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susandonem
22nd Feb 2013, 10:30
I'm considering retraining for airline management. I've been looking at some university courses in London, especially at University of West London. Anyone know anything about the course, it has anyone done it? Would it be better to gain work experience for 4 years or do a degree? any comments would be appreciated.... thanks.

davidjohnson6
22nd Feb 2013, 19:17
Let us suppose that in 4 years time, your desired job is unavailable - some sort of economic crisis like autumn 2001. Do you have a plan as to what you would do under such a scenario ?

Perhaps you could provide a little info as to your background to judge the value that a 4 year degree might add..how old r u ? existing education level ? what you do for a living now ? etc

poina
22nd Feb 2013, 20:03
You'd get more respect as a barmaid.

FR-
22nd Feb 2013, 20:49
Get in an airline, and work where its head office it based and work your way up, nothing better than hands on. I personally went to St Andrews to read chemistry, wish I hadn't to be honest and started flying 3 years sooner.

fr-

Aero Mad
22nd Feb 2013, 21:19
If you're really desperate to go down the academic route, an MBA (from somewhere reputable with decent lecturers etc.) would be more productive for exactly the same fees. Most people in aviation don't have airline management degrees - an MBA or indeed any course which teaches you to think analytically is constructive.

leisurelad
22nd Feb 2013, 22:29
Doing a course is probably a waste of time and money. As aeromad says, most people in aviation don't have an airline management degree etc, its all about experience and working your way up and in some cases, who you know or if your face fits !!
I left school at 16 with a handfull of GCSE's, only 4C's and a couple of D's, started on a yts scheme in a travel agents, moved on to airline res, moved on to the airport as check in, went flying for a few years as crew, back on the ground as an airline rep, promoted to duty manager then went into operations and crewing. Moved to the other side of the country and have ended up as a manager for a travel company and been there ever since.
A course can never prepare you for how to deal with 18hr shifts 3 days on the trot and 320, 41hr delayed angry customers !!! and come out smiling the other end.

PAXboy
23rd Feb 2013, 02:18
I have never worked for an airline but was in commerce for 27 years in telecommunications and IT in retail, Finance and so on. I, too, did not go to Uni but worked my way up from telephone operator (learning at the coal face!) to various levels of manager and then consultant, with international work. I now work as self employed in another field but, again, I have worked my way up.

So I am old fashioned in thinking that the 'coal face' is still the way to go. If you have done the job, it can help you to manage the people who are doing the job now. For example, when I was head hunted into the City in 1986 by an American merchant bank, in my first weeks, to show the telephone staff that their new boss did know what he was doing, I worked two half days with them, answering calls and listening to them. I was responsible for Voice Comms in Europe, Middle East & Africa, but it helped to show that I knew the basics. I would agree that an MBA sounds sensible.

Another thing that Uni/College can't teach you is office politics! It's best to start seeing how the back stabbing works early on. Then you won't be so suprised when you have to start pulling turbine blades out of your back!! :E

Welcome to PPRune and congratulations for being brave enough to stick your nose in here but hang around because these many forums have much good reading in amongst the less good reading. :}

GROUNDHOG
23rd Feb 2013, 07:56
You can learn the theory but you will never learn the practical until you have been there and done it.

To get to the top of management you need foresight, hard work, a super team to work with. You must be prepared to take the odd risk and to have bucket loads of luck. Get used to the slaps in the face too, redundancy can come often in aviation.

Goods luck, I had two ambitions in aviation, to see my name as head of an airline in JP Fleets and to retire at 50, I achieved both and will never need to work again. All I did though was to steer my ship it was the hard work of the brilliant people around me that made it happen and you cannot get that from a book.

Best wishes in your career but as has been said, start at the coal face and climb it is quick as you can.

Tableview
23rd Feb 2013, 08:10
If you are going to do a course or a degree, I'd suggest accountancy, commercial law, or an MBA (wary of the latter though, many of them are BS). You are then set up for a career in any business.

Bear in mind that the airline industry, for many reasons, is like no other, and as others have said, not something you can learn other than by practical experience.

When I've applied for jobs or contracts in the airline world, I have NEVER been asked for proof of any relevant formal qualifications or degrees, which given that I have none, is probably just as well. Ironically though, a couple of years ago I was approached by a business school for a part-time lecturing position in aviation management and practice and had to fill in a form giving details of academic qualifications etc. Left most of it blank, they sent it back for completion, I said I couldn't complete it because I had nothing to put in there. They had to get special exemption to employ me, even though it was they who had approached me and I didn't really even want the work.

G-JNHP
23rd Feb 2013, 08:53
I am always reminded of Emirates' ads for mid- and senior-level management and guess what the first thing is that they mention candidates must have? A degree. This is the same for most good jobs, but also for trainee management programmes (e.g. with BA or Thomson) or many entry-level positions (e.g. Virgin's various analyst positions). Without a degree - normally at least a 2.1 - you wouldn't even get a look-in. There is probably a gap between what is needed/desired for commercial-type roles and operations.

While I highly recommend an undergraduate - and nowadays also a postgraduate course due to greater competition at the undergraduate level - what subject you do matters less than what you achieve and what you do around your degree(s). Regarding the latter, I worked part-time in a good role for a well-known international firm (for the area) and wrote for magazines, attended industry events (you can often negotiate free entry), got to know people, etc. Think about it from this perspective: a degree is a means of helping to getting an interview. The rest is up to you.

My recommendation is to choose the subject(s) that you most enjoy and will be naturally motivated for - there's no point going and not doing well - but also the best university possible reputation-wise, given whatever grades you already have, for the subject(s).

Tableview
23rd Feb 2013, 09:04
In many cases, the value of a degree to the employer is only that it proves that the candidate has the level of intelligence and application to achieve a qualification. If creates a 'filter' to ensure a higher quality of candidate.

The degree subject itself may be quite irrelevant.

PAXboy
23rd Feb 2013, 11:48
I agree that, nowadays, a degree is used to filter off applicants - many of who could be brilliant and better than the degree holders! :hmm:

But companies think that the paper proves something and, of course to some level, it does. But what risk averse corporates forget is that people like Richard Branson (irrespective of what you think of him - just look at his success) was a school drop out.

Many who reach the top are not conventional and do not think like everyone else - Bill Gates droped out of Uni and so on.

But that piece of paper does count these days. I don't think it should but then I'm an old f@rt. :p

HZ123
3rd Mar 2013, 15:47
Public school drop out!