WARNING! Contains Sharkey Porn...

[The B Word]

And without an iPod in sight...:E

801 Top Gun - YouTube

[Corporal Clott]

Oh dear, comparing a Whistling Sh!tcan to a Tomcat, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear :=

[dat581]

An F-14A catapult launch was one of the most spectacular sights in aviation. Sea Harrier not so much.:hmm: Still did the job when needed though...

[orca]

What a shame...

Some nice footage (almost) completely spoilt by the enduring premise that to be a naval aviator you must have something to do with the USN Fighter Weapons School. Change the title and music and you have a reasonable document...albeit of a tired jet with a great combat record coming out for one last bow. (Why was there no bow? That would have been good.;))

I wonder, in the gathering dusk of its career, exactly what the video producer thought the FA2 and the chaps who maintained and flew it had to prove? Or how FAA FW was somehow preserved as a result of Marstrike 05! (History would appear to show otherwise!)

[500N]

Interesting.


Could someone tell me what the deck crew person is doing
at about 3.15. Looks like some silver metal in his hand
as he does something near the intake.

[Navaleye]

Actually the RN QFI course did have a lot to do with Top Gun. Well done to MoorKey for the recording. Looking forward to 800NAS Flying of HMS Queen Elizabeth at the end of the decade.

[rigpiggy]

Just a guess, spraying some of the salt off the fan?

[WhiteOvies]

Of course Moorkey was an 800NAS maintainer before he ever got to 801! :ok:

Not exactly Topgun, but the only time the FA2 went to Nellis for Red Flag they played Red Air with the USAF Aggressor Vipers. Even bagged some unwary F-15s!

Orca, I would say the producer was thinking of doing something for the other lads on the Squadron, never expecting it to end up on Youtube. Nothing to prove, just something to remember.

[Justanopinion]

Actually the RN QFI course did have a lot to do with Top Gun.

?????????????????????????

Great det that was too. We also flew two days of sorties with the GR7 in and out of Afghanistan, in support of 1 Sqn, from the boat at the end of the exercise.

[Mk 1]

It's a can of "Start Ya Bastard"...:E

[dervish]

It is a shame the way aircraft such as SHAR are routinely denigrated, just because they belong to another generation. At the time (and that is what counts) it was a superb aircraft and did what it said on the tin, in spades. It has had its day, but what a day it was.

[BEagle]

Nicely made movie, well-edited to the music.

How long will it be before anyone can ever make a similar movie, starring the UK's F-35B? Or F/A-18C/D? Or Rafale?

A great shame that the RN killed off the excellent Sea Harrier F/A 2. AMRAAM + Link16 gave it a potent capability light years ahead of Sharkey's FRS 1.

[lj101]

Well said Beags, she was an easy aircraft to work too with as generally she was very serviceable (and if broke, easy to fix).... as was the GR5/7/9. Despite being an old bird, she was the only British fast jet we worked with (until Typhoon) who could/did tank a few thousand feet above the rest making life a lot quicker and less tanker dependant for all.

No idea why so many are so spiteful about the Sea Harrier/Harrier force.

[BEagle]

Indeed, lj101, it was good to back up at a reasonable altitude when tanking the Sea Harrier. But as for trails with the GR3, the 'Sondrestrom out' single hose plan was....interesting!

Despite being an old bird....

Not really all that old - and often a more mature bird is more fun anyway....:E As many VC10 air engineers will be able to confirm - in all senses of the word!

I first encountered the Sea Harrier in March 1981 after finishing my TWU course at Chivenor. 800 NAS wanted some opposition during a work-up phase, so I went along on a couple of DACT trips with the acknowledged doggers aces of the base - they found it a very slippery little beast to fight against.

[tucumseh]

I think it always worth repeating that, due to the way the Defence budget was constructed in the mid-late 70s, the RN (FAA in this case) understandably committed to a series of major procurements simultaneously.



Just as an example, at the outbreak of hostilities in 1982, Lynx, Sea King and SHAR radars were still in development. Sea Spray, Sea Searcher and Blue Fox, respectively. Orders were issued to shut down development and launch production, regardless of design maturity. Sea Spray was the most mature, and production was “simply” ramped up. But Sea Searcher and Blue Fox still had about a year to run on main development.



In the case of SHAR/Blue Fox, 6 of the 8 B Models (which belonged to MoD(PE), not the FAA) were delivered and fitted. These 6 were roughly compatible/interchangeable, but definitely not production standard. The remaining 2 were too different and would have been dangerous to use. Training in their use was minimal. Some design features hadn’t been included yet were in the training manual, and vice versa. What Sharkey and his mates did with this immature design was nothing short of incredible. I’m not sure this minor, but quite important detail is well publicised, but it explains much. The most incredible fact was these B Models stayed in service for over 8 years, before being returned to the factory for the Mid Life Upgrade. This is a great testament to the quality of design and reliability.



In all cases, a Continuing Design Services (CDS) contract was required, to finish main development, incorporate and modify. Sea Spray was minor, although important to reliability, but the RN was denied funding and the Dutch reaped the benefit. The final year of Sea Searcher development was spread over the next 10 years as a “savings” measure, and to this day there are switches on the Controllers with no wiring behind them (a long time source of frustration and numerous MF760s). Most of the CDS was done on the quiet, behind the beancounters’ backs. Blue Fox was the one that was properly funded, progressed and completed to a reasonable timescale; partially due to the Blue Vixen development work that had commenced. This resulted in a major upgrade in 1984 (the “Jamming Package”), then the Mid Life Upgrade (I/A). It was widely regarded as best in class, and despite a 35 year old design would probably still be a viable piece of kit for many potential users. When it was eventually replaced by Blue Vixen, it still exceeded the best spec the RAF could dream up for the Bucc replacement!



Kind of puts the old “Blue Circle” balls in context!

[5aday]

Looks like the ground crew chap might have been spraying WD40 down the intake as it was running down. The Nimrod's and it's Speys were treated to the wash and then the engines were similarly treated with a large spray unit. Quite a pungent smell as you came down the steps.

[500N]

Thanks to those who answered my question.

[CoffmanStarter]

TBW ...

Nice post and vid :D

Just to help ... if you delete in edit mode the YOUTUBE and /YOUTUBE in square brackets at the beginning and end of your YouTube URL you will get just the one embedded vid screen :ok:

[FODPlod]

Very enjoyable. Thank you for sharing.

[lightbluefootprint]

Yep, very nice vid and well edited :ok:
Which station was shown at the end? looked a bit like Cottesmore to me.

[orca]

It's Yeovilton.

He's doing circuits to 27L. The guy in the hover on the left is over Charlie pad and the final approach is made to the MEXE which borders 22L on the eastern side, just north of the intersection with the main.

The MEXE was quite small compared to those at Cottesmore so probably worth avoiding without a wind that allowed you to taxy straight off onto 22/04.

(MEXE probably stands for something but equally might not - it's metal planking.)

[DaveW]

(MEXE probably stands for something but equally might not - it's metal planking.)

I know this one.

MEXE was the Military Engineering eXperimental Establishment at Christchurch, which was run down in the '70s. They also developed the Mexeflotes (still, I think) used by the assault ship fleet.

[Courtney Mil]

MEXE were the people in Hants or Dorset that designed and made the planking to place the old PSP (with the holes in it). It was the Military Engineering Experimental Establishment. Even better than MEXE planking was AM2 matting.

Beat me to it, Dave.:ok:

[thrusts a must]

Orca,

The mexe looked quite big to me. In the early days a normal mexe was 75' and a small one 50'. The really skilled guys - JF,Profit, Day,Pook, Dodworth etc could do a 'corner of the pad' landing (without markers) killing the fwd/side drift at about 10'. I used it once in anger and the heart-rate was off the clock.

Any mexe landing requires awesome skill so hats off to the driver but in my previous life he got a 9 for being a bit back and right.

'Lifts a gift'

[Courtney Mil]

The really skilled guys - JF,Profit, Day,Pook, Dodworth

You missed out Ward, Mate.

[The B Word]

Coffman starter

Top tip buddy! Video is now a singleton...

The B Word :ok:

[The B Word]

Back to the video. Given the aircraft's number by the forward nozzle, surely a Bond theme tune would be more appropriate? :ok:

[stickmonkeytamer]

Low and fast over the North Sea before the last landing onboard Lusty...

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo116/sband/001lowfine1_filtered2.jpg

and the last ever launch...

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo116/sband/Illustrious/zh796sharlaunch280206.jpg

SMT

[orca]

Thrust's a must,

The pads probably grew over time - but the one at Yeovs was definitely smaller than those that were at Cott/Witt by the time I got there. I had no dramas landing in any direction at Cott/Witt but would only go to the Yeovilton MEXE if I knew I'd be facing the concrete, not the grass. Probably yet another of my weaknesses and inabilities that I managed to cover up over the years!

As regards the technique Pook talked about in his book it sounds eminently sensible to me - I took it to mean maintaining an angle from head to a single fixed point as opposed to maintaining your horizontal position by virtue of being at the confluence of two straight lines - maintained by aligning two markers on each. (He probably explained it far better in 1/10th of the verbage!)

[Pali]

Some stunning photos stickmonkeytamer
:ok:

[dervish]

tuc

When it was eventually replaced by Blue Vixen, it still exceeded the best spec the RAF could dream up for the Bucc replacement!


Can you expand?

Nice to see positive comments about SHAR. UK(Ltd) at its best. Great photos.

[500N]

"Some stunning photos stickmonkeytamer"

+ 1


That low and fast shot is awesome.

[Courtney Mil]

That top photo is a real stunner! :ok:

[Pontius]

Orca,

What's with the 27L and 22L? Did Yeovilton get parallel runways after I left?

There used to be a 'proper' mexe pad adjacent to the northern taxyway enroute to 09 (L, C & R).

[tucumseh]

dervish

Briefly, Blue Fox was still a top class radar when it was disposed of during the conversion from SHAR FRS1 to FA2. It was disposed of because parts of the design were, and probably remain, top secret. Many asked to buy it; all were politely turned away. India had a basic variant, but weren’t allowed the full spec.



At the last disposal meeting (a huge task for TS kit) an RAF OR Branch pitched up and tabled a draft spec to fit a radar into a Tornado variant, with a view to undertaking a key Buccaneer role. The chief designer had a look and replied “The RN is scrapping 50+ Blue Fox radars that will more than meet this spec”.



OR was ecstatic but then the penny dropped. “If the RN are scrapping something that exceeds our wildest dreams, WTF are they getting as a replacement?” Blue Vixen. Plan A was quietly ditched and we heard no more.



More a commentary on the complete disconnect between OR Branches, their reluctance to engage civilian specialists and their flat refusal to conduct proper Requirement Scrutiny (which would have revealed all this in 2 minutes flat). The RN was slightly better at this, the Army infinitely worse. Still is. (Sorry!)

[orca]

Pontius,

I am truly sorry and repent of all my sins, of which runway naming convention slip ups are a little 'second tier' but in their own way significant nonetheless.

Believe it or not I had to edit it my post because the mists of time, ale and a bit too much JD had turned 22 into a right hand circuit.

Please pass on my apologies to all who genuinely thought Yeovilton had mysteriously grown a few bits of concrete.

Great photo, believe it was AR at the controls...although the other pilot that day was IT. That 'last embarkation' was a real shame to me as it was a hastily planned and executed add-on to the last one in squadron strength a little earlier. I have the 'Last CVS SHAR launch' crossed out of my logbook as a direct result. Boo hoo.

[tucumseh]

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc291/exploringtheblue/shar001.jpg

[Lower Hangar]

Nice to see some of the complimentary remarks about the final FRS1 ie the Phase 1 Avionics update which included the I/A Blue Fox, 32K Weapon Computer, Digital ADC, MADGE (Head Up and Head Down), A NAVHARS that worked (it had the FIN 1064 'Jag' CPU) .The integration of I/A Blue Fox with the bigger WAC gave the FRS1 lots of goodies e.g DGS -a predictor Gun Sight which was used to good effect against the towed SAMDU (towed by A&AEE aircraft) for the gun trials (XZ 440 pilot Steve Thomas).

I was programme manager at BAe Dunsfold (1984-1987) for this thoroughly enjoyable Avionics Integration programme before I was 'hoiked' off to BAe Kingston in Dec 1987 to programme manage the build of the first FA2 -ZA 195and subsequently the 2nd FA2 XZ439.

[Black 'n Yellar]

Seeing as we seem to be in a 'SHAR loving' period at the moment, here is a video of some more 'Sharkey Porn' from 801 NAS flying Sea Harriers from HMS Invincible - none of which are sadly with us any more!

801 Naval Air Sqn HMS Invincible - YouTube

[Courtney Mil]

we seem to be in a 'SHAR loving' period at the moment

Are we really? Perhaps the decission to scrap Harrier was bonkers.

[Dominator2]

Remind me Courtney,

How many bombs could it get to the beach? What was it's ability to get high and FAST to employ it's Air to Air weapons? We all know the answers so why are we going round the buoy again! One can only hope that the "New Harrier" will be slightly more effective and not just another Air Show aircraft.

[AdLib]

Saw plenty of low ones.
Never saw a fast one...:E

But that's a lovely picture which is now my desktop background. Thanks SMT.

D2 -> Waah!

[Courtney Mil]

To be honest, Dominator, my real concern is that it won't be that much better. The SHAR was great at what it did and that's an old (and bonkerdly defunct now) platform. It was amazing value for money too. Apart from some expensive stealth technology (which may not pass the test of time) the performance isn't better enough to justify the price tag or the amount of amazing technology that's gone into it. In a way, it looks too much like an advanced SHAR.

I'm not anti-either, but I worry about the next one. But's all for another thread.

[Pure Pursuit]

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/40935850?autoplay=1" width="398" height="224" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

[Engines]

Dominator,

To answer your questions -

1. How many bombs to the beach - enough when it mattered, and plenty for a small fighter. With an excellent radar and weapons systems (thanks to lower Hangar and his crew) it could also drop them with very good ballistic accuracy. Had it had the 540lb bomb sooner, it would have carried even more.

2. Ability to get high and fast to deploy its weapons - it could climb faster than most anything else and was fast enough (paired with SKW) to do the job. In any event, when it was retired, it was still able to give most any other fighter in the West a good go. Its JTIDS integration package (ditched when the jet was canned) would have given it another massive boost in combat effectiveness. Shame it didn't get the chance to use it.

Anyway, those are the answers I have. You've clearly got others. Hey, let's differ.

But calling the SHAR an 'Air Show aircraft' - beg to differ. It actually fought a shooting war against enemy aircraft in the air. And won.

Best wishes as ever to all those doing the job for real,

Engines

[AR1]

I feel the need, the need for s......Something a bit faster.

[Pure Pursuit]

Well, that went well.

Allow me to post the link...

Kadena F-15 video - The DEW Line (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2012/04/kadena-f-15-video.html)

Two videos on the page. The lower one being the better. I've worked with this lot, good operators.

[X767]

Yes - the 1154 !

[orca]

Dominator,

Of course the FA2 couldn't go high and fast, but neither could the F3 really. Fast (very fast) I will grant you. But when the AIM-120 was asked the simple question 'High or fast? And it's British jets we're talking about so neither of them can do both!' It would always/usually/mainly answer 'Err - high please.'

I got to fire one and even chased an F3 firing one as well. (I kept up...but can't remember how!)

The Sea Jet was a great little platform with significant short comings. It had its day and a fine day it was. But even the most ardent fan would have to admit it would have been looking a little dated by now!

[dat581]

Would say an F-15 pilot try to stay out of the FA2's firing solution and wait until it runs out of fuel and then just fire an AIM-120 up the spout when it turns for home?

[Courtney Mil]

Dat, he might. Or he could significantly increase the range of his slammer by using his superior energy.

Orca, high AND fast is good for 120 (as above). F3 certainly could do both.

[XZ439]

OK, we all know the jet had its limitations but the update was a result of a MLU, that was de-scoped, to integrate a look down / shoot down capability after 82. Those reqt's again! Happy Days though....the SHAR always surprised. And to sign-off, for all the CV supporters, I have to recall some of JF's wise words:

'Better to stop, then land........ Happiness is V/STOL!'

[Pure Pursuit]

Courtney,

The F3 may have been able to get high and fast however, it took forever to get there, couldn't turn for toffee and would have been slammed in the climb most times. The turning radius and energy bleed seemed to prevent the crews from doing anything other than climb (slowly) in the commit.

I thought they gave in good account of themselves when taking the above into account but, the reality is that most other jets would get higher and faster before the F3 and shoot first.

Thankfully, Typhoon seems to have resolved that issue, :ok:

[Milo Minderbinder]

so......would fitting the Blue Vixen to the F3 have been an improvement?

[Courtney Mil]

Pure Pursuit, it wasn't a rocket ship off the blocks, but we know that once we got it going it did better than most folks realised. I was slightly sceptical (especially coming from the F-15 to the F3) before I did my first high flyer, but from commit to engage (or ID) there was time to do it - especially being a long-range interceptor. Flying a high/super sonic stern VID was a challenge, but it could be done.

[Courtney Mil]

Milo,

It certainly would have been an improvement over Blue Circle, but it wouldn't have helped much over the later system.

[Pure Pursuit]

Courtney Mil,

Like I said, I always thought that the crews have a bloody account of themselves despite the airframe. The fact that getting to height took a significant amount of effort took away many of the positives. I always suspected that, unless the Eagle guys missed a trick, the F3 would get splashed most of the time. That said, we often saw some seriously cunning and devious flying that made life difficult for the other side but, the results normally ended up the same. Not a slur on the crews at all, just the tiny wings!

[Dan Winterland]

''Oh dear, comparing a Whistling Sh!tcan to a Tomcat, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear ''

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/dbchippy/A2A077_zps99fe2631.jpg

This pic was taken over Kuwait in about 2000, just as the USAAF announced that there was no need for wet film recce anymore and binned all their cameras, because the F15E's radar was so good. Except that they found the image was attenuated too much by dust haze and the images were pants. So, some Vinten pods were borrowed from the Brits and put on the F14s who went and took traditional piccies. The FA2s, equipped with Link16 and AIM120s were their "shooters".

Role reversal if there ever was!

[Pontius]

Oh dear, comparing a Whistling Sh!tcan to a Tomcat, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

Clearly written by somebody without a clue what they're talking about.

I've 'fought' Tomcats numerous times, including the TACTS ranges where bull**** was negated by video evidence :)

I have NEVER had an F14 get a 'kill' on me but the opposite is very true. I will grant you they look very pretty and their size made for impressive deck launches but that's where their 'awesomeness' ended. The Phoenix shot was easy to defeat and that was the end of their tricks. IF they ever tried turning with you you could chew them up in less than 2 circles and it was great to see what their intentions were with the wing sweep. Of course, I was never going to catch them when they blew through the fight, having failed to get a Phoenix shot off, but with all that lovely speed the leading edges were nectar for an IR-hungry missile.

As the Bombcat they were absolutely f*%#ing lousy and a complete waste of range slots.

So, for comparing a SHAR to a Tomcat, the looks go to the F14 but I know what I'd rather be in when it comes to fighting (and air shows). As for 'whistling ****cans', that term is a used to describe helicopters, not fixed wing.

[orca]

Courtney,

In my own spectatorial experience the F3 could get high and fast for one presentation and that was it. I never saw them maintain 30k and above for any length of time. Maybe it was a trick they were keeping up their sleeve...and as always I realise it's easy to win the debrief from one's own perspective.

I played 'drone' for a F3 dress rehearsal once (AIM-120 shot) and I remember that the shot was on the number going up through 30k ish very fast - but they then had to come back down - very fast. They also always used to fight without tanks - which I am sure was representative as they would have thrown them off in combat - but their endurance always seemed very short in that fit.

By happenstance a F3 chased my Fox 3 and asked politely if we could descend to hold when there was a snag with the range. I couldn't afford to drop down due fuel (Sea jet cost only 65 lbs/min above 30k) - they couldn't afford to stay up with me for the same reason. Being gentlemen and good eggs they stuck with me. Post shot they went home on a bingo profile just as Point Mugu declared itself IFR...poor b#ggers.

Anyway. I'm not slinging spears for the sake of it - if you flew a British aircraft in the period we're talking about - it had significant short comings, that's why we loved them - look at the morale on the Jag force! Awesome community, awesome blokes, somewhat sub-optimal platform...same as ours in the FA2 community...same as everyone else really!

Take care, fly safe.

[dat581]

Actually if comparing the F14A and FRS1 for what they were designed to do the Tomcat wins hands down. The F14 was designed to protect the fleet from Russian bombers and do it from as far from the fleet as possible. Much less chance of a bomber or martime patrol aircraft defeating a Phoenix shot than a harrier. The FRS1 was designed to "hack the shad" which can be thought of as bomber and bear swotting lite at ranges much closer to the fleet and probably well within Russian anti ship missile launch range.

[orca]

Does anyone have any (reliable/fact based) information on the Phoenix?

It sounded awesome...when I was at school...but thinking of the kill chain required and its reputation (deserved or otherwise - I have no idea!) as the Phoeni-bomb, presumably due to its propensity to fall earthward...I wonder if it was actually any good?

I would be very interested to hear from an operator what they thought of it.

[Wingswinger]

A smashing little video. Thanks very much, B word. It brought a tear to my eye. I flew GR3s in RAF Germany in the late 1970s and fancied a go at the SHAR after my subsequent tour as a QWI at Brawdy but the mighty swing-wing wonder-bomber got in the way!

[Just This Once...]

http://www.fas.org/man//dod-101/sys/ac/f-14-3b.jpg

F-14 with a mixed missile load did have the Gene Hunt factor.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr29z3vDKk1qgi3fu.jpg

[Lower Hangar]

Following my recent input on the subject of the final FRS1 Std ie Phase 1 Avionics Update (see 20th Feb), I forgot to add that in addition to the other goodies (I/A Blue Fox, Madge etc ), the update included Sea Eagle. We never fired one 'out' of BAe Dunsfold but I think Fred Fredrickson fired one off XZ440 after a ramp launch from Invincible with 1x Sea Eagle on 1 side and a 190 gallon tank on the other.

[initials]

Lower hangar

Here is 440 at Benbecula during Sea Eagle trials in 1994 http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr20/blackbox1994/Benbecula/ben49a.jpg
Initials

[Lower Hangar]

initials

Great picture - Thanks

Lower Hangar