Typhoons begin leaving Leuchars this year

[Ronald Reagan]

Just seen this posted on Fighter Control:-
Typhoon jets will depart Leuchars by end of year - Fife / Local / News / The Courier (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/typhoon-jets-will-depart-leuchars-by-end-of-year-1.66497)

Plus the post on Fighter Control with comments:-
The local paper today says . . . . • FighterControl • Military Aviation Forum (http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&p=461342#p461342)

[diginagain]

Just in time to make room for the The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers and Greys).

Regular Army Basing Plan (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136406/regular_army_basing_plan.pdf)

[NorthSouth]

So the Kirknewton super-barracks is officially dead - and gliding can continue :)

[NorthSouth]

Also...

1) only an Engineer Regiment at Kinloss - lots of practice at digging up runways?

2) Challenger tanks at Leuchars - resurrection of the old Tentsmuir firing range, with well-heeled golfers on the Old Course being issued with ear defenders?

Still, at least RAF ATC will have another Watchman to use for spares :)

NS

[diginagain]

The word on Arrse seems to be that a small Crab detachment will remain in order to keep the Tarmac strip available for Royal golf charters and the like.

(ISTR on on another thread on the subject, predicting that panzers would be making an appearance.)

[just another jocky]

Still, at least RAF ATC will have another Watchman to use for spares

Perhaps they could move it to Wittering.

[sitigeltfel]

resurrection of the old Tentsmuir firing range

A woodcutter I know had regular stoppages on his chainsaw from hitting shrapnel and bullets embedded in the the trees there.

[Climebear]

Also...

1) only an Engineer Regiment at Kinloss - lots of practice at digging up runways?

2) Challenger tanks at Leuchars - resurrection of the old Tentsmuir firing range, with well-heeled golfers on the Old Course being issued with ear defenders?

Still, at least RAF ATC will have another Watchman to use for spares :)

NS

The Scots DG will be loosing their armour under Army 2020 and converting to light cav (Jackals)

[Finningley Boy]

The word on Arrse seems to be that a small Crab detachment will remain in order to keep the Tarmac strip available for Royal golf charters and the like.

The runway, as is the one at Kinloss, are to be retained in active use primarily as a diversion for Lossiemouth. When you think about it, there isn't anywhere else, other than Civilian Airports, for Typhoons returning from an exercise somewhere north of the Moray Forth to go otherwise! Next stop would Linton-on-Ouse or Leeming. Also, the UAS and AEF will remain as far as seems to be the case.

Indeed, thinking about the rationale behind the SDSR and PR2 etc, I'm not sure if the first aim was to simply find a home for Troops returning from Germany or to close as many runways as possible in order to pay off the UK's debts.

On the latter point, I'd say the SDSR certainly went a runway, or two, too far!

Anyway the Army should feel quite happy at having an airfield in the back yard, especially in these air bridge reliant expeditionary days!!:ok:

FB:)

[BlindWingy]

Must have been a tough Leuchars vs Lossie decision...

Lossie not required as resident tornado aircraft going out of service...

Leuchars already has 2 typhoon squadrons, infrastructure set up and room to expand.

Lossie will need considerable, costly modifications for typhoon.

Leuchars needs nothing.

Maintaining a runway at Leuchars is essential.

Lossie doesn't need a runway.

Ding Ding! And the winner is.....Lossie!

That's going to be costly...

[dctyke]

So, when we are down to ONE air base in Scotland will we still have an Air Rank Scotland? Guess I already know the answer, jobs for the boys and Lean is only for the rest!

[Courtney Mil]

BlindWingy,

I don't think anyone can fault your logic. Madness, isn't it? My thought is that the local MP put up a good fight on the grounds that closing two Morayshire bases would have been catastrophic for the local economy.

It's good to know that basing decisions are taken for sound, operational reasons! :ugh:

[diginagain]

Could have opted for Dyce. Spare sheds on the East side. Crash & Smash onsite, along with snow-clearance security and Air Traffic. Plenty of precedents for joint civ/mil airfields elsewhere.

[chevvron]

Doesn't matter what anyone says, the Army always manage to cock up an airfield when they move in. Look at Abingdon; a fence built all round inside the peri track; Catterick, houses built on the edge of the runway.

[terveuren]

Courtney,

You hit the nail on the head. This is a political decision, operational considerations have taken a back seat in this case. Plus ca change some would argue!:(

[Courtney Mil]

You make a good point, Chevvron.

The Marines trashed the Chivenor main runway when they moved in too. I suspect that making the place as unsuitable as possible for air ops reduces the likelihood that the base could ever be returned to flying status and, therefore, Light Blue.

[sp6]

It will be interesting to see who rules with regard to Aircraft operations when the Army do move in. The ESUAS, AEF and the Flying Club (understandably) are low priority at the moment, but it would be prudent to promote them and actively use Leuchars for Divs and exercises as much as possible to stop any Army encroachment airside. SATCO will need to fight his corner and having as many aircraft movements as possible will help him.

On saying that, the (at the time very funny) toast by the AOC at last years BoB dining in night won't help future Army/Airforce co-operation....

"Ladies and Gentlemen I give you the ARMY....... because if they had not lost the Battle of France, we would not have WON the Battle of Britain!"

I guess future Dining in Nights will be a sea of red and black and crab jokes will predominate........

[Biggus]

Why is maintaining a runway at Leuchars "essential"???


For the golf traffic?

[OutlawPete]

BlindWingy,

I don't think anyone can fault your logic. Madness, isn't it? My thought is that the local MP put up a good fight on the grounds that closing two Morayshire bases would have been catastrophic for the local economy.

It's good to know that basing decisions are taken for sound, operational reasons!

One could offer an arguement that the decision was also based on operational reasons as well as political. Isn't access to low flying areas, ranges and overflying of less densely populated areas not also a consideration for maintaining Lossie for military use post-tonka?


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[Bismark]

Wasn't Lossie originally designated as the Joint F35 base? And recent army utterances in the papers seem to indicate that the option for Leuchars may not be taken up due to less troops for Scotland.

[Roadster280]

Doesn't matter what anyone says, the Army always manage to cock up an airfield when they move in. Look at Abingdon; a fence built all round inside the peri track; Catterick, houses built on the edge of the runway.

What ARE you talking about?

The RAF decides it no longer requires an airfield. The permanent camp and sheds could be used by an Army unit. A unit is identified and posted in. The airfield, remember, is no longer required by the RAF. In some cases, the Army makes use of the land, in others, it is simply fenced off.

Or are you suggesting that the MOD expend resources on maintaining runways, ATC and fire coverage for airfields that the RAF no longer require?

If a former RAF station were to be returned to flying status, in most cases, there would need to be a complete rebuild irrespective of current use. They have been out of flying use for decades. Examples:

Leconfield
Abingdon
Thorney Island
Waterbeach
Oakington
Swanton Morley

Some never had paved runways in the first place:

Grantham
South Cerney

Then there are those that DO retain the airfield, for RAF use:

Topcliffe
Dishforth

I would also remind you that the RAF is not immune to trashing its own former airfields. Where is the SLAM at RAF Honington? Next to the runway.

Then of course there are those that just get paid off to rack and ruin:

Hemswell
Watton
West Raynham
West Malling
Manby

Would you rather that the first group went the way of the last?

[ExAscoteer]

By Grantham did you mean Spitalgate?

Oh and BTW Swanton Morley never had hard runways.

[Wander00]

Aah, ATC gliding course at Swanton Morley (during the Cuban Missile Crisis) and Spitalgate became Prince Williaim of Gloucester Barracks, and my TA Reimental HQ and HQ Sponsored Units RCT (as it was then)

[Roadster280]

Both were well before my time, thanks for the correction.

My point is though that Chevvron was way off the mark in flaming the Army for the subsequent use of former RAF airfields.

I forgot another category. "Currently used RAF Stations left to rot".

Church Fenton
Scampton

[NorthSouth]

"Currently used RAF Stations left to rot".
Church Fenton
Scampton Surely only because no-one in MoD has got the sense/balls to just say "close them". Keeping whole airfields open just for a UAS or the Reds is madness. I'm amazed they haven't had the Public Accounts Committee on to them about this.
Yorks UAS should be at Leeds-Bradford. Talk to UGSAS about the value of operating out of a commercial airport.
NS

[si.]

It will be interesting to see who rules with regard to Aircraft operations
when the Army do move in


I recal when the Army marched into Catterick, the VGS which remained there was to retain control of the airfield, and Army operations were not to interfere with flying....

That is until their building program reduced the length of the shortest run to below the legal minimum, rendering the airfield useless. Thus requiring a type convertion, and a move to Topcliffe. :rolleyes:

[red zebra]

The reason for the ludicrous decision can be summed up in two words

Danny Alexander

:mad: ginger :mad::mad:

[Roland Pulfrew]

Talk to UGSAS about the value of operating out of a commercial airport.

I expect they would say its a complete pain in the @rse! And I wonder what the charges would be for YUAS to operate out of Leeds/Bradford, even if it is their spiritual home. Surely a better option would be Linton?

[Finningley Boy]

What ARE you talking about?

The RAF decides it no longer requires an airfield. The permanent camp and sheds could be used by an Army unit. A unit is identified and posted in. The airfield, remember, is no longer required by the RAF. In some cases, the Army makes use of the land, in others, it is simply fenced off.


Roadster,

The R.A.F. have not quite decided they no longer need Leuchars and Kinloss. They have been told to squeeze up. The airfields, as has been stated, will still be required. I should have thought that the Army would not be allowed to tinker with either if both are to continue as diversions for Lossiemouth.

FB:)

[Easy Street]

The reason for the ludicrous decision can be summed up in two words

Danny AlexanderThat argument would hold more weight if Leuchars wasn't in the constituency of Sir Menzies Campbell, a former Lib Dem leader and a man of great personal influence - I can't see that Danny Alexander would have done his long-term prospects* much good by making a direct intervention in the face of an elder statesman of his party...

I think a more likely reason is that the economy of Moray is highly dependent on its military units. Basing aircraft there demonstrates long-term commitment; army units are much easier to move and would have left question marks over the area, particularly if the Army started having difficulties finding training areas. Meanwhile, Fife can quite easily survive without a military presence.

* - his personal long-term prospects within the party. The long-term prospects of Lib Dems in government are not high on anyone's agenda!

[Roadster280]

Finningley Boy and Si -

I highly doubt that the local Army commander (who will be typically a Lt Col, rarely a Col) makes the decision as to where buildings go or don't go. He has an input, sure, but it is not his train set. He only gets to play with it.

The owner is Defence Estates. The Army may well put a request in to DE requesting new blocks in say, Marne Barracks, but it will not be the CO that decides where they go. DE will make the determination of where the blocks go, and the use of the land. It's a little disingenuous to blame the demise of an airfield on the Army. If it is in the wider Defence interest to move a lodger unit (say a VGS) 10 miles down the road, then that decision is made and promulgated. But it's not the CO of Marne Bks making it.

If the RAF need to retain the airfields in Scotland, then that will be one of the considerations in the alterations to the existing buildings to accommodate the new users.

[ExAscoteer]

Keeping whole airfields open just for a UAS or the Reds is madness.

Putting the Reds into Cranwell with the Dominies and Jetstreams was even greater madness since it directly impacted upon the training task.

The usual bean counter B/S; look at short term savings and not the downstream ramifications.

[Fox3Fox2FoxYou]

Ming Campbell has no influence anymore - dumped as leader after a brief spell. Voted against the uni fees despite the 3-line whip. Promised to refer the ginger jock for abuse of his cabinet position but didn't.
The RAF was keeping Leuchars until the treasury said no - Danny ******* Alexander is Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the local MP up north - as simple as that. It would be massively cheaper to keep Leuchars as is, put the army into Lossie and Kinloss while keeping the runway at either as a div. Leuchars provides QRA cover for most of the population centres in Scotland, Faslane and a nuke power station as well as providing overlap for Coningsby. It would make as much sense to move it all to Leeming, particularly with the independence vote next year.....:ugh: