Colour Codes

[Dave Clarke Fife]

Hopefully not too nerdy a question but any reason that the colour codes blu through red are all "standard" but ylo is subdivided into 1 (500'/2500m)and 2 (300'/1600m)?

Can't be as simple as running out of acceptable colours is it?

[fantom]

Don't forget black, as in 'who's blacked the bog?'.

[Courtney Mil]

You need a QFI to answer that one. I think it may have been because Yellow on it's own didn't show whether it was suitable for un-rated studes to fly. Or something like that.

And yes, it is a bit nerdy.

BEags will know.

[isaneng]

Courtney, you just made me spill my cuppa....

[Dave Clarke Fife]

Black indicates the closure of the runway but is not a weather state indicator.... But thanks for the reminder. So that's another colour used up😉

[Dave Clarke Fife]

Sorry for the nerdiness Courtney especially on a Sunday......I'm just trying to keep busy waiting for this afternoons rugger to start

[Tinribs]

There were different shades of black according to closed for crosswind blocked flooded or lack of emergency services

[fantom]

How about Green/Master Green instrument ratings?

[Dominator2]

More important, why can the fixed wing DH not now be 100ft since instrumentation and performance of modern ac is so much better. I would have been quite happy to fly to 100ft DH in the F3 on a HUD approach if the PAR/ILS was cleared. Maybe Master Greens should be allowed to use a 100ft DH?

I'm sure we all remember when the Y1/Y2 was got rid of by the RAF and then re-intoduced due to popular demand. I believe that it gives a simple indication of when the weather if fit for Green Cards or White Cards. When you are busy in a single seater conducting a mission it is a simple, unambiguous way of receiving the weather.

[Courtney Mil]

I'm just trying to keep busy waiting for this afternoons rugger to start

Me too! :ok:

No difference between wx limits between G and MG. 200' will do. What about White Rats?

[BEagle]

I don't know whether it's the same today, but those who only held White Ratings used to have to add 200 ft to the calculated DH.

The minimum DH was 200 ft, so the minimum White Rated DH was 400 ft. In YLO1, with a 500 ft minimum ceiling, no problemo. But with YLO2 having a 300 ft minimum ceiling, if it was OVC a White Rated pilot couldn't get in.

Hence a rule of thumb that YLO1 and better was OK for White Rated mates, whilst YLO2 was OK for G/MG - the subdivision of YLO was very useful.

[Courtney Mil]

I knew you would know, BEags.

Oh, and before anyone accidentally gets the wrong impression, I didn't mean "It's nerdy so ask BEags". I meant "BEags will know and yes it is a bit nerdy", if you see what I mean. :ok:

[ShyTorque]

Beagle a nerd? Never. I've been left nearly twenty years since and even I knew the answer. :E

[oxenos]

As well as G , MG, and white, there was the blue instrument rating, printed on pale blue card.

" Hold this card up to the sky. If the card and the sky match, you are qualified to fly."

[BEagle]

No snags, Courtney me old!

Incidentally, another gotcha of the colour code system is that it in the UK and a few other nations it refers to the base of cloud with 3/8 or more cover, whereas pretty well everyone else uses a 'ceiling' of 5/8 or more...... This can sucker you, as I once found out in my brief F-4 time when leading a pair back visually to WTM. There'd been a little low cloud on departure, but not a lot and we were thus YLO. On recovery, the cloud was considerably more developed and schneebling to avoid the Mendelsham mast wasn't much fun, neither was groping around the circuit after the break.... In retrospect a pairs GCA would probably have saved time, but hey, weren't we supposed to be punchy fighter drivers.....:hmm:

Single seat drivers rarely have the option of listening out for ATIS and asking for the full weather on RTB made one sound like a trucky. But why the UK aerodrome colour state system sticks with 3/8 or more seems strange - it seems tantamount to crying 'Wolf' when conditions aren't actually as bad as they sound...

[unclenelli]

It's a Navy thing - they sub-divided YLO into the 2 we have now.

All that happened, is they got things their way.

[NutLoose]

And just to be totally nerdy, black and white are not actually colours... :8

[fantom]

No difference between wx limits between G and MG

Sorry, attack of stupidity; I meant W and G/MG.

[Dominator2]

unclenelli,

I think that you will find that a long time ago the RAF and FAA used Y1 and Y2. Some time late 70s early 80s the RAF decided to go to Yellow. A few years later we saw the error of our ways. It was one of the few things the RN got right when concerned with aviation.

[Courtney Mil]

It was one of the few things the RN got right when concerned with aviation.

Fight's On!

[CoffmanStarter]

Colours ... Far out man !

http://www.privatefly.com/export/PrivateFly/.content/images/ask-the-pilot/aviation_weather_colour_codes.png

[ORAC]

You'd think there was a NATO standard, but I can remember checking the appropriate manual and finding the national variations. There were a couple of gotchas in there........

[lj101]

WEATHER FACTORS 1Gp
Take-Off. The following are minimum conditions for aircraft take-offs:
• Green rated pilots. Sufficient visibility for the aircraft to be kept straight without reference to instruments. At night, this is considered to be 3 consecutive side or centreline runway lights.
• White Rated pilots. Minimum Met Vis of 1000 m and cloudbase not lower than 200 ft.
• 1G310.140.10 Circling Approach Minima. The minimum reported Met Vis for all categories of circling approaches is 2500 m.
• The minimum actual and forecast weather for a diversion airfield is to be as follows:
• One airfield with no significant cloud below 700 ft and a minimum visibility of 3700m (Green or better); or,
• Two airfields, which can be in close proximity, with no cloud below 500 ft and minimum visibility of 2500m (Yellow 1), however only Green Rated pilots are permitted to operate under these conditions.
• When selecting a diversion, stations are to consider the minimum weather, both actual and forecast for the operating period, is no worse that the pilot’s instrument rating limit.
• An independent subsidiary runway may be nominated as the diversion when the actual and forecast weather is White or better.

Use of Civilian Airports as Diversions.
Unlike UK military METARs that report the lowest visibility that cause a colour state change, civilian METAR will only report the lowest visibility if this is less than 50% of the Prevailing Visibility (PREVIS) or less than 1500M. Therefore, unless the visibility reduces to 1500M (Amber), you can only guarantee that the visibility is actually half of the PREVIS. As a result, when selecting a Civilian diversion, Sqns are to factor any PREVIS such that only half the declared visibility is guaranteed.

This may be out of date.

Etc etc

[Courtney Mil]

Indeed, LJ. As for,

3 consecutive side or centreline runway lights

I always wondered if that meant I could count the pair either side of me, the two ahead and the two behind. Anyway, I thought that's what the compass is for.

[Dominator2]

Lj101,

Unfortunately I think that you are a little out of date with some of your 1 Gp Rules. "Sufficient visibility for the aircraft to be kept straight without reference to instruments" is definately not acceptable to those who fly civilian registered ac in the RAF.I believefor them a minimum RVR or Met Vis is required for takeoff. I used to laugh in the last days of the Dominie at Cranwell when being told by some youth (Tutor QFI) that "you can't go flying in that weather, the vis is only 300 meters". To which the answer was "of couse I can, it's legal and in my opinion safe"
I believe that soon all Brit Military ac will soon have to comply with civilian regulations. Best get a current IRE to answer. The RAF will loose some of it's operational capability by giving way to these risk adverse people who do not properly understand Military Operations.

[Moe Syzlak]

At Binbrook there was Yellow2 Wood. If you could just see it from dispersal
then it was Yellow2

[langleybaston]

Certainly until 1996 [when my crystal ball, fir cone, seaweed and pass were impounded] the Met Office never added other than:

BLU WHT GRN YLO AMB RED to any actual or forecast.

BLK was an ATC/OPS prerogataive.

YLO was never subdivided.

"The Board" in NATO was not subject to national [met] variations, only military interpretations.

"The Board" at JHQ Rheindahlen was started a year before my arrival as a rostered senior forecaster in 1980. Lads were still p*ssing themselves a year later. The PMeto had decreed a "Colour Board" in ther office, maintained by assistant number 1.
PMetO ordered buttons, coloured, magnetic, r a y g w b. Also board, metal. Map, NATO NW Europe. Fablon. Adhesive.

This was duly botched up and the grand unveiling. Neither r, o, y, g, w, or b adhered to fablon on map on board.

PMetO "its an inverse square law, fablon/ map/ adhesive too thick!"

Duly adjusted.

r,a,y,g,w and b still bit the dust.

"Sir, what's the board made of?"

"Aluminium alloy of course"

PMetO replaced very soon after, as was board.

When I arrived they were still larfing.

Best thing since sliced bread thereafter.

"David, were you expecting reds in Denmark?"

Sh1t!

[lj101]

Dominator

Source was a handbook I used last year - not had to refer to it since then but as you say, probably out of date. I didn't work with civilian registered aircraft.

[CoffmanStarter]

The Service loves Colour States ... The Met is Blue ... But the Station is Bikini Amber :}

[2Planks]

Does the (cloud) penetration certificate still exist at FTS's?

[Pontius]

• The minimum actual and forecast weather for a diversion airfield is to be as follows:

You big bunch of girls' blouses; who needs diversion airfields? Now when it's 'shipping it green' in the middle of the Atlantic (ahaaar), let me tell you about diversion airfields (ahhaaaaar again) :)

I once used the MG get out of jail free card to take off in zero/zero. Well, that was 'interesting'; kept straight using the heading in the HUD (as you'd expect) and duly took to the skies. Unfortunately got the leans and thought we were looping. I say 'we' because my mate was only a Green, so a pairs take-off was the only way we could get out of Denmark where we'd been playing with F16s. Well, I thought it was bad enough where I was sitting but #2 was having spatial awareness problems himself and didn't have a clue what was going on and only believed we weren't going to crash because he managed to grab a quick squint at the head-down AI and realise we weren't practicing IMC aeros. Where am I going with this story......ummm......errrrr......piss off Crabs, Fly Navy etc.

I think I'm getting old because I'm telling WIWO stories.....ahhhhhhh.

[Courtney Mil]

Pontius,

Pull yourself together, Man, you're rambling. Once again we see what happens if you suddenly stop taking your medication.

[BobbyT]

Nevermind Yellow, be thankful they didn't use Grey... There are 50 shades of those. Could get very complicated!

[Pontius]

Once again we see what happens if you suddenly stop taking your medication.

SSsshhhhh, it's a secret, Courtney, but I think I might have had too much medication. I think it's spelt Shiraz but it's made me very funny, a great dancer and incredibly good looking. Maybe time for another bottle.....I really love you....bloody Junior Service :p

[Courtney Mil]

Think I'll join you, Pontius.

[cuefaye]

Tad early, what!

(AAh, 1201, maybe not)

[Courtney Mil]

Lunchtime cocktail hour. Pink gins on the veranda.

[Geehovah]

When it hit Yellow 2 in RAFG, that was the time to consider a GCA after pulling out of low level.

[Wholigan]

Quite right Geehovah. Best sort of weather to go low flying in Germany, as no other bugger was out in it! :E