250,000 veterans of Arctic convoys and Bomber Command to be honoured

[HectorusRex]

Long overdue recognition!

250,000 veterans of Arctic convoys and Bomber Command to be honoured
Up to a quarter of a million Second World War veterans and their families will be recognised for their contribution to the Arctic convoys and Bomber Command, ministers are to announce.

250,000 veterans of Arctic convoys and Bomber Command to be honoured - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9893878/250000-veterans-of-Arctic-convoys-and-Bomber-Command-to-be-honoured.html)

By Holly Watt, Whitehall Editor
6:00AM GMT 26 Feb 2013

Mark Francois, the defence minister, will unveil the design of a new medal, in inset, the Arctic Star following outrage that the service of tens of thousands of veterans who served in the Arctic had not been properly recognised.
A new clasp for Bomber Command veterans will also be released following the opening of a memorial to the airmen in London last year, 67 years after the end of the war.
The Ministry of Defence estimates that up to 250,000 veterans, or their heirs, will qualify for the new awards. The awards had previously been turned down on grounds of protocol, but at the end of last year, David Cameron, decided the veterans should finally be recognised.
The first medals and clasps will be awarded to surviving veterans and their widows. Next of kin can apply and will also receive the award.
The design of the Arctic Star will be based on the campaign stars issued during the Second World War. Any veteran who served north of the Arctic Circle during the Second World War will be eligible for the award.
The Bomber Command clasp, which is intended to be worn on the ribbon of the 1939 to 1945 Star, will follow the design of the Battle of Britain clasp.
Using service records, the Ministry of Defence has estimated there may be around 120,000 recipients of the Arctic Star and 125,000 recipients of the Bomber Command Clasp. The convoys protected the supply lines to the Soviet ports of Murmansk and Archangel. The mission was described as the “worst journey in the world” by Sir Winston Churchill.
More than 3,000 seamen were killed during 78 convoys that delivered four million tons of fuel, food and munitions. Eight-five merchant ships and 16 Royal Navy vessels were destroyed. It is thought 66,500 men sailed on the convoys, but only 200 are alive today.
Almost half of the 125,000 men of Bomber Command died during the war, many killed by night fighters and anti-aircraft fire in raids over occupied Europe. However, amidst concerns about some of the bombing raids, there were no campaign medals specifically for Bomber Command after the war.
Mr Cameron told MPs he had accepted the recommendations of a review of military medals carried out by the former diplomat Sir John Holmes.
There are also campaigns for the recognition of survivors of the sinking of the Lancastria, a cruise liner sunk evacuating British troops from St Nazaire in France in 1940 with the loss of as up to 7,000 British lives.
The loss of the ship was the greatest single loss of life in British maritime history, but reporting of the incident was suppressed by Sir Winston, meaning the loss of life received little public recognition. Campaigners say a medal to recognise the few survivors would help right that wrong.

[CoffmanStarter]

Sadly a bit late for the Bomber Command many :(

But finally full recognition for their heroic and brave service during WWII :D

http://www.veterans-uk.info/clasp.jpg

And not forgetting the Arctic Star for the brave sailors who conducted Arctic Convoy "Frozen Hell" operations during WWII

http://www.veterans-uk.info/star.jpg

Bomber Command Clasp to the 1939-45 Star

A Clasp to the 1939-45 Star is granted to the aircrew of Bomber Command who served for at least sixty days, or completed a tour of operations, on a Bomber Command operational unit and flew at least one operational sortie on a Bomber Command operational unit from the 3rd September, 1939, to the 8th May, 1945, inclusive. The award of the Clasp is to be denoted by a silver rose Emblem when the ribbon alone is worn.

Eligibility is extended to those members of Bomber Command aircrew who did not meet the qualifying criteria due to service being brought to an end by death, wounds or other disability due to service, service marked by a gallantry award or taken as a prisoner of war.

Foreign nationals commissioned or enlisted into British or, the then, Dominion Air Forces (e.g. Royal Canadian Air Force or Royal Australian Air Force) are eligible provided the individuals did not receive a similar award from their own Government.

Eligibility to the Bomber Command Clasp has no effect upon eligibility for World War Two recognition previously awarded and does not suggest automatic eligibility for any further awards.

Arctic Star

The Arctic Star is granted for operational service of any length north of the Arctic Circle (66 degrees, 32’N) from the 3rd September, 1939, to the 8th May, 1945, inclusive. The Arctic Star is intended to commemorate the Arctic Convoys and is designed primarily for the ships of the convoys to North Russia and their Escorts. Eligibility is defined as follows:

• Navy and Merchant Navy – Naval and Merchant Navy service anywhere at sea north of the Arctic Circle to include, but not limited exclusively to, those ships participating in, and in support of, Convoys to North Russia. Fleet Air Arm Personnel, not qualified by sea service may qualify under the conditions applying to the Royal Air Force.

• Air Force – Aircrew of the Royal Air Force will be eligible if they landed north of the Arctic Circle or served in the air over this area. Non aircrew on operational service in the area, for example ground crew or those sailing with CAM ships (Catapult Aircraft Merchant Ships), are also eligible.

• Army – Army personnel serving in His Majesty’s ships or in defensively equipped Merchant ships qualify under the rules applying to the Navy or Merchant Navy. In addition, personnel taking part in land operations north of the Arctic Circle will also be eligible.

• Civilians serving with the Forces – Members of the few approved categories of civilians who qualify for Campaign Stars will be eligible if, in support of military operations, they meet any of the above qualifying criteria.

• Foreign nationals commissioned or enlisted into British or, the then, Dominion Forces (e.g. Royal Canadian Navy, Royal Australian Navy) are eligible provided the individuals did not receive a similar award from their own Government.

• General – Eligibility to the Arctic Star has no effect upon eligibility for World War Two recognition previously awarded and does not suggest automatic eligibility for any further awards.


Coff.

[peppermint_jam]

Couldn't agree more.

[Courtney Mil]

And Atlantic convoys.

[Ali Qadoo]

Delighted to see that these brave men are, belatedly, getting the recognition they so richly deserve. Those who served on the Arctic convoys are getting a gong too, as Courtney mentioned, which is also excellent news.

However, if you want a measure of how the government really views these men who gave so much, then remember that should any of the dwindling number of survivors be so selfish or thoughtless as to become infirm and require residential care, then their homes and savings will be confiscated to pay for it, while at the same time, the burgeoning ranks of the workshy and the self-invited receive the top brick off the chimney. Doesn't seem right, somehow.

[Courtney Mil]

AQ, good words, Buddy.

[Lancman]

Just too late for my brother, 35 ops and a caterpillar badge.

[Bill Macgillivray]

At last sense prevails! Bomber Command and Arctic convoy veterans richly deserve recognition from our "leaders". They already have it from most of us!

AQ,you are right but where do we start?

Bill :ok::ok::ok:

[sled dog]

Much, much too late. How many of these brave men are still alive ?

[offa]

Very few are still alive and I suspect the medal is the least of their concerns at this time in their life .... a decent war pension or some heating oil might be more helpful. I'll keep a picture of my Dad on the wall as a memory not a piece of metal handed out as a cheap and belated political apology.

[4Greens]

Better late than never.

[offa]

For who??? David Cameron? No post-war government even had the decency to shell out for a Memorial to the 55,000 who died in Bomber Command. It took one of the Bee Gees to get the ball rolling and raise private money in the end! The project was very nearly bankrupted when additional VAT was imposed. Dishing out a medal to garner a few votes when most / all the recipients have departed is politics at it's worst.

[CISTRS]

It is thought 66,500 men sailed on the convoys, but only 200 are alive today.

Dad sailed on in 1985. Convoy escorts to Halifax Nova Scotia at first, then Murmansk - Archangel in latter years of the war. Flush decker and then corvette.

Too late....

[Tankertrashnav]

Two years ago I met a former Wellington pilot who was celebrating his 90th birthday at the RAF Club. He was pleased to talk to an aircrew member from another generation. I was surprised to learn that he served in Coastal Command, not Bomber Command, in specially adapted long-range Wellingtons, flying sorties of up to 14 hours over the Atlantic.

This was dangerous uncomfortable flying, done at low-level, in the knowledge that the loss of one of his two engines would mean an almost certain death in the water, with no chance of parachuting into captivity. For this unglamorous but dangerous work he was awarded the Atlantic Star.

I would never belittle the men of Bomber Command - I am in awe of their achievements, but now that they have their long awaited clasp, are we going to award the unsung heroes of Coastal Command a clasp to their Atlantic Stars? If not, why not? My point is, once you start singling out one or two groups for special treatment, where do you stop? The campaign stars for World War Two were deliberately created as theatre awards to avoid special pleading - is it correct to change this after a 65 year gap?

[HectorusRex]

A disgraceful delay
Why did it take so long to award campaign decorations to survivors of the Arctic convoys and Bomber Command?

Veterans of the Arctic convoys and Bomber Command were victims of bureaucratic obduracy.

By Telegraph View
A disgraceful delay - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/9895334/A-disgraceful-delay.html)

7:27PM GMT 26 Feb 2013

The most obvious question to ask about the Government’s welcome decision finally to award campaign decorations to veteran survivors of the Arctic convoys and Bomber Command, and their close relatives, is why did it take so long? The heroism of the men who took part in two of the most perilous activities of the Second World War has been known for more than 70 years; yet the Ministry of Defence has displayed a baffling stubbornness in refusing to acknowledge their efforts.
Essentially, the MoD flatly declined to revisit decisions made in 1945 on the eligibility criteria for awarding decorations such as the Africa Star and the Burma Star. Unaccountably, the majority of Arctic convoy survivors, whose experiences were among the most horrendous of the war, received no recognition. They included men who had to swim for their lives in polar waters and spent months in Russian army camps. Their efforts helped the Soviet Union defeat the Germans on the eastern front – a contribution acknowledged by the Russians when they issued a commemorative medal of their own in 1985. The Queen permitted convoy veterans to wear this while they were still being denied a medal by their own country.
The story was not much better for the veterans of Bomber Command, who ran greater risks than any other Service during the war. Out of 125,000 aircrew, more than 55,000 died – a fatality rate on a par with the infantry in the First World War trenches. At least they now have a national monument in London to mark their sacrifice, though that took 67 years to erect.
There is no excuse for the delay in paying tribute to these brave men. They survived the war only to become victims of bureaucratic obduracy.

[Blacksheep]

Dad crossed the bar three years ago. He served north of the Arctic circle both during and after the war and therefore held two "Blue Nose" Certificates issued by the Court of King Neptune. He was proud enough of those to hang them on the wall. I don't think I'll apply for his medal: when on the North Atlantic veterans parades with his old ships company, he always wore the ones the Russians awarded him.

[Pontius Navigator]

Why the consistent refusal given the different Governments of different flavours and Ministers, many of whom also served? Various Lords of the Admiralty and Chiefs of Air Staffs?

The one consistent thing has been the dead hand of the Civil Service. Is it Sir Humphrey, always considering the cost, the precedence, the administrative burden etc etc?

[Tankertrashnav]

A disgraceful delay
Why did it take so long to award campaign decorations to survivors of the Arctic convoys and Bomber Command?



My point is they had already been awarded campaign decorations in the form of the Atlantic Star and Aircrew Europe Star respectively, a fact which some reporters seem unaware of - I have even seen the statement 'Bomber Command were uniquely denied a medal', which is total nonsense. I repeat my question made above: now these guys have had their extra medals, who next?

[Hugh Spencer]

As an ex-aircrew member of BC I can see that justice has been done with the award of a clasp to an existing medal. I would like to personally thank members of this website for the campaign that was run to get this award through when, at one time, the Bomber Command Association had, apparently, given up any attempt.

[Topsy Turvey]

Application procedure for Bomber Command Clasp & Artic Star medal + links to forms and helpline number (08457 800 900) detailed here.

Arctic Star and Bomber Command Clasp (http://www.veterans-uk.info/arctic_star_index.htm/index.htm)

TT

[Pontius Navigator]

It would be a nice gesture if the National Lottery Fund would offer to pay for remounting the extra medals along the lines of their Heroes' Return campaigns that they have run in the past.

There must be many amongst survivors and spouses that could ill afford to pay for remounting. NOK, on the whole, could probably afford the cost.

I know my MiL can ill afford the money to get her husband's medals cleaned and remounted and to purchase a new miniature. She will do it however come what may. She is far too proud to expect her children to contribute even though they would be willing.

[Pontius Navigator]

are we going to award the unsung heroes of Coastal Command a clasp to their Atlantic Stars?

. . . My point is, once you start singling out one or two groups for special treatment, where do you stop?

And not just the other Commands, in today's paper is a letter bemoaning the fact that as a National Serviceman he has to buy his own medal.

Can we have a QRA Medal please? :sad:

Sycamore, unless you were referring to the bit I already deleted, I was being ironic and referring to the man who wanted a national service medal. I was not suggesting seriously a medal for QRA etc.

PS,

I am a little disappointed that my suggestion that veterans be given funding to have their medals properly mounted has not had comment. As TTN shows, the medal may well be ranked higher than the France and Germany etc.

[sycamore]

PN,I would hope you would do the honourable.......out of respect..

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I interviewed my butcher as a schoolboy for a history project on the convoys. He had served on PQ17, amongst others. I was told years later after he died that he'd never spoken about it before or since, so I felt very privileged.
I do wonder how the suits at the MoD can live with themselves - deliberately waiting until enough are dead that the cost of the recognition, for this and many other similar cases, just fits the discretionary budget for the year. That's clearly what motivates them.

[November4]

Application forms completed for my late grandfather RN (Arctic Convoy - survived) and father's uncle (10 Sqn KIA)

May have missed it but where does the Arctic Convoy medal go in the order of the other campaign medals? My grandfather was awarded the 39-45, Atlantic, Africa and Burma Stars. I assume it is worn in order of being earned so in his case it would be after the Africa Star - awarded for Malta Convoys and service in the Med.

[Tankertrashnav]

WW2 stars have a set order of wear, irrespective of the chronological order of when they were won. Thus it would be possible for a Wellington Air Gunner, for example, to qualify for the Africa Star, then return to the UK and qualify for the Aircrew Europe Star. In spite of this, he would wear the Aircrew Europe Star first. No doubt there will be a statement about the new correct order of wear in due course, but I havent seen it yet

Correct order of wear at present is:

1939-45 Star
Atlantic Star
Aircrew Europe Star
Africa Star
Pacific Star
Burma Star
Italy Star
France and Germany Star

All this bearing in mind the Atlantic, Aircrew Europe and France & Germany Stars, and the Pacific and Burma Stars are mutually exclusive, ie only one each from the three/pair would be awarded. Where the Arctic Star will "slot in" I'm not sure, but after the Atlantic Star would seem logical. Another consequence of this new award will be that the maximum number of WW2 stars which may be worn will increase from 5 to 6. It will be interesting to see examples of 6 Star groups as and when they turn up.

[November4]

Thanks TTN - I didn't realise there was a set order to the wearing of the medals.

[Q-RTF-X]

My late father, prior to WWII, was articled to train as a ships officer in the merchant marine; he became disenchanted during the shipping slump of the 30’s after some time tied up alongside a wharf as part of the care and maintenance team and was allowed to break his articles. After holding for some time as an ambulance driver he joined the Cheshire Constabulary as a police officer. On outbreak of war in 1939 the police force was declared a reserved occupation and volunteering for military service was simply not an option. However, in 1942 (I believe) the attrition rate among aircrew was such that police officers were given dispensation to volunteer to serve in the RAF as aircrew; an option taken up by my father who was enlisted as a trainee air gunner. Ultimately he served as a rear gunner with 166 squadron basedat Kirmington flying in Lancaster’s. I believe he completed around 20 or so operational flights including a couple to Peenemunde. On demob he returned to the police force then was seconded to the Control Commission in Germany before being medically released due to a heart condition. Fast track to 1957 when I was a keen and green ATC cadet and I managed to persuade my father to join the squadron as a badly needed civilian instructor on the .303 browning gun that was still (just) part of the ATC syllabus. I left the ATC early 1958 to join the RAF as a Boy Entrant by which time father was the civilian Adjutant, later becoming commissioned and ultimately elevated to squadron commander. He was highly regarded throughout Cheshire Wing up to his retirement from the RAF VR (T). Why am I relating all this ? I am simply painting a picture of but one of thousands of relatively simple individuals who “did their bit” in WWII; he was quietly, and mostly silently, proud of his contribution. He would certainly have appreciated the completion of the Bomber Command Memorial, though the award of the Bomber Command Clasp would most likely have been met by a snort and a chuckle and perhaps a muttered something along the lines of “as it’s taken this long one wonders if there is any real value behind it ?” I’m sure many others would have shared similar thoughts.

All that being said, there will be a remaining few no doubt who would appreciate receiving the clasp; there will not be many by now and I was wondering if perhaps it were possible for some sort of ground swell to be cultivated whereby those individuals might receive their award with as much pomp and dignity as can be mustered; enlisting currently serving station commanders to make a presentation at their base is one possible option that comes to mind. I would gladly offer my time to help but I am resident too far away to be of much use and see little prospect of making the journey again. Any ideas from those of you better placed ?

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN,

Looking at the medal order that you listed, it appears to be in the order that campaigns started.

Clearly the first was 3 Sep 1939 followed almost immediately by the Atlantic. Was there a medal for the initial European phase with the BEF? Aircrew Europe would appear to be the next with the campaign in North Africa next.

The Pacific war would be from 7 Dec 1941 with the theatre extending to Burma after that.

Italy would be 1943 and the France and Germany star 1944?

If my logic is correct then the Arctic Star should follow the Africa Star and precede the Pacific Star.

[Pontius Navigator]

All that being said, there will be a remaining few no doubt who would appreciate receiving the clasp; there will not be many by now and I was wondering if perhaps it were possible for some sort of ground swell to be cultivated whereby those individuals might receive their award with as much pomp and dignity as can be mustered;

Good idea.

Considering only the Arctic Star, have a look here:

Victory Day celebrated in Britain (http://www.rusemb.org.uk/press/752) for last year.

On 9 May at 10.45 flowers will be laid at the Soviet War Memorial near the Imperial War Museum in London, followed by the talk “Diplomat at war” at IWM (Diplomat at War | Imperial War Museums (http://www.iwm.org.uk/events/diplomat-at-war)). There will also be an invitation-only reception for the veterans of the Arctic Convoys aboard HMS Belfast and, from 18.30, a free gala concert of Russian and British bands at Hay’s Galleria.

I know my MiL would have been welcomed at the Service. I believe there will be another ceremony this May; I think it coincides with the RAF Service at Runymede which is a shame.

It would be a fitting occasion to present the Arctic Stars or at other similar events.

[Chugalug2]

TTN:-

I repeat my question made above: now these guys have had their extra medals, who next?

I would expect the answer to be no one, but time will tell. I bow to your expertise in the matter of medals, TTN, but from the point of view of this layman I would say that the Bomber Command clasp is the cost of getting it wrong in the first place! Coastal Command aircrew got the Atlantic Star because that reflected the Campaign that they so heroically fought, ie the Battle of the Atlantic. That simple relationship of medal awarded to Campaign fought was denied the Bomber Crews. Why that was looks suspiciously like deliberate denial of the justification of the Bombing Campaign from this distance, but whatever the reason that denial had rankled ever since. So if it offends the purists I can only suggest that the apparatchiks, that turned their backs on the Bomber Boys in 1946 and thereafter, are to blame and who should be the targets of any ire felt. My only quibble would be that the Clasp would have better read the Battle of Germany (the title that Harris gave to the Bombing Campaign flown against Germany) rather than Bomber Command which wrongly implies that service alone in that particular RAF Command results in the award of a clasp. It doesn't!
Hugh Spencer, wonderful to see your post on this thread and to see at last a Bomber Command Memorial and this Bomber Command clasp become a reality. Your contributions to that PPRuNe campaign gave it a vital moral authority. It is for us to thank you, Sir!

[Toddington Ted]

"How many of these men are still alive?"
Getting fewer by the day no doubt.
I am fortunate in that at least I have been able to write off to the Medal Office to obtain the Arctic Star for my Dad, who is still alive but not in good health now. Being an ex-Royal Marine (albeit Bandsman rather than Commando) he is fiercely independent and still likes to do things for himself! I feel honoured that I can at least fill in the form for him. He still has his record of service so that should speed things up a bit.
He served on HMS Howe during 1942-43 and the ship's operations included several Arctic convoys. My father always remembers the stern demeanour of the visiting Soviet personnel when they visited the Howe. HMS Howe was a new ship but absolutely infested with rats, according to Dad. He much preferred his previous ship, the Cruiser HMS Orion. From the military aviation aspect, Orion carried a Fairey Seafox spotter floatplane, the pilot was a Royal Marine Officer he recalls.

[Pontius Navigator]

Ted, well done. We posted an app today for a widow too. I see that some medals have already been minted so they obviously got the orders in well before the official announcement.

Good thinking as they should be able to meet demand immediately rather than a long wait while they got their act together.:D

[Davef68]

My mum has filled in the form as Next of Kin of my late grandfather (who would have been 117 if he was still alive!) for his Arctic Service in the Merchant Navy - it will be nice to see it alongside his WW1 (Army) and other WW2 medals.

We don't know if her brother served on an Arctic convoy - he was an MN apprentice who was lost at sea, age 17, and is on the Tower Hill Memorial. Does anyone know if it's possible to find these things out? (Sorry for the non-Mil Av content)

[Pontius Navigator]

Davef, yes, the route is fairly straight forward.

Start with the date he was lost. If that is in the same period as the Arctic Convoys you have a possible. Next you need to find out on which ships he was articled. If you have sufficient information such as his MN number, dob etc, you can probably get a copy of his record from Halifax, Nova Scotia (I don't have the address by you can use Google to find MN records depositories).

Finally, compare his ships with those that were on the convoys, Google again.

[November4]

Is there any official notification on the order of wearing the Arctic medal yet? I have had a look and can only find ref to this on that "authoritative" source Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_Kingdom)which indicates that this medal is to be worn after the other Stars.

This doesn't fit in with the current Stars as they are worn in campaign order. The qualifying date for the Arctic medal is from 3 Sept 39 so should it not fit in after the 1939-45, Atlantic and Aircrew Europe Stars?

[Pontius Navigator]

I suggest you contact Worcestershire Medals. They will give expert advice. I had my grandfather's medals remounted. He had been quite specific (but wrong) on the order. WM mounted them in the correct sequence.

When you find out please repost here.

[Tankertrashnav]

november 4 and P-N. I had to contact Worcester Medals on another matter this morning so I asked them the question. The answer is that The Arctic Star goes immediately after the Atlantic Star (which is logical). They have already had a couple in for mounting, which is quick.

The situation with the issue of the medals is that the Royal Mint made a small batch for immediate issue to convoy survivors, as opposed to next of kin. The company told me there is now a tender procedure among medal manufacturers for the next batch which will be to meet the claims of next of kin (presumably a larger number). They have tendered, but the result is not yet known. I hope the government doesnt go for the cheapest option, as there are some firms making truly awful replica medals - not, I hasten to add Worcester Medals, whose work I can thoroughly recommend (and no, I dont have any connection)!

[November4]

Thanks TTN and PN

That does make sense on the order of wearing. As you say, hope the cheapest option does not affect the quality.

I see that AwardMedals (http://www.awardmedals.com/arctic-star-p-21595.html?cPath=282_257_112&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Arctic+Star+Newsletter&utm_content=Arctic+Star+Newsletter+CID_b69b3e3c8f92511fe8861 48dce31cbbe&utm_source=arctic%20star%20newsletter&utm_term=Click%20Here%20to%20View%20The%20Arctic%20Star%20at %20AwardMedalscom) are taking orders for replicas.

[Tankertrashnav]

No problem Nov 4. As regards replicas, there will be nothing to stop anyone producing a replica for private purchase, but only the company which wins the contract will be able to manufacture the medals under licence for issue to those entitled. One hopes that these will be at least of the same quality as the original stars, which won't necessarily be the case with replicas.

[November4]

Have had a reply from the MOD Medal office and the official word order is as said by Worcester Medals

Thank you for your email.

The order of wearing the Stars is as follows:

• 1939-45 Star
• Atlantic Star
• Arctic Star
• Air Crew Europe Star
• Africa Star
• Pacific Star
• Burma Star
• Italy Star
• France and Germany Star
• Defence Medal
• War Medal 1939-45

Kind Regards

MOD Medals Office

[November4]

My grandfather has been awarded the Arctic Star.

Shame it is 20 years too late for him to have worn on Sunday, which he would have done with quiet pride.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/487401_10151817163174748_1812990834_n.jpg

[Tankertrashnav]

Nice group there, November 4, and very neatly mounted. I'm pleased to see they have been mounted in the old "swing" style. I know the modern trend is for court mounting, but groups of this vintage always look better done this way, at least in my opinion. I hope somebody will be wearing them on the right-hand side on Sunday.

I'm now waiting to see a group with six stars, as prior to the introduction of the Arctic Star the maximum number was five.

[November4]

Thanks TTN. My grandfather had them swing mounted so I had them re-mounted in the same way.

It is a case of try and stop my mother wearing them on Sunday at her local church.