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ORAC
22nd Feb 2013, 10:04
Torygraph: Al-Qaeda's 22 tips for dodging drone attacks: the list in full (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/9886673/Al-Qaedas-22-tips-for-dodging-drone-attacks-the-list-in-full.html)

A document containing al-Qaeda's 22 tips for dodging drone attacks has been found in a building abandoned by Islamists in Mali. Here, we list all 22 tips.

1. It is possible to know the intention and the mission of the drone by using the Russianmade “sky grabber” device to infiltrate the drone’s waves and the frequencies. The device is available in the market for $2,595 and the one who operates it should be a computer know-how.

2. Using devices that broadcast frequencies or pack of frequencies to disconnect the contacts and confuse the frequencies used to control the drone. The Mujahideen have had successful experiments using the Russian-made “Racal.”

3. Spreading the reflective pieces of glass on a car or on the roof of the building.

4. Placing a group of skilled snipers to hunt the drone, especially the reconnaissance ones because they fly low, about six kilometres or less.

5. Jamming of and confusing of electronic communication using the ordinary water-lifting dynamo fitted with a 30-metre copper pole.

6. Jamming of and confusing of electronic communication using old equipment and keeping them 24-hour running because of their strong frequencies and it is possible using simple ideas of deception of equipment to attract the electronic waves devices similar to that used by the Yugoslav army when they used the microwave (oven) in attracting and confusing the Nato missiles fitted with electromagnetic searching devices.

7. Using general confusion methods and not to use permanent headquarters.

8. Discovering the presence of a drone through well-placed reconnaissance networks and to warn all the formations to halt any movement in the area.

9. To hide from being directly or indirectly spotted, especially at night.

10. To hide under thick trees because they are the best cover against the planes.

11. To stay in places unlit by the sun such as the shadows of the buildings or the trees.

12. Maintain complete silence of all wireless contacts.

13. Disembark of vehicles and keep away from them especially when being chased or during combat.

14. To deceive the drone by entering places of multiple entrances and exits.

15. Using underground shelters because the missiles fired by these planes are usually of the fragmented anti-personnel and not anti-buildings type.

16. To avoid gathering in open areas and in urgent cases, use building of multiple doors or exits.

17. Forming anti-spies groups to look for spies and agents.

18. Formation of fake gatherings such as using dolls and statutes to be placed outside false ditches to mislead the enemy.

19. When discovering that a drone is after a car, leave the car immediately and everyone should go in different direction because the planes are unable to get after everyone.

20. Using natural barricades like forests and caves when there is an urgent need for training or gathering.

21. In frequently targeted areas, use smoke as cover by burning tires.

22. As for the leaders or those sought after, they should not use communications equipment because the enemy usually keeps a voice tag through which they can identify the speaking person and then locate him.

Courtney Mil
22nd Feb 2013, 10:28
Man! They've got us out-foxed. I can see our "drone" pilots won't be getting many medals this Christmas.

Davef68
22nd Feb 2013, 10:32
"6. ....... by the Yugoslav army when they used the microwave (oven) in attracting and confusing the Nato missiles fitted with electromagnetic searching devices."

The spotter tea bar at Waddington better watch out if they ever start operating out of there!! :)

500N
22nd Feb 2013, 10:38
4 sounds interesting.

Martin the Martian
22nd Feb 2013, 10:45
4. Placing a group of skilled snipers to hunt the drone, especially the reconnaissance ones because they fly low, about six kilometres or less.

-Good luck with trying to reach that there Global Hawk with your sniper rifles.

8. Discovering the presence of a drone through well-placed reconnaissance networks and to warn all the formations to halt any movement in the area.

-Haven't come across many al-Qaeda plane spotters.

9. To hide from being directly or indirectly spotted, especially at night.

-Darn! They're onto us. Ah well, might as well pack up and go home.

19. When discovering that a drone is after a car, leave the car immediately and everyone should go in different direction because the planes are unable to get after everyone.

-Surely the only time you know that a drone is after the car you're travelling in is when the Hellfire insists on joining you?

I don't mean to be facetious, and while I guess it constitutes what on the face of it looks like common sense thinking about how to evade and fool drones, it makes me personally think that the hopeful drone dodgers haven't got a clue.

Please tell me if I have it wrong.

JT Eagle
22nd Feb 2013, 10:47
Would that be the MicroWAVE?

I know, tinfoil hat, coat etc

JT

VinRouge
22nd Feb 2013, 10:47
Not really a good idea what we think is a stupid idea or not on here is it really guys?

SASless
22nd Feb 2013, 11:14
I think the Terr's are onto us and should continue doing what they are.....as it does seem to be working for them. They sure don't seem to be watching National Geo or the Military Channel on TV.

If you think those 21-22 Tips are the best they can do....you badly under-estimate the Enemy. They are far smarter than that list indicates.

mike-wsm
22nd Feb 2013, 11:23
23. Move to somewhere that begins with 'w', like Washington, Westminster...

Whenurhappy
22nd Feb 2013, 11:26
24. Wear day-glo vests and the UAV sensor operator will think you are the section H&S advisor.

25. Dress as a Scandanavian woman (and adopt a strident voice) and the UAV sensor operator will think you are the Unit Gender Focal Point

SASless
22nd Feb 2013, 11:35
26. Become a "Bundler" of large amounts of contributions to BH Obama's Campaign Fund.....afix Obama/Biden Bumper stickers to your car.

Heathrow Harry
22nd Feb 2013, 13:04
have a Boeing or LHM parking pass on your car - the drone operator will assume you are trying to sell the Govt some US made hardware

walter kennedy
22nd Feb 2013, 13:59
As was done against V1s, if you can catch and turn one or two spotters (that finger which car the targets are in) you'd just have to cause a few strikes against prominent "friendlies" to curb the use of drones significantly.
Then give the bastards "necklaces" to deter other collaborators (old "tin Eye" would have been proud of me!).
Seriously, though, not that I sympathise with terrorists but their greatest weakness appears to be that their organisations are infiltrated with pro-west spies (or those targeted are just people the "west" does not want to rise to prominence, strong community leaders/organisers, budding Hariris, etc).
The best way of stopping drone strikes may be to do some PR and get the western populace to stop their use - there are enough muslims in the west surely to get their version of things out on the street without leaving the words of extremists (or pseudo extremists) unchallenged.

5aday
22nd Feb 2013, 14:09
What the hell are you ranting on about?

Courtney Mil
22nd Feb 2013, 14:27
Walt, you're not making sense, Mate. Have another tinny.

XV277
22nd Feb 2013, 14:30
As was done against V1s, if you can catch and turn one or two.

For one tiny second there, I thought you were about to say 'turn them back around the way they came' (It was proposed for Spitfires at one point....)

high spirits
22nd Feb 2013, 15:31
......don't grow a beard that you could lose a badger in, wave your arms whilst shouting 'dirka dirka' and commit terrorist atrocities. That ought to go some way to preserving your butt.

CoffmanStarter
22nd Feb 2013, 15:48
Simple solution ... Put well trained "wetware" up front in a cockpit riding a fast/capable delivery system ... very difficult to jam that little bundle :ok:

Ivan Rogov
22nd Feb 2013, 16:19
27. Get lots of lights and spell out 'ENGINE FAIL' in 30 foot high letters. Flash them on and off and keep moving them to remain at the top of the drone operators screen :ok:

Fox3WheresMyBanana
22nd Feb 2013, 16:48
Ivan :D:D:D

VinRouge
22nd Feb 2013, 16:54
Didn't do this lot much good anyhow....

Warning, a bit graphic....

http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=f213b73d647e

Trim Stab
22nd Feb 2013, 16:57
24. Don't get married and don't hold a wedding party..

CoffmanStarter
22nd Feb 2013, 17:13
VR ... Very chilling but nevertheless effective ... but is this an Apache engagement ?

Lonewolf_50
22nd Feb 2013, 17:28
4. Placing a group of skilled snipers to hunt the drone, especially the
reconnaissance ones because they fly low, about six kilometres or less.

-Good luck with trying to reach that there Global Hawk with your
sniper rifles.

I suppose one hasn't heard about the latest sniper rifles ... :E

Captain Radar....
22nd Feb 2013, 18:17
28. When being hunted from the air at night get dressed up as panto horses and stand very very still.....................

Vortex what...ouch!
22nd Feb 2013, 18:17
especially the reconnaissance ones

So all of them then :E

walter kennedy
25th Feb 2013, 14:28
In that video we see a man who put his hands on his head but was still blown away; we see men injured beyond being able to continue combat being blown away.
There is obviously something wrong with this type of warfare - that is, if we think that it is we who hold the moral high ground.

Lonewolf_50
25th Feb 2013, 15:32
In that video we see a man who put his hands on his head but was still blown away;
And you have 20/20 hindsight. The pilot on scene doesnt.
we see men injured beyond being able to continue combat
being blown away.
You have no way to substantiate that. Furthermore, medal citations the world over are filled with the exploits of soldiers who are shot up and still keep fighting.

There is obviously something wrong with this type of warfare -

No, there isn't. In war, you shoot to kill. War is killing for a political purpose. Get that through your head. Air power is a means of applying fires. Were there infantry on scene for that engagement, there may have been a surrender accepted, or not.

There is something wrong with your attitude, and your alleged understanding of warfare.

Just This Once...
25th Feb 2013, 17:17
Lonewolf, the UK legal interpretation for The Rules of Engagement and the Law of Armed Combat do not permit combatants to shoot at people who are surrendering or who no longer pose a threat because of their injuries.

We do as we are told or suffer the legal consequences of our actions, just as US Forces do.

I appreciate that the UK and US interpretations are different, but I am comfortable with the UK rulings and we have a fair understanding of warfare.

Lonewolf_50
25th Feb 2013, 17:19
Just this once, you are making the assertion of omniscience of the aircrew involved. I find that position hard to credit. Hindsight isn't available on the battlefield.

Beyond that, I am keenly aware of the LOAC and RoE, thanks all the same, national and coalition.

Just This Once...
25th Feb 2013, 17:21
I am not passing judgement on this crew or any other and I am not passing judgement on the different legal opinions between the UK and US.

Lonewolf_50
25th Feb 2013, 17:38
Thank you, sir, and I apologize for being snarky. Wasn't needed.

FWIW, Financial times has an interesting piece on this very topic.

The cyber age demands new rules of war - FT.com (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/170b2a62-7c5a-11e2-99f0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2LwBi5d2c)

I've been making a similar point since about the mid 1990's, to mostly deaf ears.

Courtney Mil
25th Feb 2013, 17:42
Just a small question. How would anyone actually surrender to a "drone"? Is it likely to stop and take them prisoner or might the enemy combatants just hold up their hands and wait until it went home before resuming their mission? Perhaps that's a good one to add to this thread:

If threatened by an air attack by a drone, hold your hand up in the air until it goes away. That's probably the first one that might actually work.

Lonewolf_50
25th Feb 2013, 17:55
There is anecdotal evidence, Courtney, of a number of Iraqis in 1991 who tried to surrender to a US drone on one of the Islands in the Northern PG.

Another group actually surrendered to helicopter crew (Army) based on the USS Jarrett. The pilot in command had to land and accept surrender. I hope to someday find an account of his mission that day on the net. The Iraqis on the island were running short of food and water, among their other troubles.

Quaruh or Karuh Island, I can't recall how to spell it.

500N
25th Feb 2013, 18:56
Lonewolf

I will send you a PM with the page of the book that
covers the surrender to the helicopter pilots.

I had seen it before and looked it up.


I now see where you get your name "Lonewolf 50" from :O

:ok:

Lonewolf_50
25th Feb 2013, 19:26
Ah yes, 500N, thank you! A good friend of mine was the aircraft commander on the Lonewolf that day, and I must confess to my memory failing: USS Curts, not USS Jarrett.. :O OK, it's only been 23 years, but I should remember better. Same aircraft commander was the first man I know of to do mine sweeping over land with an SH-60B Seahawk. :E Different story for a different time.

Another friend of mine was on Jarrett, and he had "fun" things happen to him as well.

dead_pan
25th Feb 2013, 19:56
If you think those 21-22 Tips are the best they can do....you badly under-estimate the Enemy. They are far smarter than that list indicates

Indeed - this is very much the 101 list.

I bet they're all getting quite handy with all manner of cheapo Chinese electronics.

TEEEJ
25th Feb 2013, 20:41
qE42jDFBlWE&feature=related

Desert Shield/Storm Anecdote The surrender of Iraqi troops to an unmanned aerial vehicle did actually happen. All of the UAV units at various times had individuals or groups attempt to signal the Pioneer, possibly to indicate willingness to surrender. However, the most famous incident occurred when USS Missouri (BB 63), using her Pioneer to spot 16 inch gunfire, devastated the defenses of Faylaka Island off the coast near Kuwait City.

Shortly thereafter, while still over the horizon and invisible to the defenders, the USS Wisconsin (BB 64) sent her Pioneer over the island at low altitude. When the UAV came over the island, the defenders heard the obnoxious sound of the two-cycle engine since the air vehicle was intentionally flown low to let the Iraqis know that they were being targeted. Recognizing that with the "vulture" overhead, there would soon be more of those 2,000-pound naval gunfire rounds landing on their positions with the same accuracy, the Iraqis made the right choice and, using handkerchiefs, undershirts, and bedsheets, they signaled their desire to surrender.

The US Navy -- Fact File: RQ-2A Pioneer Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) (http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=1100&tid=2100&ct=1)