Navigation training, SW approaches

[Jonhunter]

Hi everyone,

Curiosity has finally got the better of me, I was wondering if someone could provide more information on the above notam?

Not meaning to intrude on anything secret, just curious as to what's going on, especially as its out over the oggin... Must be tricky to navigate over water, unless you're using GPS, VOR, etc, in which case, why not do it over land?

Thanks for your time.

Jon Hunter

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-01EB8A9956865747637639482336F5F8/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/SUP/NON_AIRAC/002-2013/EG_SUP_2013_002_en_2013-01-24.pdf

[Party Animal]

Jon,

I can't access the link you provided through my work computer so I'll just have to give you an educated guess. Although what was the 'navigator' empire of the RAF is pretty much in it's death throes, observer training for the RN is still very much alive. If you think about it, most of their flying is over the sea, trying to locate and land on a moving helipad.

Have a dig around the obvious websites for RN observer training, Culdrose etc. and it should give you a better insight. Of course, I could be totally wrong without reading the NOTAM, in which case - just ignore!

[Case One]

Can't access the link either, but I'd assume it's RN Observer training. Basic skills, DR navigation assisted by RADAR fixing. Maybe a bit of doppler too (or perhaps that's old hat). Livened up by some surface search: compiling and maintaining a surface picture, and/or tracking a specific contact. Perhaps the staff pilot's favourite - a probe or two to visually identify contacts. So, not strictly just navigation.

Only guessing.

[Tankertrashnav]

My next door neighbour is an observer instructor at Culdrose. Used to be RN - now he is a civvie, as the job, like so many, has been civilianised. If you seriously want to know, send me a PM and I'll ask him, as long as whatever you want to know is not sensitive/classified .

Must be tricky to navigate over water, unless you're using GPS, VOR, etc, in which case, why not do it over land?

GPS?, VOR? - we dreamt about having them! Still managed to find the USA/Canada/Gan etc just using sun/stars ;)

Incidentally the link doesnt work for me either.

[Tlam999]

The NOTAM you refer to probably (as the link doesn't work for me either) is a standard one covering the activities of 750NAS training student Observers.

Several of the profiles flown during the Observer training syllabus mean that occasionally the a/c cannot obey the rules of the air. e.g. Dead Reckoning navigation at a fixed FL in IMC when outside the limits of Culdrose/NQY's Radar coverage.

VOR and GPS are not routinely used by the students during their training, although the pilots and instructors do have access to them. Navigation by the student is achieved using a combination of dead reckoning, doppler equipment and radar. As a previous poster noted, such luxuries as GPS/VOR cannot be relied upon when looking for a floating helipad... which has a nasty habit of moving about the place. The mantra is "if you can do it with a radar, a chinagraph and a Dalton, then you can do it front-line with all the modern (GPS, LINK16, TACAN, ESM) gadgetry... but have something to fall back on if it goes t**s up".

[lj101]

Like this one?

48) Posted 30 Jan 2013 12:01 GMT Tick here to remove this NOTAM from the maps and emails
H0248/13: Exercises will take place

Q) EGTT/QWELW/IV/BO/W/000/120/5020N00630W112
NAVIGATION TRAINING SW APPROACHES. UP TO 4 KINGAIR ACFT WILL OPR WI
AREA AND UNDER CONDITIONS DETAILED IN AIP SUP 002/2013 (SOUTH WEST
APPROACHES). ACFT MAY BE UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH THE RULES OF THE AIR.
OPS CTC 01326 557267. 13-02-0080/AS4
LOWER: Surface
UPPER: FL120
FROM: 04 Feb 2013 10:00 GMT
TO: 08 Feb 2013 14:00 GMT
SCHEDULE: 04-07 1000-1230 AND 1400-1630, 08
0830-1400

[Jonhunter]

Thank you for all your replies. It never occurred to me that it might be (helicopter) observers trying to navigate to ships. In this case, would said observers under training be trying to find an actual ship, or just hit a certain lat/long? Or is it a more basic / fundamental level than that?

Lj101, yes that's the NOTAM. Thanks for that :ok:

For all that remain interested, the link was to SUP 002/2013.

If any of the students happen to be reading this, good luck! I find navigating over land tricky enough, never mind the sea!

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Jon.