Cameron's latest jaunt

[crewmeal]

Just out of interest whose aircraft flew Cameron to India? Sky showed him running down the steps at BOM and there was a shot of what looked like an A320.

[Fargoo]

I believe he flew out on a Virgin A340-600 to Mumbai. No idea who they chose to use internally.

[StainesFS]

Yes, it looks like it was VIR9951 on G-VEIL. There is no sign of this aircraft having left so perhaps it will be used for any planned internal flights.

SFS

[ATNotts]

I know it's controversial, but when Merkel, Hollande, Putin, Obama, Gillard and just about every other Prime Minister or Head of State travel they use a "State" aircraft whether it be a 747, A310, IL96 or whatever else.

Surely it's about time the UK had a similar government transport to carry our elected leader, and our head of state.

Chartering a commercial aircraft just doesn't send the right message - in my opinion.

How about a VC10 - after all it is British!!

[crewmeal]

It was a Virgin A340-600 - ITV news showed him running down the stairs but the angle of the camera was different.

I guess if there was an official government aircraft to ferry our leader around the world there would be so much negative press against it. Then what would happen to it when it wasn't flying?

[N707ZS]

He seems to be dashing about out there quite alot has he got "Delhi belly".

After the comments about Blairforce one I presume he dare not buy an aircraft.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

I know it's controversial, but when Merkel, Hollande, Putin, Obama, Gillard and just about every other Prime Minister or Head of State travel they use a "State" aircraft whether it be a 747, A310, IL96 or whatever else.

Surely it's about time the UK had a similar government transport to carry our elected leader, and our head of state.

Our head of state is the Queen. She's got a whole squadron:ok:

[Gulf4uk]

Her Maj might have a whole Squadren but uses Civilian Aircraft on most
overseas Flights and Family members use a lot of smaller Biz Types
London Execs aircraft a lot of the time.
The whole idea of UK HM Queen 1 was dropped because of cost same as
Royal boat.

Tony
farnborough local (non nimby)

[Larrylaz]

State aircraft!!! You can pay - I'm opting out!!!

[VC10man]

I think a lovely VC10 would be great.:rolleyes:

The OP refers to Cameron's latest jaunt. I think the trip is to sell products to India, there are a lot of business men accompanying him. If he manages to sell Typhoons to India he will have done a very good job IMO.:D

[Denti]

Merkel and all other political figures including the opposition have quite a few aircraft at their disposal. The fleet consists of two A340-300 (ex Lufthansa), two brand new A319 ACJ, four brand new Global 5000 and three Cougar AS-532. Additionally six A310 are used, however mainly as MRTT, flying intensive care unit, personel and cargo transportation. There was quite a bit of a discussion when that fleet was renewed last time, however it was of no question that military transportation needs to be there at a moments notice for VIP transport of the countries political leaders. Quite often there will be a delegation of press and business persons accompanying merkel on her travels and the A340 has enough space to take them along. Besides of course having a bed room, private office and so on.

To be honest all that costs money, quite a bit actually. But compared to the whole budget its negligible and the aircraft are military registered providing the possibility to protective measures that are not possible on line aircraft.

[Gulf4uk]

sky reporter said this morning that he was at the Airport Waiting to fly home
So All you #DAVE Lovers can go to EGLL and Wait for him and Wave.
While your at it get him to say how much this Jolly has cost you the Taxpayer

Tony:mad:

[1DC]

It is quite likely that the cost to you the tax payer is zero. The costs are often fully covered by the accompanying business people and journalists who have to pay..

[jackieofalltrades]

There's a few Concordes knocking around not doing much these days.
They would make a good impression arriving on foreign soil.

[RedhillPhil]

We should just dust off a Comet to remind all everywhere who started this jet airiner malarky.:)

[Skipness One Echo]

While your at it get him to say how much this Jolly has cost you the Taxpayer
Key issue is we've lost sight of what taxpayers need to pay for. Want decent hard working MPs? Pay market rate for smart talented clever people then.
Want to be taken seriously internationally? Have the basics to get your people from A to B in safety and a little style. It should not be beyond the wit of man to have 1-2 A332s or A319s avaialble from a finded RAF VIP pool. Used as medevac or troops transports as and when required.

Instead we get Cameron flying the logo of one of the companies involved in the West Coast main line fiasco. Force projection and diplomacy ought not to have a commercial sponsor. The state is already enormous, we just don't get the basics right.

[VC10man]

I remember Mrs Thatcher going on foreign trips on a VC10 and later on a Concorde and a fine sight they were (the planes that is). Sadly the Concorde has gone and the VC10s are very old and would not create a good impression if you wanted to impress foreign customers.
In hardened times it would be rather extravagant to buy a large jet just for politicians to use. I think it is much better to charter, as happens now. The Virgin A340-600 has Rolls Royce engines, so is a good choice to try to sell Airbus or RR.
Somehow I do not think Virgin were the naughty ones in the West coast rail fiasco, they seem to be doing a good job.

[Skipness One Echo]

In hardened times it would be rather extravagant to buy a large jet just for politicians to use.
For the Queen? The PM and the press? HM Foreign Secretary? This idea it's only for politicians is a new one, fed by the bollocks from the media. Now I think the pond life are a big old waste of space half the time but we're up against the Chinese for God's sake, one needs to try.

Is it so hard to have a special tasked mini fleet of RAF A319s in amongst the A330s? Short term good headlines gave us the nonsense of PFI, which put off the VC10 replacement for decades and made the A330 deal a poor one. Just *buy* some A319s. Of course we might have to cut foreign aid or something. ok:

If it's worth doing then fund it, if not, stop doing it. No *magic* Blairite "third way".

[VC10man]

I can remember when the Queen travelled on an Andover of the Queen's Flight.
Is this the sort of thing you want?

[Skipness One Echo]

No, a modern fit for purpose aircraft like an A319 or a B737 BBJ. Somewhere sensible between a Palatial willy waving A380 or B747-400 and chartering from Branson or Astraeus or whoever had something free and available.

It works for the Germans, French, Belgians, South Africans, Australians etc etc. Tony Blair once got left behind as PM as his chartererd DC8 went tech. What does that say about UK plc? It's not difficult and other countries seem to manage with a small fleet.

[Gulf4uk]

That DC8 was real Nice HB-IGH
Photos: McDonnell Douglas DC-8-72 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/0795344/M/) Picture there for those that
dont remember it Sadly i believe went for scrap in USA

Tony

[Gove N.T.]

"Want to be taken seriously internationally? Have the basics to get your people from A to B in safety and a little style."

I suggest that this charter is doing everyone a bit of good.
It's money for the airline being paid for by the company representatives in the group. Virgin flies to Delhi & Bombay - with more expected.

Having a "government airplane" sitting around is hugely expensive - a complete waste of money. Can you think of the sock sandalled lib dems and greens moaning about pollution blah blah

Stick to charters - it's cheaper and the onus is on the airline to make sure it's fit for purpose

[N707ZS]

They have been cutting A319s up at St Athan recently I wonder what they would of cost to refurbish for the Northolt squadrons.

[Skipness One Echo]

Having a "government airplane" sitting around is hugely expensive - a complete waste of money.
So the Germans are just moneny wasters? Previously such aircraft were part of the RAF and drawn from normal trooping and medevac duties. A VC10 has the same passenger load as a B737 btw, and 10SQ was good at what they did. Medevac, trooping and VIP rolled into one. That's what we need, only a particular tabloid view sees that as "govt aircraft sitting doing nothing." It's a state asset, ideally well used. Everyone wins as we have it in times of need.

[paully]

Skipness

You are very right indeed. Its about time we had these sort of multi role aircraft available. The problem is the politicos..no nothing let alone balls, they always listen to the..``spending needs to be on NHS blah blah..education blah blah `` brigade, not to mention the looney tree huggers. I despair :ugh:

[crewmeal]

Paully - you are forgetting foreign aid as well!

[Guest 112233]

Surely the PM can hire a Gulf-stream V or similar for his jaunts . A BBJ for the hangers on, or a "Victorville" recent placement, nice and shiny, cut the red tape. If it lights up it goes, MPNS/RVSM is for wimps - Point the beast in the right general direction FL275 +/- 1500 ft or so with an astrolobe and compass or two, spare wheel, diplomatic clearance, supply of Pims + crisps and the world's your oyster.

CAT III

[SLF-Flyer]

Hot air balloon. Get four members of the Cabinet (from any party) in the basket and you have free fuel, plus it would keep going for years.

[Wycombe]

....and if the balloon goes pop it would be no sad loss

[ATNotts]

SKipness

You're absolutely right. If the head of state, or the PM is strutting the world stage it shouldn't be on a commercial airline. Imagine arriving at, say the G8, when Putin, Obama, Hollande, The Japanese PM (can't remember his name) and everyone else arrives in "State" transport, and Cameron turns up in a commercial airliner that simply doesn't stand out from the crowd - plenty of dim journos (and there are plenty of dim journos!) would probably think he'd turned up on a scheduled service.

Hardly the impression a world player (if that's what the the UK really is) wantsto give.

[DX Wombat]

An Andover of the Queen's Flight

http://www.airteamimages.com/pics/42/42964_800.jpg

The crest:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7232/7008847603_004f81d596_z.jpg

For those for whom English appears to be a second language and who do not wish to appear completely ignorant and uneducated, I feel I should let you know that the correct terms are: would have, could have, should have etc, NOT would of, could of, etc.

[Jamie-Southend]

Amen be jeezus

[airsmiles]

I'd personally vote for a A340-500 or two, which are cheap at the moment, and I'd have a new Royal/Government Yacht.

We aim too low and should be selling ourselves to the world, but we pitch ourselves as a cash-strapped nation who muddles through in a rudderless way. The fact is state aircraft and ships can be valuable sales tools, medical/emergency evacuation equipment, floating trade missions and the VIP transport element is secondary. Only luddites get het up about effective use of cash on such things.

Anyone for some truly visionary politicians with balls to create some policies that will lead the country out of its current mess? Step one - believe in yourself. Step two - forget the short-termist rhetoric and start laying the fundamental building blocks for growth.

[Skipness One Echo]

I'd personally vote for a A340-500 or two, which are cheap at the moment
That would potentially be a good deal, some commonaility with the A330s that are coming and enough room for VIPs and press.

[Need to Know Basis]

The Queen should have an aircraft. She is the Head of State and deserves it especilaly with all those sales trips flogging stuff to the Qataris.

Politicians, Prime Minister and assorted hangers on ? Private Jet - no way. Lowest form of life.All of them. We should have used the Expenses scandal and lead them all out to Parliament Square to the gallows or firing squad or both. Never should a low life Politician be extended such a priviledge. Best we could do is pay for a Ryan Air ticket and prefereably one way and they still have to pay for their own coffee.

[airsmiles]

I appreciate the sentiment 'Need to Know Basis' but the fact is our Politicians should also be out there selling the country as well and should use the same tools as the Head of State. The fact that most politicians are seen as worse than dog do's now is a separate issue.

I hear Singapore Airlines are selling their A340-500's back to Airbus and Thai International also have some for sale. These are supremely capable aircraft that are not economically viable for airlines, and are the perfect Government aircraft. An alternative would be the B777-200LR which is another capable Ultra Long-haul aircraft that isn't economically justified by airlines.

Message for the Government: For god's sake stop scratching your arses and tinkering around the edges; make some sweeping decisions and get on with it!