Hi-viz "approved" colors

[BackPacker]

(Serious question - serious answers only please - at least initially. I know this question may invite ridicule at certain places. So feel free to start the ridicule, but only once a few serious and helpful answers have been given, and we're on page 2.)

Does anybody know if there's a list of "approved"/"recommended"/whatnot colors or designs for hi-viz vests, somewhere, for use at airfields?

(Reason I'm asking is we're organizing charity events at airfields where hi-viz is mandatory. We want the organizers to comply with the requirements to wear hi-viz, AND make the organizers stand out of the hi-viz wearing crowd for easy identification. So I guess the question really is: How do I make someone stand out in a crowd full of people wearing hi-viz clothing?)

[ChrisA87]

If there are lots of other hi-viz then wearers then you could give brightly coloured baseball caps/similar to the ones you want to stand out?

[blue up]

IIRC there is a certain %age that has to be reflective in the UK.

[Note. If stopped for insufficient reflective material you just rip the bottom coupla inches of non reflective off!]

[DaveW]

The British Standard for high visibility warning clothing is BS EN 471 (http://chpt.co.uk/BS_EN_471-2003.pdfhttp://chpt.co.uk/BS_EN_471-2003.pdf).

Don't tell my friends that I know this. :sad:

[dont overfil]

From memory there is a specification which I think I have seen in CAP 168 (Airfields). This is of course for the UK.

Apologies for not having the time or patience to dig out a link as you always seem to be able to do.:O

D.O.

[wsmempson]

The dayglo orange that you sometimes see worn by 'jobsworths' at airfields is meant to be exclusively for railway workers. It can be quite fun to point that out....:}

[Wookey]

However I do believe that orange does not attract flies/midges in the same way that the flourescent yellow does ?

[Pilot DAR]

Haha!

Two years ago I bought in Germany, a really nice hi vis winter jacket, Lots of useful pockets, very warm, and of course the lime green and reflective that European airport operators seem to like. The airports I frequent in Canada apparently could care less, in my experience.

I do like to wear it for my winter flying though, simply because both my planes are white, and if I end up in the snow somewhere, I would like to be visible myself (as well as warm).

I also wear it in my capacity as a volunteer firefighter, as (I presume) it meets the requirements for roadside visibility. The Chief says it's good enough for him.

The other night, I was flagging traffic for a roadside accident. There am I, with my super bright jacket, and super bright LED Lenser flashlight, and motorists were near running into me. After the call, one of our Captains came to me, and commented that several motorists complained that I was too difficult to see!

Therefore, I now refer to the super bright jacket as my "cloak of invisibility"...

[Halfbaked_Boy]

I've only ever seen three colours of high vis vest -

Yellow, orange and pink.

[turbroprop]

Hello BackPacker

It is worth looking at local regulations about the requirements for wearing hi-viz clothing at airports. If you meet a jobs worth that insists that everybody must wear hi-viz then point out why do passengers not wear hi-viz when walking to an aircraft. To me a good and comprehensive brief is more important for protecting people from hazards.

[riverrock83]

In the EU its "class based"

Vehicles at work - High visibility clothing (http://www.hse.gov.uk/workplacetransport/factsheets/clothing.htm)

Are there any standards which the clothing should meet?
HV clothing should be manufactured to a recognised standard. The new British Standard for high visibility warning clothing is BS EN 471. This is a harmonised European standard produced with the legal requirements for PPE in mind. Clothing which conforms to the standard is marked with a pictogram like this:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/workplacetransport/images/clothing.jpg

The first number (X) indicates the class of conspicuity, this depends on the minimum area of conspicuous materials that are incorporated into the clothing, with Class 3 being the best and Class 1 the lowest; the second number (Y) indicates the retroreflection performance with Class 2 being more visible than Class 1 when seen in headlights during darkness. The standard gives specifications for coveralls, jackets, waistcoats, tabards, trousers and harnesses.

From July 1995, new clothing must be 'CE' marked to show it meets the new European rules on the manufacture of PPE. Remember: the CE mark only means that the clothing meets the standard. It does not mean it can be used in all situations. HV clothing must be suitable for the actual conditions of use

[riverrock83]

I don't think there are approved colours as such. However you can get vests with reflective strips on them which might work, although these don't meet the Hi-Viz standard:
http://www.safetysupplies.co.uk/trolleyed/images/products/colourvest.jpg (http://www.safetysupplies.co.uk/trolleyed/23/index.htm)

[riverrock83]

I'm wrong: The approved colours are:
Fluorescent Yellow
Fluorescent Orange-Red
Fluorescent Red

All of which have Chromaticity Coordinates (whatever those are...)
http://chpt.co.uk/BS_EN_471-2003.pdf

Anything else aren't standard.

[riverrock83]

Backpacker - I'd probably ask your airfield what they mean by Hi-Viz jackets. If they need to meet a European Class then you're stuck with some sort of silly hat. However they may be happy with anything with a reflective stripe on them (lets ignore the fact you aren't doing it at night so they have no headlamps to reflect) so you can pick any colour you like (I'm impressed that some websites still call ones with black backgrounds Hi-vis jackets (http://www.kidshivis.co.uk/coloured-hi-vis-vests/66-black-coloured-hi-vis-vest.html) :ugh:)

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Hi-viz black gets my vote. It seems good enough for the Air Force's trainer Types.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Go dressed as an aeroplane. No chance of being run into then!:ugh:

[dirkdj]

At some airfields I see instructors and students, both dressed in bright hi-viz vests, flying in a french trainer type of aircraft, with the hi-viz colours reflecting all over the large plexiglass canopy. With the sun on the cockpit it must be difficult to see beyond the hi-viz glare.

[BackPacker]

Okay, thanks for the information and the links, people. I think I have enough to come up with a proposal or not.

Turboprop, Riverrock, this charity operates over 15 events annually, each on a different airfield. A mix of controlled and uncontrolled, and airfields with and without the hi-viz requirement. Between 25 and 125 sick and handicapped children per event, plus their family. We're trying to find a solution that covers all situations.

Obviously the high-viz is not the only safety measure we have. The passenger brief is standard, there's a strict limitation on who is allowed airside, we have dedicated people who know the airside dangers and they are the only ones bringing passengers to and from aircraft, we have extra fencing to separate airside with landside, and so on and so forth.

In fact our safety measures are such that we are essentially writing the rulebook. We don't have to negotiate with each field, we just follow our own rules as they typically are better suited, more consistent and more uniformly adhered to than the airfield rules. And deliver higher safety.

----------------------------------------------------------------

So, let the ridicule of the hi-viz vests begin. Dirkdj and Purple Pitot have already started. Bonus points for the first to post that picture of the guy in the Freddy Mercury-style day glo swimsuit (or what is it?)

(Although with a name like Purple Pitot I think you've just disqualified yourself from ridiculing high-viz vests...:E)

[turbroprop]

Hello BackPacker

I hope you find a practical solution to your Hi-Viz problem as it sounds like it is for a very worthwhile cause.

Please post how it goes.

[longer ron]

Some years ago just after we were made to wear the hi viz stuff...I was out on the line at an airfield 'somewhere in surrey' (without a hiviz vest on LOL)...I got called to the line hut to talk to ATC on the blower...They asked ''why you not wearing Hiviz ??''...I of course replied ''well you can obviously see me ok '' :) (from other side of rwy :))...

Closely followed by another 'chat' with the boss :ok:

[BackPacker]

I meant this one:

http://media.firebox.com/pic/p1991_column_grid_7.jpg

[Sir Herbert Gussett]

Have one with Red 'REFLEXITE' braces over shoulders. Very good :ok:

[Saab Dastard]

Unfortunately, that one failed the rear conspicuity test...

http://www.drinkstuff.com/productimg/25158_large.jpg

Does my bum look big in this, btw?

[abgd]

Unless the event is at night, and headlights (whether human or machine mounted) are being used, there's no point in having retroreflective strips. The idea of these is that they reflect light almost exactly back to where it came from so they show up very well if you're wearing a head-torch or driving a car with headlights, but not at all if it's a daytime event.

Blue and ultraviolet light have no brightness (if you're ever in a club, look (briefly) at an ultraviolet strip light. It will have colour (deep blue) but little or no brightness). It's impossible to make a bright blue jacket, which is why there aren't any. High-vis jackets are typically fluorescent - i.e. they take in blue light and let it out at lower frequencies in the spectrum e.g. red, yellow or green. This means that they can be brighter than a white surface, and the colours draw attention to the vests.

I can explain chromaticity co-ordinates, but they're unlikely to be useful unless you have access to a spectrophotometer or at the very least a chromameter and calibrated light source. As an aside, the most commonly used chromaticity co-ordinates were developed by the physicist Schrodinger. They're very counter-intuitive in part for the joy of it, and in part because they were designed around a mechanical calculator that couldn't deal with negative numbers. I can also discuss the neurophysiology and evolutionary reasons as to why blue has no brightness (unless you're a dolphin).*

Checking the British Standard or using hats sounds the best idea to me. I'm interested to hear that you're only meant to wear orange if you work on the railways, which I didn't know. I bought a few yellow fluorescent mesh jackets from Ebay and they were surprisingly cheap - I think I paid about £2 each. It's important not to wash them too often as the dyes wash out or are broken down quite easily.

*I spent several years sitting through presentations about what colours different fire-extinguishers should be in Australia, and how many colours there are in Russian versus Hungarian rainbows. This hasn't proved very useful to me in later life, so forgive me for showing off when the opportunity arises.

[Whopity]

If you covered a cushion with the material used in a typical high vis jacket you would not be allowed to sell it because it does not comply with the fire safety regulations. But its OK to wear it to improved safety! I wonder if there are exemption certificates for anyone prone to spontaneous combustion?

[turbroprop]

My company issues us with HI Viz Cold Weather clothing that meets all the British and EU standards. The colour of this clothing is orange, but there is a certain UK airport that insists we wear a yellow Hi Viz tabard over our clothing. Another mad one is MALMO. Many of the buildings are painted yellow and I have been pulled up for not wearing my yellow tabard whilst walking past these buildings. They have no answer when I say I have removed it so I can be seen. Also had fun at a hospital where they held a fire drill. Many of the staff whilst outside donned the hi-viz clothing, rightly so as they were near traffic etc. the manager organising the drill threw his teddy out of the cot because he insisted they remove the Hi-Viz so that people could see he was in charge. Although this is similar to BackPackers delema in this case all the staff knew he was in charge. During the de-brief they tried to point this out, but he was still sulking. The solution was for him to wear a specialy marked hat. He was happy with that idea until he saw what was written on the hat!

[42psi]

It can be that some airfields use differing colours of hi-vis to identify particular roles to assist in identifying in an emergency situation.

As you say you intend to be active at a number of place it might be tedious but best to simply contact them explaining your needs and asking their requirements, an e-mail bcc'd to each perhaps?

Might cause consternation if a small airfield suddenly had a dozen fire chiefs or Operations Staff running around one day :ooh:

In my experience the standard yellow tends to be the "normal" hi-vis with the orange/red used to easily identify those with a particular function/role in an emergency situation.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

From memory there is a specification which I think I have seen in CAP 168 (Airfields).

There is no such specification in CAP168.

Hi Viz yellow/green is the norm and there is a British Standard or similar for the colours etc. Many Airports now have part yellow, part orange jackets to denote the really important people airside.

Everyone wears hi viz these days. It dilutes the reason for having it when you turn up at an airshow and all the photographers are wearing them. Does it make them feel important or something?:ugh:

Always makes me laugh when I see pilots (Flying Instructors are the worst culprits) wearing hi viz to fly in. := Ever seen burnt skin with plastic stuck to it...... Not nice in a fire situation

[Piper.Classique]

Two pages? TWO PAGES? On hi-vis jackets? Words fail me. Suggest a sanity check here. OP, use whatever colour you like. Take it off before flight. Good grief.

[BackPacker]

Piper, come and visit one of our events once. There's one at Schiphol Airport (yes, the number four airport in Europe) where we have some 120 sick/handicapped children, their family and 200+ volunteers running around. About 100 of those wear hi-viz, either because they're pilots, or airside volunteers, or regular Schiphol employees with hi-viz jackets as part of their work clothing. Now try to pick out the one guy who is in charge, and is also wearing a hi-viz because of his airside duties.

The hi-viz is not just because of optical conspicuity by the way. The gate between landside and airside is manned and only two kinds of people are allowed to pass:
- People with airside authorization and a hi-viz jacket. Pilots, marshallers and such, mostly. At least people who know their way around aircraft.
- Passengers under the guidance of one such person. Passengers are not wearing hi-viz of course.
This means that if we see someone walking around without a hi-viz jacket, who is not accompanied by someone wearing one, we have an "issue". Most likely this is a passenger who walked (ran) away from his/her guardian. With children around that are as young as 6 years old physically, and maybe only 2 years old mentally, that "issue" is serious.
So the hi-viz is also used as a "badge of office" or whatever you want to call it. It allows me to glance around the apron and quickly see if everything is "In Ordnung".

Those 120 children also mean 120 VFR flights by the way. We essentially get our own runway (04/22), our own Tower frequency (which, on the day, is not called Schiphol Tower but Hoogvliegers Tower:)) and our own dedicated air traffic controller.

Now try to imagine the same event at Heathrow or Charles de Gaulle and you see my problem.

Chuffer, I think you're on to something with the yellow/orange blocked or striped vests. That would work just fine.

[Saab Dastard]

Two pages? TWO PAGES? On hi-vis jackets? Words fail me. Suggest a sanity check here. OP, use whatever colour you like. Take it off before flight. Good grief.

Be fair, some of the thread also covered mankinis. I'm not sure that "covered" is the right word...

SD

[Piper.Classique]

Backpacker, I do realise you will have a lot of people around. However, an escaping child will be just as obvious if those around it aren't imitating roadworkers. We had that many people at Le Bourget on International Women's day and the marshallers had hi-vis and wands. The pilots didn't. None of us. No-one walked into a prop.

[BackPacker]

True, but if I come up to the Schiphol people and tell them that nobody will be wearing hi-viz airside except the marshallers, it's not going to fly. Literally in this case.

The sad reality is that hi-viz is a requirement which cannot and will not be waived. So I've got to solve my problem within that constraint.

[Piper.Classique]

The sad reality is that hi-viz is a requirement which cannot and will not be waived. So I've got to solve my problem within that constraint

Fair enough. Give the bosses a red baseball cap, then.

[mad_jock]

Landed at an airport in single figures latitude middle of the night which was pitch black. On a crappy freight apron with only one bulb working.

Aircraft met by 15 locals all but 1 in a high viz.

Me wandering around in white shirt.

Out of the dark with no headlights working comes a huge local driving an old landy. Then proceeds to rip into none high viz wearing local.

Hell I think that sod is going to skin me with some fine or other for not wearing one.

Finishes shouting in the local lingo and sticks on a huge smile and says "Jambo Jambo Captain"

"Well Jambo to you to sir, I do aplogise for not having my hi-viz on I will just go and get it"

"No problem Captain we can see you whities at night, its us darkies that need hi-viz on especially if we don't brush our teeth and chew tobbacca like that bugger"

I just burst out laughing and the hi-viz stayed where it was for the next 4 months.