QFE-Queen's Field Elevation?

[JammedStab]

Of course, we are all somewhat familiar with the Q-Codes. QNE, QNH, QFE, etc.

There is a Wikipedia writeup about the Q-code history dating back to 1909.

Q code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code)

To quote...."The original Q codes were created, circa 1909, by the British government as a "list of abbreviations... prepared for the use of British ships and coast stations licensed by the Postmaster General".[citation needed] The Q codes facilitated communication between maritime radio operators speaking different languages, so they were soon adopted internationally."

A link is provided from Wikipedia to the 1909 issue of the Handbook for the Wireless Telegraph Operators. No mention is made of the Queen, whoever she was way back then.

Q-Signals 1909 (http://www.telegraph-office.com/pages/q-signals-1909.html)

So I was surprised to see a Boeing article referring to QFE as Queen's Field Elevation, QNE as Queen's Natural Elevation and QNH as Queen's Natural Height.

Aero 16 - Polar Route Operations (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_16/polar_story.html)

Honeywell also has the same terminology

http://www5.honeywell.com/aero/common/documents/EGPWS_Glossary.pdf

Could it be a mistake to have an association of the Queen with the Q-codes?

[BOAC]

I suspect it is a colonial cock up deriving from the 'old' phonetic alphabet where 'Q' was pronounced 'Queenie', 'N' 'Nan' and 'H' 'How'. Thus 'Queenie Nan How' as QNH - and they didn't notice it had changed. (1956 :ugh:)

[LimaFoxTango]

Could it be that Queen was used for "Q" before it was changed to Quebec?

[500 above]

I'll answer this after I've finished my QLT.

[BOAC]

I think you are confusing Q code with B code - as in 'I am finishing my BLT'?

[flyingchanges]

Hones, when we first got the F100 the abbreviations index actually said "BLT = sandwich".

I wish I had kept a copy of that page.

[syseng68k]

I think the main reason for abbreviations of that type was that most comms in the day
were done in morse, where abbreviation cuts transmission time and is more easily
remembered as a rhythmical sequence of dot / dashes.

Never became radio amateur, but the morse test was a requirement up until only
a few years ago, iirc...

[fantom]

I wish I had kept a copy of that page.

Still have my Air Europe books somewhere in the garage. If I can find them, I'll post a copy here.

[tommoutrie]

over 30 years ago I used to go and see an 80 year old man down the road who was a very enthusiastic radio ham and he used to always be saying CQ CQ CQ DX. He told me that it meant "seek you distant station". All the other codes he used started with a Q and meant Question or reQuest. I don't know if thats true but this ICAO list seems to back him up.

Ralf D. Kloth DL4TA - List of Q-codes (http://www.kloth.net/radio/qcodes.php)

he was a nice old chap. One of the founders of the radio network that went along the trans canada railway. He let me shoot a breeze block in the shed with a luger that he got in the war on fireworks night once. My ears are still ringing.

[BBK]

I had an old RT manual that said QFE and QNH were field elevation and nautical height respectively. It was the only time I saw mention of what the letters, allegedly, stood for. Of course when I was teaching I'd always say that QNH represented altitude.....before the pedants give me grief. ;)

[octavian]

Oddly enough we were discussing Q codes at work the other evening. Not sure where the Q came from but others have posted probable sources.

Thoughts on a few of them and yes, I have a book but Lord knows where it is.

QFE Field Elevation
QNH Newlyn High (High water mark in Cornish port?)
QDM Direction Magnetic
QDR Direction Reciprocal
QTE True ??????
QGH Ground Homing

QSY See You!

[chevvron]

The water level at Newlyn was chosen as the 'Ordnance Datum' by the original Ordnance Survey surveyors, so anything you see quoted as 'X feet AOD' (above Ordnance Datum) is the same as 'X feet amsl'.

[jpilotj]

It is my understanding that Q was short for Quote. I may be entirely wrong but would make sense in the above posts...I.e - QNH = Quote Nil Height

[WHBM]

Messages were originally Morse in plain language; as short codes developed it was useful if they started with something distinctive in the middle of the string of characters. Q is a good one because it is uncommon, and also almost always followed by a U, so if a Q came in the rapid-fire string, followed by say an N, then the recipient realised that it was a code promptly.

With a Q starting 3-letter codes you only have two left for the actual message, so all sorts of informal aide-memoire sprang up to know them by. I've heard all sorts of different ones for QNH and QFE over time. Remember also that it is primarily a shipping approach - by the time W/T came along in aircraft, the shipping users had got all the good codes.

[TURIN]

My old instructor told me the Q was for 'Query'.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[911slf]

My ears are still ringing.

Some people are more troubled than others by this.

Seriously, do not use firearms, especially indoors, without hearing protection - unless you are responding to a life threatening attack.

[Ian W]

QFE-Queen's Field Elevation?
Of course, we are all somewhat familiar with the Q-Codes. QNE, QNH, QFE, etc.

There is a Wikipedia writeup about the Q-code history dating back to 1909.

Q code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code)

To quote...."The original Q codes were created, circa 1909, by the British government as a "list of abbreviations... prepared for the use of British ships and coast stations licensed by the Postmaster General".[citation needed] The Q codes facilitated communication between maritime radio operators speaking different languages, so they were soon adopted internationally."

A link is provided from Wikipedia to the 1909 issue of the Handbook for the Wireless Telegraph Operators. No mention is made of the Queen, whoever she was way back then.

Q-Signals 1909 (http://www.telegraph-office.com/pages/q-signals-1909.html)

So I was surprised to see a Boeing article referring to QFE as Queen's Field Elevation, QNE as Queen's Natural Elevation and QNH as Queen's Natural Height.

Aero 16 - Polar Route Operations (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_16/polar_story.html)

Honeywell also has the same terminology

http://www5.honeywell.com/aero/commo...S_Glossary.pdf (http://www5.honeywell.com/aero/common/documents/EGPWS_Glossary.pdf)

Could it be a mistake to have an association of the Queen with the Q-codes?


If the first letter was to have represented royalty then in 1909 it would have been K as the UK had a King in 1909.

So where did Q come from? Well in 1909 most if not all radio messaging was in Morse Code. To get the receiver's attention that what was being sent was special a standard easy to recognize letter in Morse would be used in a way that could not be confused. "Q: - dah dah dit dah - (or prosaically the rhythm of - 'Here comes the bride') not followed by a "U" must mean that the three letters Q _ _ were the Q-code for something.

A more informative link is
Ralf D. Kloth DL4TA - List of Q-codes (http://www.kloth.net/radio/qcodes.php)

Note this gives some of ICAO PANS ABC Doc 8400

Interestingly look at the real meaning of QNH and QFF

Hope that helps

[Dan Winterland]

A three letter group starting with a Q and without a U after was the best way of passing information in a code group via morse code. If an operator heard --.-, then it was highly likely it was going to be a Q code group. I saw a list of the complete set once - there are hundreds!

[Dan Winterland]

Just clicked on Ian W's link. Thanks - seen it again!