is to get onboard with one of the ME airlines like Emirates, Qatar, Ethiad etc.?
Currently making the choice to switch from the military to civilian as my Airforce is having a big reorganisation and I don't want to wait if I am still needed in 2 years from now.
At the moment I am flying as PIC on the C17 Globemaster. (I am Dutch by the way) the aircraft type I fly would probably indicate that I am US :-)

On the Emirates website I read that you need 2500 hrs on a modern commercial aircraft. I read this as that I can't apply because the C17 is not commercial. Is this correct? The other airlines seem ok to apply at although in the current market I can imagine that they rather take type rated guys.

What suggestions do any of you guys have on which airline to apply for.

I am slightly familiar with Dubai and surroundings because sometimes we crewrest there. (I know they check if you have porn on your computer :D ) But how is Doha for example? What place is good for a family with young children?

Thanks in advance

[viperburns]

I don't think you have to have type rated right away to be eligible. It s the globemaster for God's sake. If it s above 27K MTOW, why the hell not. I bet thst thing can haul more than that. You probably have a valid MCC, last I remember Qatar was hiring military pilots with MCC. They were asking for minimum 1000 fighter hours or 2000plus ME. It s us fighter jocks that are to worry before the leap. You should have no problem. I say get your ATPL, I bet you already have one flying as PIC and apply for one of them Middle East liners. Go through the hiring process. If they say yes, then get out and never look back. I don't understand the commercial witkd's infatuation with having a type rating. What s there to be type rated on? All automation , it s all office flying. With our military flying skills, we have no problem at all. But different mechanics is at play here. Pure economics.

[de facto]

It s us fighter jocks that are to worry before the leap. You should have no problem. I say get your ATPL, I bet you already have one flying as PIC and apply for one of them Middle East liners. Go through the hiring process. If they say yes, then get out and never look back. I don't understand the commercial witkd's infatuation with having a type rating. What s there to be type rated on? All automation , it s all office flying. With our military flying skills, we have no problem at all. But different mechanics is at play here. Pure economics.


Viper,
Ill have what you're having or smoking,whatever:p

[Iver]

Qatar operates 2 C17s and I believe a few are bound for the UAE as well. I am sure they would be familiar with your type.

[MikeHoncho]

Thanks Viperburns.
Yes I have ATPL and MCC so thats not the problem. Was just wondering how things are down there. Did you go to Sheppard for training or did you train in Turkey?

[mutt]

I'm based a little bit to the west of your target area (no pun intended) but for us military time is not acceptable, a guy with 1500 hrs in a Cessna 150 will get accepted before someone with 1500 in an F15.....

Stupid, but true...

Mutt

[RoyHudd]

Sympathies Mutt

[MikeHoncho]

Thanks for the input guys.

How is living in the ME? I am planning on visiting UAE and Qatar later this year and make up my mind then to send my resume to a couple of companies down there.

And Mutt I have some C172 time, can I get into your company? :-)

How far west are you? Saudi or further?

[poina]

Well de facto, with that attitude I'm sure you would suck at this easy office flying. I've had the pleasure to fly with a few great ex mil types and then there's the cocky ones like you who seem to get sent home early!

[CCDiscoB]

...military time is not acceptable, a guy with 1500 hrs in a Cessna 150 will get accepted before someone with 1500 in an F15..... Really!?
That may explain why my Emirates app was rejected within a few days.:{ Even though I have about 3k P2 in 744 and MD-11.
I too was curious about military to the ME airlines. I haven't heard of it, especially from here in the US. Not to say it doesn't happen. I read about many RJ pilots getting hired there however.:rolleyes:

[maghy]

MikeHoncho

In Emirates there is not a chance they will hire you if you're just out of the military. It has nothing to do with the "quality" of your flying hours vs commercial hours. It's the military mentality they are not so keen about.

For the other AL i don't know.

Good luck.

[clear to land]

I can think of a few guys on the Seniority List who WERE hired straight out of the military, but most of us ex-mil guys at EK did come via a previous airline.

[trimotor]

Even if you are on a civil type in military service and all the qualifying hours and licences, but no time in a civilian operation, the Emirates system will not allow your application to proceed. Dunno why.

[max AB]

It's the military mentality they are not so keen about

Maghy I resemble that remark..:E. I have no idea why EK don't take more military guys but I am guessing it is because they don't have to...at the moment at least. In the past they have and there are at least a handful of direct from the military pilots at EK, including fast jet. Why take a candidate with no commercial pax experience over one with I guess? Even though it may make little difference it is a difference none the less. The GCAA has approved Category D Flight Simulators for the use of Zero Flight Time training only for pilots with at least 500 hours in a turbojet Transport type aircraft....so a fast jet guy for instance is required to do circuit training in the actual aircraft...so why would an airline spend the money if they don't have to?

Mike I feel your pain...apply to them all and wait and see is my advice.

[halas]

Flown with one guy (EK) straight from the USAF flying a civilian type airplane there.

halas

[ironbutt57]

Just apply and see what happens....many here just like to discourage others...

[maddog62]

That may explain why my Emirates app was rejected within a few days

CCDiscoB, EK never rejects applications unless they're not filled in properly, expecially with the experience that you claim...

md

[Reinhardt]

What is a "military" pilot ? please guys explain to me....

Fighter, bomber ? transport, maritime patrol, tanker, basic instructor ?
Helicopter ?
Air Force, Navy, Army (and Coast Guards and Marines sometimes)

Straight from high school ? or sort of rocket scientist with advanced Engineering University degrees no civilian airline pilot will ever dream to get ? Test Pilot flying C130 Hercules as PIC in the morning and Jaguar NVG low-level the afternoon, and the same the days after with other aircraft ? (transport or fighter this pilot ?)

Having been only in charge of his aircraft, with minor ancillary duties on the ground, or with with Wing/Squadron command experience, with dozens of pilot and hundreds of ground crew under his authority, writing SOPs and checking other crew ?

Coming from a major Air Force - worldwide status, combat experience, recognised position at home - or from a completely wrecked and penniless demotivated military somewhere ?

Somebody with minimal time in a squadron because something probably happened (also looking at some countries with 5 years initial contracts, how do they manage to get advanced professionnal qualifications ?) or another one with 20+ years free of any desk positions ?

And desk positions... some of them totally out of range and conception for the average airline pilot, talking about "military pilots " with a knowledge ogf the matter not exceeding a couple of Hollywood movies ?

At least those people didn't pay for their training, and they had to pass a selection to get their wings (because, no you don't "join" the Air Force)

And fighter pilots, during their whole cursus, got used to see some others washed out as being slower... and reassigned to multicrew transport aircraft, so it does stay in mind for sure.

[Wizofoz]

Nice rant.

As to your question-

What is a "military" pilot ? please guys explain to me....


A 'military" pilot is one who has only flown for a Government run, non commercial operation.

I have no doubt they are great at what they do.

What they HAVEN'T done is operate in an environment where making a profit is key to remaining in operation.

If you were recruiting for a commercial operation and had the choice, who would YOU choose?

[The Turtle]

The one with the biggest tits......obviously

[BigGeordie]

"At least those people didn't pay for their training, and they had to pass a selection to get their wings (because, no you don't "join" the Air Force)"

You don't "join" Emirates either.....(Can't speak for Qatar or that lot up the road that we can't talk about but I would say the same is true for any half decent major airline).

[Reinhardt]

Nice rant Your writing is also "rant" - that's what this forum is all about.
I have no doubt they are great at what they do. Thank you for the patronizing... we can do without. If you had done both sides of aviation, you opinion would have some value. Now as I said, apart from a couple of Hollywoood military movies which you saw as a teenager...
What they HAVEN'T done is operate in an environment where making a profit Very funny, I didn't know this one ! As they cannot be attacked on their flying abilities, education or academic background, and also commitment to work, this one had to be found. Because it's so difficult to choose - or not - to take extra fuel with calculation already done by OPS - but yes, you also have to learn to talk to cabbies, because of course we had nobody in the back in Hercules or VC10...
As smart as saying :
"military pilots don't care about fuel' (?)
"only the mission is important, to the detriment of safety' (??)
"Korean pilots make hard landings, because they are ex-mil" (???)
"you cannot discuss with your boss in the Air Force" (????) (because you can in a civilian company ?)
"fighter pilot is alone in the sky" (????)
All of them from previous colleagues on Airbus and Boeing, and I'm still laughing...
If you were recruiting for a commercial operation and had the choice, who would YOU choose?
Ex-fighter pilots, because they are smarter, think quicker and have superior flying abilities, and they would not crash aircraft stupidly (look at cockpit composition of the past major accidents)
Commercial pilots... looking blankly for 20 + years at a F/D cross and staring at an instrument panel as motionless as the one from a drone, waiting for the LOC to turn green, and with only cabin crew as company during layovers... often the end product is not very impressive (but I've met a couple of smart ones already, to be honest)
Now the policy of the Gulf Airlines regarding ex-mils... is different from one operation to another (QR being apparently the most friendly) and has been changing on a regular basis in the past, with often qualified Air Force Captains (Airbus and Boeing) being hired directly.

[recceguy]

Not conclusive - US pilots are often the most chemical and illiterate of the community - like the aircraft they build, all in bull****ting and communicating.
When back to the real bone, not a lot of substance. So they don't represent the family in any way.
Now fighter pilots happen to crash their own fighter aircraft, because it's a difficult job, always on the edge - but when it's time to operate a two-man cockpit, how boring it becomes - like a slow-motion movie ( but it has to be done once retired, to pay the bill) so therefore yes, it's quite an easy job. That's what all of us think, and I credit Reihnardt for pushing it from his sandpit.
Obvious others think differently of our background - but mainly because they are jealous, and will NEVER have such a CV (and would never have got it, judging by the brainless specimens we often meet in cockpits)

[recceguy]

The problem is not the country and its aerospace industry/history, it's with his people, and especially his pilots.
So it's perfectly possible to churn out a big number of "pilots" without being a great aeronautical country (like Australia, Ireland : no Aerospace Engineering Universities, no aircraft building, no research facilities, no history)
and back to America :
1. in all those places, it's much easier to become a pilot, because you don't have to start by learning a foreign language - so the end product is statiscally less smart, that's unquestionable (same for Cabin Crew)
2. you become qualified by passing exams where you already know the questions of the databank (the famous red books) - even a 12-year old can pass that
3. by always putting the emphasis on praticability and "being basic", you get back what you put in the ground : "basic" people - and I'm polite.
4. all that is also true and verified for their military pilots : nice flashing smile, neatly dressed, square-eating, SOP known by heart... just don't drift out of the expected picture - but that's what the enemy often does, unfortunately.
So when talking about ex-mil pilots for ailines, please don't consider too much those from this country.

[Praise Jebus]

I must be statiscally less smart because I have no f'ing idea what you just said....I award you no points.

[Laker]

This forum is blatantly anti-french and therefore lacking in credibility.
If you insult the french, in a way never any jews, moslems or even worst, homosexuals would, fine, your posts would say forever.
If by misfortune you try to answer and to get some points equal in a factly manner, your posts get censored immediately.
For everybody to know.


The above statement is another gem from recceguy.

Didn't you cite the requirement to learn English as one of the reasons you are unquestionably smarter than Americans, Aussies, Irish, etc?

So based on the above quote and your prior posts in French, I'm assuming you are French? A country brimming with unquestionably superior airmen. I hate to point fingers but Air France has had several recent crashes that were a direct result of improper basic airmanship. AF358, AF447, the A320 slow flight into trees demo. During the process of achieving that unquestionably superior knowledge did the French collectively forget how to fly?

Obviously pointing fingers at nationalities gets us nowhere. The point I am trying to make is that humans make mistakes. Apparently even the French. The key is to learn from them and strive to avoid repeating them. Your attitude doesn't belong in a multi-cultural airline.

[donpizmeov]

I always get confused...who gave us the aqueducts?

the Don

[falconeasydriver]

I always get confused...who gave us the aqueducts?

the Don


It was those sandal wearing, vomitorium visiting, bigamous maximus lot from where they now sink ocean liners whilst trying to impress the ladies.....

Remember now?

Personally, I can barely stomach ex Mil pilots...I dam sure couldn't eat a whole one.

[The Dominican]

I come from the Dominican Republic, the place is known for beautiful beaches, great food and beautiful women, and I almost forgot, WORLD BASEBALL CHAMPIONS! Not so much for its aviation exports although there are a few of us outthere. I've been very fortunate to not only have flown, but also have trained many pilots from all over the world and from all sources, from the military institutions of different countries, people that came from P2F schemes, from little airport rats that are second and third generation pilots, to refugees from totalitarian regimes that were told their abilities were to be a musician, although their heart was in the clouds. One thing that I have come to understand is that good and bad pilots come from all sources and all nationalities, so much so that early on my training days, I just didn't ask people anymore what their background was, It was just a very unreliable way to measure how the day was going to go. But another thing that I have come to see is that pilots that criticize others based only on their origin, race, birthplace etc. are usually mediocre pilots themselves:rolleyes: