I know the Jaguar had the thrust of an asthmatic leafblower

[NutLoose]

But I didn't realise it was this bad :p

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/RAF-royal-air-force-GLIDER-KIT-christmas-gift-aeroplane-NEW-JAGUAR-toy-/00/s/NzQ3WDU1MA==/$T2eC16Z,!zUE9s38+EOGBQup6LI,nw~~60_58.GIF


RAF royal air force GLIDER KIT christmas gift aeroplane NEW **JAGUAR** toy | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAF-royal-air-force-GLIDER-KIT-christmas-gift-aeroplane-NEW-JAGUAR-toy-/400353257495?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item5d36e9e817)

Lol

[newt]

This should be interesting..........Not!!:D

[Wensleydale]

There were trials of using the Jaguar with the Sea Harrier ski-jump. The Jaguar was put on top of the ramp and then run down........

[Dengue_Dude]

Probably not quite enough 'juice' to make a reasonable MRD, no danger of melting the tarmac with that eh?

[keesje]

Imagine a european, affordable, stealthy'ish Jaguar would be for sale now, it would be king..

RAF Jaguar LOW pass VERY LOUD - YouTube

[Courtney Mil]

It took some getting off the ground fully loaded, but it packed a hell of a punch for suck a low-cost airframe. The guys that flew flew it had to be good - especially in the early days. Hats off.

[SirToppamHat]

Followed onto the next You Tube Video and found the video below. I hadn't seen a rough strip t/o before. Can't imagine anyone being allowed to these days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqNVIr92zDY&feature=player_embedded

[Wholigan]

SirToppam - we had to prove that rough field performance on every Maxeval and Taceval and it really wasn't that much of a fuss.

Quite right, it wasn't the most powerful aircraft we've ever owned, but it had enough power and enough fuel to cruise en route at 450 - 480 knots and attack at 540 knots (and perhaps faster) over a pretty respectable range with a respectable payload. And yes, the Yanks on Flag were usually pretty impressed in my experience.

And anyway, it was bloody good fun, and surely that's what counts most! :ok:;)

[Compass Call]

Those low level Jaguars look suspiciously like Omani Jags beating up the local camel spiders:E

[Alber Ratman]

Those Omani Jaguars are still beating up Camel Spiders...:ok:

Indians still flying theirs...:E

[ex-fast-jets]

You are the only one I know who can comment with authority on the Jag's gliding characteristics. :E

Unusual for you to hide your knowledge/expert opinion..................

[Lightning Mate]

You are the only one I know who can comment with authority on the Jag's gliding
characteristics.

So can I....

[ORAC]

What do you do if you lose an engine on a Jag? - Shut down the second to reduce the drag..... :p

Why does the Jag have two engines? - If one fails the other is there to carry it to the scene of the accident..... :p

[Lightning Mate]

Flown it have you ORAC?

[Pure Pursuit]

Oh LM,

is that a bite..? :{ :E

[ORAC]

:}:} Bite!!!

Just controlled and shot it down a lot.....

I was at Colt in 75/76 though. Those long hot - quiet - summer days when the Jags couldn't fly when the temp went over 80F....

[Navaleye]

Some say that it only took off thanks to the curvature of the Earth...

[CoffmanStarter]

Nutty ... was it you that reminded me that the following pic was of a Jag with the panels off :E

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/images-9.jpg

[noprobs]

You are the only one I know who can comment with authority on the Jag's gliding characteristics.

After many years of flying single-engined aircraft, my conversion to the Jaguar brought new experiences. On Convex 1, I had 2 throttles to play with. On Convex 2, the QFI deliberately shut down 1 of the 2 engines for a while. On Convex 3, we somehow managed to stop both engines at about 35000ft, necessitating a glide down to maximum relight altitude, in freezing clouds. The relights went as advertised, but the exercise progression did leave me wondering what was to come in Convex 4, the first solo.
:confused:

[keesje]

I can't see a Typhoon, F4 or F3 doing those rough strips.

[Rhino power]

I can't see a Typhoon, F4 or F3 doing those rough strips

They were not designed to were they? The jag meanwhile, was.

-RP

[Mach Two]

Well said, RP.

[Alber Ratman]

Jaguar, Best Aircrew and Groundcrew... :ok:

[Bob Viking]

Al.
I second that.
BV

[Dengue_Dude]

Aha . . . I understood the rough field performance was about the particularly large bumps would result in flight, ergo the actual curvature of the earth requirement was superseded . . .

In fairness, the closest I got to them was looking in my green TV on the Tow Line.

I was told it could drop a bomb in a bucket, but being an ex-intelligence officer, I was acquainted with the fact the Warsaw Pact were unlikely to attack with massed formations of buckets!

[Bob Viking]

Has anyone ever seen a cost analysis of how much it cost to put a bomb on target by a Jaguar against its contemporaries? Everyone is well aware that the Jag didn't have the largest payload but it was cheap as chips to operate. The Tornado, by comparison, had a larger payload but was less serviceable and cost more. I wonder how it would come out of such a study?
BV

[cuefaye]

Bob,

Any cost analysis comparison of 'putting a bomb on target' would have to take account of payload/range, night/bad wx capability, ECM measures, weapon variety/employability, number of eyes. On those counts alone, Jaguar would lose. But between 75-82, Jaguar filled a gap.

[Courtney Mil]

Gap or no gap, detailed cost analysis or not, I don't think anyone could reasonably deny that the Jag gave us a bloody good jet and capability. Including a great big bright one! In the main, bloody good chaps too. Of course I would never have told them that at the time. :cool:

[Alber Ratman]

One pair of eyes was always better than two pairs of eyes stuck on the ground because their flick knife was having a sulk.. Only kidding of course..:E

[newt]

Well I'm back from my hols now Bomber and ready for action. I knew this would end up another Jaguar bashing thread!!

Some gap cuefaye! Eight squadrons and an OCU to fill it! I wonder what was missing?

Now where is that bottle of the good stuff?

[A2QFI]

I was lucky(?) enough to fly the SOAF/RAFO Jaguars with the upgraded Adour which certainly helped the performance. At a time when there was some sabre rattling going on between Oman and UAE we were tasked to fly Jaguars along the border and show them what was what! As it was a matter of some urgency the first aircraft was fitted with 2 tanks and 4 x 1000 lb bombs and tried to take off from Thumrait in the early afternoon. Elevation 1570 ft, temp +47C. ISTR that the ODM didn't run to those temperatures, at that time. Anyway, some hero gave it a go and it got airborne but the reheat jet wake was still on the ground for about 2 miles off the end of the 13,000 ft runway.

[Alber Ratman]

A French Tornado aka AFVG .. I'll get my coat.:E

The Jag groundcrew reunions are mighty fine events..:ok:

[NutLoose]

Didn't think 20 Sqn had ever got a groundcrew reunion off the ground and unaware of a 14 Sqn one either.

[Alber Ratman]

The ex Colt Sqns certainly do.. Look up Jaguar Reunions on FB..:ok:

Fastest take off speeds must be the Canopeners at Tuscon. Forced to launch with a large tail wind component by the yanks, scary ground speeds and a lesson about rubber that wasn't forgotten.

[AR1]

But between 75-82, Jaguar filled a gap.

The Fulda gap IIRC!

[Bob Viking]

I remember it well. One of our Kiwi guys with a rotate speed of about 192-5 knots got no response when he pulled the stick back. The abort required a few new tyres and a clean pair of underpants!
We did enjoy the afternoons off when the tailwinds got too strong. Tucson is a terrible place to be with spare time and rates to spend.
BV:ok:

[Bob Viking]

We could work a couple of examples.
Let's say for arguments sake you flew a hi-lo-hi profile to an AI target 200 miles from home base (in range of Jag/Harrier/Tornado) in VFR.
For the first example let's say you need 8 x 1000lb bombs. Whilst the Jag could carry 8 x 1000lb bombs it wouldn't be able to carry much fuel! With ECM fit you would need 4 Jaguars to carry that many bombs. How many Harriers/Tornados would you need?
Or a slightly more modern scenario might call for PGMs. This is where, I fear the Jag may come off worst due to the limitations of self-desig for LGBs. So let's say 4 PW3s are needed. You'd now need five Jags (one with a pod and four bomb trucks).
EPW2 (or PW4 if the clearance had happened before out of service date) would negate the need for a pod but the range would still limit the jet to 1 bomb each (with two drop tanks and ECM/Chaff).
Whilst Harrier/Tornado could utilise a smaller formation to carry the necessary bombs I wonder how they would do on the cost front.
Clearly Typhoon is a different question but let's just keep it to the Cold War classics shall we?!
I don't know the answers to these questions, and I suspect no-one really does, although maybe the cheapness of the Jag contributed to its' longevity?
BV:confused:

[A2QFI]

The flyaway ex-Warton price of an export Jaguar was £7 million in 1977, I saw the export invoice we had to show customs to get the VAT exemption!

[Bigpants]

At the risk of thread creep the most effective combo for delivering bombs back then would have been the trials Buccaneer with the GR1 kit in it....

Then MOD got annoyed with chaps for saying why not just convert all... And we had to stop talking about it.

[Courtney Mil]

BV, they might be slightly simplistic examples from the weapons employment perspective as you need to put number of aircraft into your equation. In other words, you may be able to do it with 2 Typhoons, but you might not want to put all yer eggs in two baskets, if you see what I mean.

Your cost calculations also need to include how much it cost you train your pilots/crews (including shillings per flying hour), the cost of attrition, etc, etc.

I'm not even trying to calculate the true cost and I'm not saying your examples are wrong, just that I think it would be very difficult to work it out perfectly.

[Alber Ratman]

Wasn't Ray, was it Bob?
He had an interesting last Jag trip as well I do believe, Sooties and DF's had problems with an electrical generation snag on his stead all that day and one of the sooties in jest said prior to Ray walking "That jet has been a complete b****, I hope it burns". Unfortunately for Ray, alternator played up on the threshold, then decided to go bang, catching fire in the process. Fire crews put the blaze out quickly without major damage to the aircraft. Ray however, having jumped out of the aircraft in the middle of a dark airfield (NVG sortie), broke his ankles on landing..

[oldmansquipper]

Ahhh yes - the mighty Jaguar.:ok:

Great aircraft, great people!

I recall Air Tragic at LBH used to call the Well border post to make sure the traffic lights on the Venlo-Njimegen road were set at Red. It was so our Jags could take off to the West without worrying about high sided vehicles crossing their path on "climb out". (Allegedly)

II(AC) Sqn - (There were other Jaguar Squadrons, I believe, but they were clearly of no consequence) - has regular all rank reunions and there are several Jagcentric FB pages. Links to most of them can be found via the `overarching` (A 90s staff work buzzword for you youngsters) web site at:

II(AC) Association Index Page (http://www.twosqnassoc.co.uk/)

and, if you would like to read of the premier Jag unit between 76 to 79 try:

ShineyTwoJag (http://www.twosqnassoc.co.uk/pages/Jag/Jag.htm)

[ex-fast-jets]

II(AC) Sqn?????????????

I think I have heard of them.

Were they the ones that formed after 1(F) Sqn??????????????

[Bus14]

1(F) Sqn ????

I think I've heard of them

Were they the ones flying balloons when 3(F) were flying aeroplanes? Tertius Primus Erit, and all that.

Thread creep, I know, but as one of the few who flew both Harrier and Jaguar, maybe I'm allowed.

[NutLoose]

I suppose going from hovering in a Harrier to a Jaguar was very similar...

2 Sqn Jags? Wasn't that the place where the armourers didn't have a lot to do?



.

[cuefaye]

CMil

What a clever chap

[blimey]

but as one of the few who flew both Harrier and Jaguar

Ditto. In one, the noise was all from the engine(s?); in the other, all from the aircon. What I wouldn't give to strap my arse into either for the afternoon.......
especially a light GR3 on a nice cold winter's day :)

[ex-fast-jets]

but as one of the few who flew both Harrier and Jaguar

There must have been more than "just a few" of us!

I, too, would love to fly either again!

especially a light GR3 on a nice cold winter's day

..........at the end of an airtest - clean wing - just burning off fuel to check the lights - a CTO, steep climb, overbank to downwind, to a max decel hover.......

But no more........ :{

[Alber Ratman]

Blimey,

That would apply to both GR3s...:E One would have some nice avionics mind, the other was stone age..

Worked on both too mind, nasty heat shields in the canoe tells you which one was my least favourite.

[Bob Viking]

Not Ray. It was RCS. I do remember Ray's hurdling event though. Apparently he nearly got run over by the ambulance since the airfield was 'Bruno' at the time.
BV:eek:

[cuefaye]

But who flew Harrier, Jaguar , and Tornado - on full tours? Not a lot

[JMP6]

I'm smiling and thinking that whoever decided to send us to DM is a genius.

[Roadster280]

I(F), II(AC) and 3(F) Sqns, weren't they in the Army, long before anybody thought of having an air force at all?

[Alber Ratman]

Thanks Bob, It's amazing what the Kiwis got up to... RCS was the last producer of a CAT 3 to a Jag when he flew the Boss's kite through a flock of gulls 4 weeks before Colt closed. The Head Up video of a dozen + gulls realising that 14 tonnes of tactical bomber was about to spoil their day was different. I ended up as liasion with RSS to get it fixed before a road move would have been the order of the day.

[oldmansquipper]

...Continuous operational service? ;)

[oldmansquipper]

Yes - The first 3 RFC squadrons - 1912.

I was once sat next to a Sapper at a "Joint dining in" in an RAF Mess when the port was winging its way towards me. Said Sapper placed the decanter firmly on the table & slid it to me. :eek:

When asked why he had broken with the tradition in "our" mess - he very pointedly reminded all that would listen of the events in 1912 when the Engineers formed the first 3 RFC squadrons

Fair enough, I guess! :D

[Alber Ratman]

Wrong Oldmansquipper..

2 doesn't hold the record of Continious service.. Yet..

No 6 Sqn RFC and RAF . 31 Jan 1914 - 31 May 2007 = 93 years 4 months.
No 2 Sqn RAF.............. 1 Feb 1920 - 31 Jan 2013 = 93 years.:E

[oldmansquipper]

RAF - 2 Squadron (http://www.raf.mod.uk/organisation/2squadron.cfm)

[Roadster280]

Oldmansquipper - Indeed.

The RE gave birth to several new fangled inventions in the Army.

Speaking as a Scaley, my own Corps being one of them. Our mess kit and lanyard habits being all but identical. Not to mention the port.

[sp6]

I've been quietly waiting for someone else to post this, but as we are on page 3 and still no appearance here goes,

(as told to me by a Tornado Jengo in the '90s)

"flying a Jaguar is a bit like having a w@@k,

It is quite good fun, but you don't tell your friends about it........."


Cheers!

[cuefaye]

Whilst a Tornado JEngO would know all about w&nking, what would he know about flying a Jag?

[sp6]

Probably nothing, but it is quite funny. You can substitute jag for tutor, Voyager etc.... As you see fit!

[Alber Ratman]

What does a Tonka JEngO know about anything?

[salad-dodger]

What does a JEngO know about anything?

[Alber Ratman]

Depends what that JEngO was doing beforehand.. Knew the odd JEngO who were great, had been Jaguar engineers before they survived the Cranwell lobotomy. :ok: