new helicopter company

[r44hopeful]

Hello you lot, never posted before, never needed too, so much info on this site i didnt want to waist your time. My idea was to get my ppl and. cpl then open a company up doing r44 clippers to the tourist market but through research and getting back to why im doing this and all the things ive read, ive changed my mind. Ive had companies before where it becomes an extention of a hobbie or a desire.... im after money. Ive heard the jokes how do you make £1m....... start with two... and if it flys f**** or floats rent it.
My idea now is too start a company and hire pilots, im in it for the money and to be honest I dont want to be expensive taxi driver, a year on... will bore me, Im selling up in the uk, house,land,everything to open this, i cant be the only one who has thought of this. ive researched heli companies Dom Republic,( heli seychelles (and why they failed)),Bali air etc so eyes wide open, I cant be the only one who has thought of this. if were to be in the right place at the right time the place is confidential at this point, as this is key.I know the non asset base will be just as expensive as the set up cost but i can see the company growing to 4x r44 plus one twin for those who wont fly anything eles. Thoughts please. yes hire a pro consultant, good well trained mech, sales team, and then wait six months for the governments approval yes got all that, what eles?

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Going to make a cuppa, come back and watch the replies. Should be entertaining! :}

[r44hopeful]

yes i can imagine but all news is good news im throwing everything at this so i want to hear it all.

[r44hopeful]

not uk based, pointless, no sun no tourist and caa yes got that too.

[JB-123]

What eles?.....Learn to speak English would be a start!

[Gordy]

Hello you lot, never posted before

Ahh but you have, back in March of 08:

faa aoc cert
hi all im strugling to get info in here about getting an faa aoc anyone point me in the right direction tried all combo's of it in search but to no avail, dont let my tag full u ive moved on from that now

[Grenville Fortescue]

And what's with calling everyone "you lot"?

I have to agree with JB-123, "i didnt want to waist your time." Really?

There are so many holes in your proposition I wouldn't know where to start!

[Aucky]

Before this thread get's overrun with the incoming I'll make a serious suggestion - If you want to make any money, and reduce your personal exposure to risk, don't own the helicopters yourself! The bills get bigger than you might expect, and might well not be scheduled. Find local wealthy benefactors who are prepared to own, insure, and maintain the aircraft for their occasional enjoyment (at a loss), and lease them in an attractive rate, profiting from your additional margin and maintenance, if you can provide it.

[r44hopeful]

sorry, if my spelling was incorrect, i was looking for DONT do this for fleck sake because ..... and then a good reason.Have you researched this, ie the faa rules that a non U.S. resident cant own a company flying a faa flag, or that a i dont know the rules with owning a company not being a resident of that country, or if its based in another country what flight rules apply? I need help. This will be a mix of FAA and CAA and Easa not sure which door to open and how.

[r44hopeful]

sorry for" wasting" your time. I'll go it alone. and sorry for saying" you lot" it was a term of enderment. i will keep going with this. I thought i might get help with opening a new company, just advice, business im good at talking to pilots ... clearly im not, sorry if i offended anyone.

[r44hopeful]

and finally isnt it people like me who are willing to put everything at risk to open new companies who employ pilots like you, yet all i get is hassle? go figure.

[Gordy]

Maybe if you told us where and what the proposal is, we may be able to help. Your original synopsis is too vague, it could refer to anywhere in the world.

[Grenville Fortescue]

Gordy, the gentleman is reluctant to divulge his project location because he believes he has divined a location which has hitherto remained untapped for helicopter charter exploitation.

His plan is to offer tourist flights using a float equipped R44 somewhere in the Caribbean - that's what I can determine from the original post. But, there are so many questions which he seems not to have thought about that it beggars belief.

Looks like he could use plenty of professional support.

[r44hopeful]

wow a positive response, but i think i'll take this somewhere eles, you all moan about bosses and conditions you make me laf. if i werent for people like me where is the future for young pilots?

[nomorehelosforme]

Shame, use of the English language has not improved! Try spell check before clicking submit might help!

[Aucky]

if i werent for people like me where is the future for young pilots?
With respect, it's with people who are a good few years ahead of you, with operational businesses, who probably understood a little more about what is required prior to starting their helicopter company. The response you get is to be expected, because your not the first, and wont be the last to post something very similar to your opening post today. Sadly it oozes naivety, which means readers automatically assume that the likelihood of the their input having any value long term is very slim, so many won't bother.
I cant be the only one who has thought of this
Precisely, you are not the first to think of this, most people have at some point fantasised about the possibility of having a little operation in the sun, and the figures can be made to seem appealing, initially, but most come to the conclusion that actually it's more hassle than it's worth, will take a huge amount of effort, a lot of experience and complete dedication, and for very little margin. It is of course doable, but you have a long road, and lots of relatively basic research to do before you will get any useful responses.
This will be a mix of FAA and CAA and Easa not sure which door to open and how. This is what I mean, things you should establish with the local authority in confidence before asking here, people cannot help when you're going to be secretive over the location. It will depend largely on which overseas territory the Islands(?) are governed by etc. You may have a choice in some instances if the territory in near the US but a foreign overseas territory, and there is a clear benefit to accepting FAA regs, such as St Maarten, BVI etc. You should start by establishing this from somebody within the local government... There is a lot that you need to establish before you will be anywhere near becoming the white knight (that you seem to think of yourself as) that is going to help all lowtime R44 pilots. I get your point. It's important that businesses continue to develop, for the industry, but it's probably worth doing a little more work in the industry, as a pilot perhaps, to better understand it before selling up to start a business.

[md 600 driver]

R44
Sorry I can't help ,never had a r44 or done charter but I do wish you luck and hope you make good profits and have a nice life

If i was younger My idea of heaven would be sitting on the end of a pier taking flights in the sun

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Aucky, you are risking bringing my evening's entertainment to a close! :(

Henceforth let him be known as - "Aucky the Samaritan" :E

r44hopeful, try listening to what Aucky has said, including his earlier post about cost savings through client purchased aircraft.

Edited to add: MD600, why not try Blackpool!

[Thomas coupling]

Has he gone?

[r44hopeful]

no still here im just going to give u a better response, thankfully im getting good feed back now back in 5

[JB-123]

Has he gone?

I thought that the wi fi might be down in the Lagos Internet cafe!!

[nomorehelosforme]

Heaven help anyone else on here that starts a thread with spelling mistakes, people from Lagos might be allowed one!

[r44hopeful]

aucky, you give lots of good advice, thanks, i do think if i give the venue away ill lose my usp. so let me keep working on this, hopefully i will be able to give "one of you lot" (kidding) :cool: a job one day. I doubt i will be a cpl now i will just like to open up a company and make some money, and to the person who says put it as a tax right off against someone richer than i, no i want a P/L and balance sheet to be happy with.to the others saying you have a lot to learn... well thats why im here, yet you didnt tell me much i didnt already know, easy to sit on the side lines, im stepping up and putting my life savings into this so hey ho

[ShyTorque]

R44, I've been flying helicopters for a living since the late 1970s. The one piece of advice I'd offer? Don't put all your life savings into anything to do with the helicopter business because you are likely to end up with nothing.

[r44hopeful]

wow........ in one night you have all taught me alot, dispite my efforts, and my dreams you win, im going to take my money eles where.The very people who i thought would be helpful..... im done, your right more money to be made elese where. good luck to you all.:ugh: o and sorry if ive mis spelt anything, like thats important!

[Gemini Twin]

Please let him be gone!

[ShyTorque]

Good luck, R44. My advice was well meant and the best I could offer. You're almost certain to lose your money if you try to begin a helicopter company with no knowledge of even how to fly one. Many very experienced people have tried and lost the lot.

[pilot and apprentice]

It's your money and it's your life.....

The industry is littered with pilots who believed that if only they owned the machine they would fix all the wrongs of the industry and get rich doing it. There were winners and losers. To decide to do this without actually working in the industry...let's just say it is very bold.

The regulations are onerous, the costs are high, and the margins are generally low. If hearing the truth is destroying your 'dream', I can only say better now than later.

If you thought that you would get a bullet-proof business plan and all the trade secrets from a quickie post on PPRuNe, then :eek: !!!

[Grenville Fortescue]

r44 - Helicopters aside, have you ever had any experience in managing/starting any kind of business?

Have you heard of something called a business plan or even a feasibility study?

Do you know what they are and what they do?

Do you know that if they are good enough you wouldn't even need to spend all your money?

Thought not! :cool:

But, as has been said, one wastes ones breath.

[Thomas coupling]

He's definitely gone now - surely. Shy - shame on you, stop encouraging the idiot.:yuk:

[md 600 driver]

once a bully !!!

[ShyTorque]

He's definitely gone now - surely. Shy - shame on you, stop encouraging the idiot.

I've got kids of my own, long flown the nest now. Just because they had big ideas, albeit sometimes unrealistic, I never saw reason to belittle them.

[Thomas coupling]

whats that got to do with the bloke who was here a while back>? Mad as a fish. He was smoking something for sure........................

[ShyTorque]

Probably a kipper.

[Thomas coupling]

:D:D:D Thats more like old ShyTQ

[choppertop]

Grenville Fortescue -- a business plan/feasibility study isn't much use in the tropics. Well, you could turn it into a sun hat perhaps.

[topendtorque]

hopeful,

I'll give just a few tips having been in the establishing of new and successful helicopter tourist operations business's three times in the past.



First you need something to look at in a manner that can't be seen by other means.



Properly plan your noise management otherwise ground borne touros and residents will ground you just like in Sydney. Don't allow pilot to whop the blades. (The new blade R44's still have a noisy exhaust, always put it downwind of the people you might upset)



If you have the venue, secure it against opposition with full rights to the operation via a legal document.



You will need a venue that brings in around 250,000 visitors a year and plan on only getting 2 to 3% into your machines.(that will give a tidy income)



Your average loading will be 2.1 per flight so price accordingly. (demanding a full load each time will only lose work).



You average passenger will be the hard pressed family type person, not the upper market unless you are taking in a service to high roller clients. (Having said that high rollers like wealthy casino patrons usually couldn't give a stuff about helicopters)



Always have well planned flight routes with as many as possible Emergency Landing sites as possible and train your pilots to fly via in reach of them.



Plan you flights so that you will be operating the aircraft at just below the power jet opening in the carburetor, still quite fast and amazingly more economical and easier on the machine.



Take off should always be in ground effect, slow and confident building for teh passengers.



Don't sell you soul to the venue ownership as that will cost too much of your profit, freebies or surveys, that sort of thing.



Don't sell your soul to those ticket sellers on your behalf. If they want to get a % they have to sell it on top of your price, don't allow anyone to charge too high a % doing that as bad word spreads quickly and will destroy you.



WRT the last comment, do not under any circumstances do low level or untoward flying especially steep turns, as the tourist grapevine and its ability to destroy your operation is exceptionally efficient, swift and merciless.(Always have a spare pilot up your sleeve if someone needs quickly moving on



Treat you passengers equally as friends, but respectfully and firmly., that means passenger loading via an established spreadsheet for your office staff so that overloading or excessive C of G movement is never an issue.



After that do a cash flow and don't underestimate start up costs.



If you do it right you will get repeat clients, our favorite was the late Rumpole -Of the Bailey, a great gentleman.

all the best tet.

[Ready2Fly]

tet

one of the best posts i have seen here on pprune. top notch analysis from a bunch of experience. :ok:

[Grenville Fortescue]

Originally Posted by choppertop
Grenville Fortescue -- a business plan/feasibility study isn't much use in the tropics. Well, you could turn it into a sun hat perhaps.

Even in the tropics they have banks and those banks still offer loans and business services to those presenting feasible business plans, ask First Caribbean if you're not sure!

I'm not begrudging the lad his dream for one moment - but far better he appreciate some of the realities he might face (if ever he pursues this) and far better he try and learn some of those realities here on an innocuous forum rather than sitting opposite a bank manager, client or prospective business partner.

[choppertop]

Tet and Grenville... lest we forget the most important thing of all:

* Get cosy with those in power