Belvedere aircrew in Borneo

[Aerodynamik]

Hi all, I'm working on a painting of a Belvedere over Borneo, circa early 60's. It's depicted with the door and cockpit window open showing the crew. My question is - what would the pilot and loady have been wearing. ie flightsuit or combats?, what colour, helmets? etc. I've tried the usual google searches but find any clear shots,
TIA, Steve

[Tiger_mate]

All the answers to questions you have not even thought about yet can be found inside this thread. Good luck with the painting.

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/485933-any-borneo-whirlwind-veterans-here.html

[Aerodynamik]

Thanks for the link Tiger, very useful and interesting reading. Great painting by the way as well.
cheers, Steve

[Old-Duffer]

When you get further into the painting, do please post it so we can have a look.

Old Duffer

[D120A]

I showed this thread to a friend of mine who was a Belvedere pilot on 66 Sqn in Borneo. He is not a member of PPRuNe so I can reply on his behalf. He said:

"during the period, 1963 to 1966, we wore regular RAF flying overalls, co;loured blue. Our bone dome helmets were white."

Hope that helps.

[Old-Duffer]

Not entirely complete, if I may be so bold.

The RAF crews flying helicopters wore the Mk1 'bone dome' with the cotton weave inner helmet. Many wore a throat mic which had initially been procured for armoured vehicle crews and were purchased en bloc from a surplus store in Stoke on Trent for those going through Tern Hill or previously Ternhill. Locally purchased throat mics were also used and one or two people even started off with a mask located mic - but not too many.

Initially, the flying suits were the cotton blue version which were quite a heavy weave and so people wore jungle green slacks and a JG shirt/jacket. Later, flying suits were obtained from australian sources and these were green but I think they were actually made of a synthetic material which caused palpitations amongst the safety community as they lost their flame retardant qualities, being washed very frequently. A looser weave green cotton suit appeared later.

Footwear was very much a 'takes 'yer choice'. RAF flying boots were not popular and rubber and canvas jungle boots were available, whilst many people wore chukka/desert boots. I have a photograph of a Whirlwind pilot at Long Somado wearing a pair of leather SD shoes but this was unusual.

Cape leather flying gloves were mainly white - well they were when new - but they quickly became discoloured.

Most people wore a Mae West with a SARBE rather than a SARAH beacon and with various bits and pieces of survival equipment. Some people flew with the single seat dinghy in a satchel type back pack and many aircraft carried an MS5 dinghy attached to the floor or sidewall of a Whirlwind.

Flak jackets were sometimes worn and sometimes sat on - certainly after an incident where a bullet came through the bottom of the aircraft and penetrated the seat cushion to the alarm of the pilot.

Firearms were often carried and ranged from .38 revolvers or 9mm pistols, via pump action shotguns to sten/sterlings. Aircraft could be fitted with attachments to mount something a bit more meaningful in doors or windows and some Whirlwinds were fitted with the SS11 wire guided missile, although I don't think it was ever fired in anger.

In conclusion, there seemed to be no hard and fast rules about what you wore and it seemed frequently dictated by what you could get! As with much else, somebody could produce an equally valid but completely different set of kit to that listed above and it would be accurate too.

Old Duffer

[Fitter2]

Beeb 2 Monday 18th Feb had a prog. 'Bitain on film'; clips from the 'Look at Life' Rank movies of the 60's. Included a section on Confrontation, and the clips of Whirlwinds confirmed my recollection of pilots in Mk 1 bonedomes and green growbags, crewman in jungle greens and jungle boots. Try

BBC iPlayer - Britain on Film: End of Empire (http://tinyurl.com/bjvhph3)

if in UK.

[Old-Duffer]

Oh, I forgot. The Mark 1 bonedome was often the sort of silver/blue rather than white.

O-D

[Pontius Navigator]

Later, flying suits were obtained from australian sources and these were green but I think they were actually made of a synthetic material which caused palpitations amongst the safety community as they lost their flame retardant qualities, being washed very frequently.

I know some of our Vulcan Det got hold of these but certainly not enough for one each.

Footwear was very much a 'takes 'yer choice'. RAF flying boots were not popular and rubber and canvas jungle boots were available, whilst many people wore chukka/desert boots.

We tended to wear our own desert boots for desert flying (NEAF) and green canvas high lace jungle boots in FEAF. The jungle boots would have been good as they could be fastened firmly when trekking in a swamp. Like Aussie flying suits they were only a loan item to be returned on leaving the theatre.

Talk about penny pinching.

[Fareastdriver]

Like Aussie flying suits they were only a loan item to be returned on leaving the theatre

We steely eyed helicopter pilots didn't have that problem. We would order ours through the the Army supply net. They would be packed in the back of a Beverly and parachuted down to us.

As soon as it left the ramp it was class C stores, non returnable.

[lsh]

You may get another clue from the picture of the Belvedere putting the spire on Coventry Cathedral?

Wrong theatre but same/similar kit.

lsh
:E

[Warmtoast]

You may get another clue from the picture of the Belvedere putting the spire on Coventry Cathedral?

As here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/483902-coventry-cathedral-belvedere-footage.html#post7166168

[Old-Duffer]

A sequel to the RAF putting the spire and its flechette on the roof of Coventry Cathedral was the appointment of a pacifist Bishop of Coventry.

The cathedral declined to allow military and cadet organisations to hold services and events in the cathedral and the bishop subsequently appeared on TV from Dresden stating that bomber command aircrews were mass murderers. When I challenged him on this statement he refused to debate the issue saying - and I quote - 'I have more important things to do'.

The Reverend Sir is no longer the incumbent but when attempting to get some information about the spire fixing, I was helped greatly by those involved with the cathedral's shop and PR - I felt it tactful not to mention my previous spat with their former bishop!!

Old Duffer

[consub]

I like your Whirlwind painting, regarding the Belvedere, while I was with 66 at Kuching, the jockeys wore JG trousers and JG shirt with sleeves rolled up, bonedomes, can't remember colour but pretty sure they were different to crewman which was matt silver.We all used throat mikes, and I did not like them at all, and crackled a lot if were not tight and moved around. SARBE beacons were used as the Belvedere had Violet Picture not Green salad, and you can chat with SARBE. As well as pistols, sterlings and two magazines each were carried. Cockpit doors were normally closed in flight, although Stbd door was opened in hover and when unloading, the rear hatch was always left on the ground, and the sliding door was always left open to give a flow of air through the cabin. If ground crew are in picture, they mostly wore shorts and flipflops and thats all.

[Tankertrashnav]

We all used throat mikes, and I did not like them at all,

Bit of thread drift, but I once went for a Sunday morning flight in Hong Kong in an Auster of the HKAAF. The pilot had been on the sauce the night before and was distinctly green about the gills. Half way into the flight he suddenly threw up on the floor which made for some spectacular sound affects through the throat mike he was using!

I witnessed the final flypast of 66 at Seletar in 1967, when, if memory serves, they managed to get 9 serviceable, by some miracle.

[NutLoose]

Consub, for you..

ROYAL AIR FORCE 1950 - 1967 (RAF-T 5253) (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205214010)

They do hold more of 66 at Kuching but they are not online
See

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=&items_per_page=10&page=1&f[0]=agentString%3ARoyal%20Air%20Force%2C%2066%20Squadron