EASA conversion

[Scotch Bonnet]

As a holder of a UK CAA ATPL H and a military pilot with 25 yrs flying experience, I was slightly surprised to find that I had to get a SRG 1199 (English Language Assessment) as part of my application process for my EASA licence. I am fully aware of the limitations of 22 Groups expertise when it comes to gaining licence exemptions but WTF! Ladies and Gentlemen of 22 Group I salute you. :ugh: :D

[Marly Lite]

It is not 22 Gp's lack of expertise that means you are required to gain an English language assessment, it is yours.

[BEagle]

It is not 22 Gp's lack of expertise that means you are required to gain an English language assessment, it is yours.

Wrong! Any RAF pilot must have passed GCE 'O' Level English Language, therefore he/she should be exempt from the stupid CAA ICAO Level 6 assessment criteria.

Why doesn't 22 Gp push for this? Incidentally, it was only when I pointed out that they'd forgotten about it that they applied for (and were granted) exemption criteria from the FRTOL practical for QMPs and EFTGs. If exempt the practical, your English must de facto meet the relevant criteria as it has been accepted that you don't need to be tested!

[Marly Lite]

Fair one, maybe the CAA should grant exemption based on presentation of exam certificates.

[Curtis E Carr]

Any RAF pilot must have passed GCE 'O' Level English Language, therefore he/she should be exempt from the stupid CAA ICAO Level 6 assessment criteria.

While we're at it, what about civilian pilots who have a GCSE, A level or a degree in English?

Why should only the RAF be exempt?

[Marly Lite]

Agreed. "Acceptable means of compliance" springs to mind.

[2close]

Yep, it is absolutely daft and even dafter when I, as an English for Aviation Assessor, have to carry out English Language Assessments for guys born and bred in the UK, who can and only ever have spoken one language, English, because the UK airline HR tick list says they need to be able to formally demonstrate knowledge of the English language....English O Levels, A Levels, even degrees don't count!!

The UK does have an informal assessment process, which permits UK CAA approved Flight, Type Rating & RT Examiners (even the non-fluent English speaking ones) to sign off a native English speaking person (or any fluent English speaking person) at Level 6 during any Flight, TR or RT Test. The SRG 1199 should be completed at the same time as the test Report. QMP's are only exempt the training not the tests so just make sure you get the examiner to sign off the SRG 1199 at the test.

I have formally tested (and passed at Level 6) several QMPs needing evidence of formal assessment for foreign airlines which won't accept informal assessments, but the formal face-to-face testing process is a tad OTT for persons who are obviously Level 6. Therefore, we are currently looking at a very abridged version of the formal test, for native English speakers only, which we hope to be able to offer via Skype or some other webcam based system in the near future.

:mad:

[2close]

"Acceptable means of compliance" springs to mind.

But it has to be acceptable to the Acceptable Means of Compliance.....:ugh:

[Marly Lite]

Hilarious really. If you can pass the exams, then you have fair command of the language. End of, as it were.

[BEagle]

QMP's are only exempt the training not the tests so just make sure you get the examiner to sign off the SRG 1199 at the test.



Nope. See CAP 804 30 January 2013 Part I Section 4 Part O page 2 para 3:

Military Pilots qualified as an EFTG, SERP or QMP in this Part shall be credited the RTF Practical Test.

If credited the test, they should reasonably be credited the English Language assessment. If not, why not?

[2close]

Oops, my apologies: I should have qualified my statement with 'exempt flight training not flight tests'.

Nobody is automatically granted English Language by virtue of passing the RT Test, irrespective of nationality, however, the RT examiner can sign off a candidate at Level 6 (only). As no RT test is undertaken by QMP, there is no facility (in this respect) for an examiner to sign off the 1199.

However, it could be done by the Flight Examiner. The flight test MUST be done BEFORE licence issue; the English Language informal assessment can be done concurrently with the flight test, the 1199 is completed at the conclusion of the flight test in a matter of seconds, maybe minutes, it doesn't cost any more (unless the examiner charges for the signature), so what is the problem? :confused:

The other option would be to get 22 Gp to request the CAA to add a certification by CO etc. to SRG 2133 (QMP MAS Exemption).

:)

[twothree]

Also check out latest CAP 804 Section 4 Part M page 4

[Lord Spandex Masher]

I'm English. I had a language assessment as part of a recurrent sim session. The sim guy was Dutch. My engine failure at V1 "was done good" according to the written report.

[Trim Stab]

The CAA could be more sensible about this. My French ATPL is marked "level 6 French VFR/IFR" even though I have never taken any sort of French r/t exam. When I asked the DGAC why, they replied that since I had done my training in France, I was automatically judged to be level 6 in French.

[Cows getting bigger]

Guys, don't get aggrieved with 22 Gp. As a CAA approved Examiner I was asked to provide evidence of my Level 6 competency. I pointed-out that the CAA had spent the last few years happily accepting assessment I had made on other pilots. :ugh:

PS. The Irish are worse - they will not accept a UK CAA assessment. You have to pay the IAA the best part of EURO 200 to complete their in-house assessment, to be sure. :rolleyes:

[Trim Stab]

The French DGAC would not accept my CAA level 6 English either. I had to take their own English exam, which involves transcribing recordings of real ATC from UK, USA and Australia. I corrected all the spam-speak and convict-chat into Queen's English - which the DGAC marked as incorrect, so I ended up with only level 5 in English. All rather ironic, as they gave me level 6 in French without even taking an exam!

[AdLib]

incroy-f*kin-able

If only we had the same shoulder-shrugging attitude to bureaucracy ...

[What Now]

This was totally seamless for me, so much so that I barely noticed. I arranged a flight test to have a single engine piston put on my licence and whilst I was there the examiner said "I assume since you have had your licence for a few years that you have not done the English test?" To which I replied no and be signed me up. Done.

[The Old Fat One]

If only we had the same shoulder-shrugging attitude to bureaucracy

Actually it's very little to do with bureaucracy...pilot training is a cash cow, to milked relentlessly, by everybody and by any means possible.

Trust me...it will end in tears.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

pilot training is a cash cow, to milked relentlessly


What Fer Tuck??