Sorry - IMC again

[85mel]

Hi

My son, just got his PPL(A) as a new EASA license. His flight instructor has told him that you absolutely cannot get an IMC in this situation, only that you can still add one to an old style license. The CAA don't seem to have a clue (I phoned and asked). They pointed me to CAP 804, Part 5E page1 but it doesnt seem to answer the question either.

So, if you have a new EASA license, can you get an IMC. If so, where does the documentation to say so exist?

I suspect we covered this before here but I cannot find the thread.

Thanks

[Johnm]

Tell the CAA he can have an IR(R) as long as he gets I before 2014 this is consistent with the policy for JAR licences and the logiCis irrefutable.

[packo1848]

PPL/IR Europe - The Future of the IMCR - IR(R) (May 2012) (http://www.pplir.org/getting-the-rating/629-the-future-of-the-imcr-ir-r)

Hope this helps, seems its possible until 5th April 2014.

[85mel]

Johnm - CAA, logic, hmmm!

Packo1848 - that's an interesting link. What do they base their opinion on?

[packo1848]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/Revised%20Statement%20UK%20IMC%20RATING%20May%202012%20_v3.p df

Thats probably more helpful being direct from the CAA, there are links on the previous website which eventually lead you to it.

[85mel]

According to said instructor, this doesn't actually say you can add an IMC or IR(R) to an existing EASA license, only that if you have a old style license and get an IMC you will get an EASA license with the IMC as IR(R) on it. Instructor thinks that if you already have an EASA license you can't add an IMC.. confusing or what?

[MrAverage]

85mel

The instructor's advise was correct some weeks ago but not now. It is definitely now possible to add an IR(R) - although not an IMC - to an EASA licence. We're doing more than one at the moment.

[85mel]

Mr AVeraqe - thanks - evidence please... sorry to be so annoying but obviously we need to know what's possible before starting....

[MrAverage]

Ah. That was in an official doc back in October or November last year. Unfortunately, since there have been so many docs of so many different types over the last few months it might take me a few days to work out where I saw it.

Unless one of the gurus can help?

[riverrock83]

See this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/500076-imc-2.html

Beagle got a response from the CAA saying that it is implicit that you can, and that they would put together another document which makes it more clear. I haven't seen that document... See the thread - but I didn't want to take his word for it (hence I had asked for the document). See his response below.

riverrock83, I'm soooooooo very sorry that my free advice and licensing clarification has not been to your total satisfaction.....:rolleyes:

Anyway, wb9999 et al., fresh from the CAA:

An IMCR first obtained prior to 8th April 2014 can be added in the form of an EASA Instrument Rating with restrictions (IR(R)) to a UK-issued Part-FCL licence at any time in the future, including after 8th April 2014. This is in accordance with Article 4 of Regulation 1178/2011

It is only IMCRs first obtained from 8th April 2014 onwards that cannot be added to Part-FCL licences as to do so would not be the preservation of a privilege obtained before the aircrew regulation became mandatory (in this particular aspect).

It is implicit in the CAP 804 text that the IR(R) can be added to a Part-FCL licence issued after 17 September as Part-FCL licences were not issued before that date.

The CAA has also agreed to amend the relevant text in the next amendment to CAP 804 to make this completely clear.

cessna24, you asked:


My IMC lapsed in June this year. How long have I got to renew it before I loose it for good?

As you will hopefully have deduced from the CAA's response and from CAP 804, if you ever held IMCR privileges before 8 Apr 2014, even if they lapsed years ago you will still be able to renew them on a Part-FCL licence issued (or upon conversion) at any time in the future. So if they lapsed 20 years ago and you waited until 2020 to renew them, you would simply follow the same renewal process as outlined in CAP 804.

However, to exercise IMCR privileges on an EASA aeroplane after 8 Apr 2014, you will need to have converted a JAR-FCL licence (or UK non-JAR-FCL licence) to a Part-FCL licence which includes the new term IR (Restricted).

[kesikun]

Sent in my IMC application in Nov 2012 - I had a JAA PPL(A) issued May 2012

Phone call from CAA telling me that I need to convert my JAA to EASA before they can add the rating.

Duly sent of an conversion form and a few weeks ago I received my nice new blue EASA license with IR(R) in it ...

No troubles or worries .. only painful part was it all cost me £173 !

[85mel]

Has anyone seen an official document confirming that people with a new EASA license can get an IMC/IR(R) as long as before spring 2014?
Thanks

[BEagle]

See CAP 804 Part 1 Section 5 Part E Page 1 dated 30 Jan 2013:

An IMCR first obtained prior to 8th April 2014 can be added in the form of an EASA Instrument Rating with restrictions (IR(R)) to a UK-issued Part-FCL licence at any time in the future, including after 8th April 2014. IMCRs first obtained after 8th April 2014 cannot be added to Part-FCL licences. IMCRs obtained after 8th April 2014 may continue to be added to UK national (non-Part-FCL) licences only.

This is the revised wording we at AOPA UK asked them to include.

[85mel]

BEagle

That sounds what we needed - have passed it on to our club to see if they agree!!!! Thanks for your help.

[BEagle]

....have passed it on to our club to see if they agree....

What else do they want, for heaven's sake? An illuminated manuscript signed in blood?

[85mel]

I think they just want to check it our themselves... the CAA haven't exactly been forthcoming...