SAS recruitment [Archive]

SK-pilot

9th Feb 2013, 00:27

SAS do not expect many (probably none) of the previously laid off pilots to apply. The ones that wanted to return (some hundred) have already been re-hired, and the very few remaining have been captains with other airlines for the last 10-12 years, and are probably not very interested in starting at the bottom again. But due to legislations and agreements, SAS has to ask the laid off ones one last time before they can start new-hires. This is the last round where laid off pilots will get an offer.

Regarding Etihad; this is partially true: There are no limit in the number of pilots Etihad need, but appr 250-300 pilots from SAS have shown interest in the Etihad deal. SAS says it can accept max 50 pilots to leave for Etihad during 2013. Etihad would like to have everyone.

In addition there are appr 60 pilots who managed to apply for early retirement before this option closed down as a part of the 19th nov "crisis agreement". So a total of 110 pilots will leave SAS during 2013, in addition to our normal retirements.

The new agreements will reduce this number a bit though, but 40 new hires during 2013 is a very conservative number - it will probably double. I have no dates, but I expect that it will take one more month or so before SAS can conclude that all laid off pilots have denied their last offer of re-employment, and can start hiring external pilots again.

Ramrise

9th Feb 2013, 18:42

Evening,

Some of the pilots laid-off in 2003 will return, not very many, maybe between 10 and 20?? That would be my guess.....

There is no doubt that the company is very eager to get through the 2003 pilots so that we can start to hire off the street. We just have to offer the last interested 2003 pilots a job and then the first newhires will probably be interviewed. Sometime this year I think.

The previously mentioned number of 110 or so of retirements this year corresponds to what I have heard. That means that we will have to hire this year, there is no doubt about it. Unless of course we reduce flying hours because of the cost of fuel, terror or some other unforeseen happenings.

Another exciting year in aviation awaits us I am sure,

Regards,

Ramrise

truckflyer

9th Feb 2013, 19:23

But if someone has a safe job, will they want to join SAS?

Isn't that the same reason many wants to leave SAS, as many feel it is a sinking ship?

That 300 SK pilots wants to leave, does not give a very good impression of the companies long term stability!

Also, for any new hires, are they willing to stick around for so many years, without a chance of LHS upgrade for maybe 10 - 20 years?

I mean for me it is a very sad situation SAS are in, as it used to be the company anybody from Scandinavia wanted to work for, not it seems people are trying to escape them!

A bit like the Titanic! I hope I am wrong.

SK-pilot

9th Feb 2013, 20:06

Well - I have given my interest for Etihad - just in case... I am though almost 100% sure I will not take it. Showing interest is quite far from "wanting to leave"...!

And to the future; Neither me nor you know what it will bring, and I have no idea where you get the 10-20 years from. It may as well be Norwegian og Air Berlin that goes belly up. Everyone should do what they feel is right for them. In 30 years or so they will know if it was a smart move...

captplaystation

9th Feb 2013, 20:40

Exactly, intelligent is "appearing" to get it right today. . . really intelligent is looking back in years to come & finding you DID actually get it right.

Or maybe that is just "lucky".

Better to be born lucky than smart ! :rolleyes:

Gur744

12th Feb 2013, 16:12

I started with SAS in 2000. Still remember my first day at work in CPH when the Base Captain said to us "Welcome to your first day, at your last job"!!! Thought to myself "Think I just made the best decision I´ve ever made". Three years later I was desperately looking for a new job since I had received my letter from SAS terminating my employment. Couple of days ago I received a mail with the new pay scale and T/C´s. What a way to welcome you back. 14000 DKK less pr. month than I had 10 years ago and working more. Obviously SAS is trying to survive in a hostile environment and they have already done the maths and figured out that they are better off without someone like me returning. However to you that has a decent job even if it is not with a airline as "prestige" as SAS - think twice before giving it up and handing your career into the hands of SAS. Pilots are leaving SAS and former pilots saying NO to coming back. For me, I found out couple of years after I "left" SAS, that there is a life after SAS and if I would have been able to see where SAS was heading, before joining them, I would have been happy enjoying my life before SAS as well. I hope that SAS survives and will become what they once were, but I have my doubts as the endless pit they are stuck in just seems to get deeper and deeper :ugh:

sellect

12th Feb 2013, 19:09

What is the new salary currently on offer?

Tango123

13th Feb 2013, 13:39

Thanks for sharing Gur :-)

It would be interesting to know, who they will look for when taking new ones in (age, Type Rated, fighter pilots who wants to leave for a civ job, airline pilots , or?).
And also who will go for a job like this if they are already in a well paid job high on seniorlist and so on.

jackx123

14th Feb 2013, 02:51

Are the career prospects better in an expanding company(airline) or one that's stagnant or downsizing?

Join us in the Middle East boys and girls. Check out the aircraft orders for EK, EY AND QR. while you're at it check out the orders for SAS.

Housing allowance alone is more than the salary in SAS.:E

TypeIV

14th Feb 2013, 06:40

The average take home pay after per diems, taxes etc every month seems to be around €2500-€2700. :( increases by a couple of hundred per year in the company though. Even the NAS-contracts pays significantly better. But on the other hand, I'm not sure if a NAS-contractor get's paid annual leave, pension etc.

truckflyer

14th Feb 2013, 07:17

Are you serious? 2500 - 2700 Euros a month???

I mean whoever is bashing RYR and other Low Co companies, must be having a joke, this is for me pretty amazing. The living cost in Scandinavia is probably 30% higher than most of Europe!

Get rid of some of the pencil pushers, and few other money wasters, but this for me indicates the end of SAS, if true, who would want join them?

Specially because you might never get upgrade, and as soon as they don't need you, out you go!
FO's at RYR make that or more in a bad month! If true, SAS have to be offering one of the worst deals on the market! Would be interesting if somebody could confirm this!

truckflyer

14th Feb 2013, 11:57

Well I know, renting an apartment in Oslo will cost you + 10.000 kroner, and the cost of living is very high!

Yes I can't see people storming back to SAS with such conditions on offer, specially knowing that you will probably wait at least 10 years or more to get into the LHS!

Beyond a joke!

jackx123

15th Feb 2013, 12:11

The days of high compensation and benefits are long gone at SAS. If it is to survive the cost structure has to be competitive with competition. Well this brought SAS into the abyss in the first place. I cannot see how SAS will be ale to compete on a level playing field flying old steel kites which consumes 15-20% more fuel than e.g. Norwegian :cool:

truckflyer

15th Feb 2013, 12:30

But from these details, their pay structure is not competitive with the competition!

RYR, Norwegian and other Low Co companies pay better than this!

Saving money is getting rid of some of the pencil pushers, a huge admin that is not needed, more efficiency in the right places!

Of course flying around with yesteryears technology is not going to help either! Fact is that SAS was caught out in a deep sleep, not reacting to the market as the world around moved forward!

History shows that you come to SAS, your chances of LHS are close to ZERO, so there is no incentive to go to SAS as far as I see it.
Low pay, long time for upgrade - not very exciting times with SAS are there?

Gur744

15th Feb 2013, 17:12

I think we all have to face the fact that the future for us that want to make flying as our career, will be in the Middle-or The Far East. SAS or other airlines in Europe cannot compete with the likes of Emirates/Etihad/Qatari/Air China/Thai/Air Asia etc. I suppose we will always have the likes of Ryanair/Norwegian and some leftovers of the flag carriers - but in a smaller frame than today. This does not all have to be bad though - the pay in Emirates is not bad at all, support for your kids to go to a proper school, good health care for you and your family and not having to worry about the ice on the roads monday morning when going to work, or if this year we will get a good summer or not :yuk:
Bottom line, is your glass half full or half empty......

SK-pilot

15th Feb 2013, 21:54

- Start salary between kr.29 and 36.000 depending on type.
- Top salary kr.92.000 after 24 years.
- No temporary employments.
- No pay to fly, and no bonding.
- Work pattern shorthaul 5-4/5-3.
- Longhaul average 15 days off pr mth.
- 6 weeks paid leave pr year.
- Appr 25% of salary pr year into pension fund.
- Per diem between kr.400 and 1000 per day.

Is this worse conditions than DY, RYR and other LCC...? Worse than Vuelings kr 6000 pr mth starting salary, temporarily employed, pay to fly and bonding and no pension as well then...?

You are far off, and do REALLY not know what you are talking about, so this is end of this discussion from my side!

Kystflygar

16th Feb 2013, 07:02

"History shows that you come to SAS, your chances of LHS are close to ZERO..."

SAS pilots are on average relatively old. Most applicants will understand that the high age of upgrades now will be good news in some years.

Gur744

16th Feb 2013, 07:45

Not worth much when you receive the "letter" from SAS like 390 of us did in 2002/2003. I would like nothing better that returning back to SAS. But I am afraid that the current offer does not cover my monthly bills. My few years with SAS were great, good training and great experience - but I cannot justify going to bed "hungry" cos of some romantic picture that I have about returning back to SAS. With the Nordic tax system, what is left after you have contributed to the well-fare system, I dont see how one would be able to live anywhere close to his/her base in CPH/OSL/STO.

I hope those that do return back to SAS will find what they hope to find and again to those of you thinking about leaving a good job for SAS - think again......:=

truckflyer

16th Feb 2013, 08:33

My comments was based on 2500 - 2700 Euro pay per month, it would be good if people could be consistent with the currencies they use, if kroner, at least mention if Norwegian, Swedish or Danish, as they are not the same.

SK-pilot:

The FO's I know with RYR do about 850 hours a year, I believe after 500 hours and before 1500 hours they get around 65 Euros per hour, after 1500 hours 85 Euros per hour.

Use the lowest scale and that works out just under 5000 Euros per year, even if they have to pay tax of this, taxes are nothing close to Scandi taxes, i addition they can deduct ALL expenses before paying taxes.

Captains as far as I heard are making around 145 Euros per hour, and you make captain within 3 - 5 years normally. With the same amount of hours per year as also a few friends of mine do with UK base, this works out around 10.000 Euro per month, and you reach this figure much quicker than with SAS.

Now have in mind RYR are not one of the top payers, it makes SAS offer seem poor in my opinion.

Instead of clinging to the Scandi model of social welfare, and paying high taxes to secure pensions, there are OTHER ways people can secure their own retirement funds, if instead of waiting 24 years with SAS to get the TOP salary bracket, they can reach this within 4 - 5 years with few other companies.

It's the cushy welfare system in countries like Norway, that creates this massive government theft of peoples hard earnt money in taxes and various social contributions!

No I do not like RYR any more than most others, but when working for RYR can give pilots more pay and faster increase in pay, than working for a company as SAS pretend to be, I feel it is sad state of affairs!

High age of current SAS pilots, will not have impact on getting command with SAS still for many years, maybe average age is 50 or so, it will still than take 15 years until then there will more upgrades than normal, in 15 years SAS might not even exist anymore!

fightthepower

16th Feb 2013, 09:46

Forget your romanticized picture of Ryanair truckflyer. I have never had more than an average of 3300 take home as an FO on the highest scale.

You can of course make claim bogus "expenses" to reduce tax but don't really expect to get away with it for long.

And with that I have to pay my normal living expenses, and of course pay for an apartment in a second country since Ryanair sent me to somewhere far off with no chance of coming home or the base I want.

Paying for hotels, food, uniform and putting some aside for the day I have a car accident and no income for a few months.

There isn't a lot left after that is there truckflyer?

Let's not forget that after several years of working here I have yet to earn a single penny into any pension fund in any country.

SK-pilot

16th Feb 2013, 10:07

This turns into a political discussion about welfare models, political systems and housing prices which has nothing to do with this topic.

I do not think taxes are less in Germany than in Norway (they are higher!), it is not less expensive to get an apartment in Paris or London than in Stockholm, and you are free to live wherever you want, whether you work for SAS or an other airline. I work in DK, live in NO, and pay low (appr 25-30%), many live in France, Switserland and UK, and pay a lot less than me, and some live in DK, and pay a lot more... But that has NOTHING do with this topic!!!

If you would base your future on the RYR tax-paying system, which are under investigation in many european countries, you are free to do so. And if you want to live down in the sand, or in the smog in Shanghai for the rest of you life; do it. I am not interested in neither.

The salaries named above are DKK (which is almost the same as NOK), but it has never been a very big difference in salaries between the countries in SAS.

Of course salaries in SAS are now lower then they used to be, but they are not lower than similar airlines throughout europe, like Finnair, Swiss, Austrian or even the big ones.

If salaries had been on a level where you could come back from 10-12 years in another airline, and still get a pay-rise starting at level 1-3 in SAS they would have been much too high for SAS to survive. So due to this, and as mentioned before; most of the new pilots will probably be new-hires.

Regarding LHS: There will yearly be 50-100 retirements in SAS for the next few years, and this year an additional appr 100 due to the Etihad deal and the last round of early retirements. Count for yourself...

truckflyer

16th Feb 2013, 11:20

I do see and understand your point SK-driver. This is the way forward for SAS to try to survive!
I know a political discussion is not the point, however it does greatly hamper Scandinavien business, specially Norway, I can not speak for all others, as I do not know them that well.

Running a business with people working for you in Norway, is not easy, because the government wants taxes for everything, (Arbeidsgiver avgift) and social expenses are very well taken care off.
I have a close friend who recently moved back from UK after she had a child, because in the UK she would get close to nothing, while in Norway she comes straight back after 4 years studies and a baby, and get handed close to 15.000 kroner a month + part paid apartment! (Overgangs-stonad) - Now she is one of the "lucky" ones, because she is fully qualified with a degree, and will go into work life in due time, however many never will! Why bother, if you get more do nothing!
So of course this does impact on company and our salaries, because we get paid less, so more people can live and do nothing!

However I think one of the main issues SAS have now, is the amount of issues that are mounting ahead of them, increased competition, old fleet, insecure future, personally I would not mind working for SAS myself, but I have seen and talked to few who left companies like Austrian, Euro-Lot, Spanair, Alitalia and few other companies that hit the wall, and many jumped ship before the companies crashed, and for many they had to take a step backwards to get ahead. And your risk going to SAS, and being without a job at any time if things goes pear-shaped with the company.

Few days ago I met a pilot with 4000 hours on MD-80, recently lost his job, was going to pay for his own A320 TR, to make himself more employable!

When I travel I always compare the prices, SAS, BA, RYR, Norwegian and others, and always SAS come out the most expensive, I hate RYR bazars during the flight, so unless they are almost free, I would normally no fly with them, also Torp is NOT Oslo!
So it normally stands between BA and Norwegian, and this again is about price! So SAS have to have loyal customer base who do not just look for price, and maybe they have some key routes that I do not use, where they are the cheapest. But my personal experience with SAS is that altough I would be happy to fly with them, they have not been competitive enough!

Regarding the LHS, sure pilots retiring / leaving, but any new starters will be left at the bottom of the pile, while there are loads already frustrated of have been waiting for long time for the LHS. How long time will it take a new hire to be promoted to the LHS? 4 - 5 years?

I agree about the ME, not tempting prospect for me or my family, the far east however is a different concept, depends of course where you go, I have lived in both Hong Kong, Macau and Singapore in the past, and travelled around Malaysia and Indonesia, and some cities in China, of those places probably would only consider live in Singapore or Hong Kong, if I had a choice!

fightthepower -

if you are making that average 3300 Euros, that would mean you are flying around 460 hours a year, maybe this also depends on various bases, the guys I know are UK based, and they also fly much more than that.

Regarding the tax deductions, if you have a Limited company, almost everything you use in connection with your travel, living expenses while you are abroad is deductible, as long as you can relate it to your job!
Of course you need to keep an eye on this all, to know, but you might as well "spend" the money on items that you do require in connection / relation with your job, so without making fictious bills, you should not really need to pay to much tax, specially if you only making 3300 Euros as you say.

Believe me, it's not that complicated, specially if you have a good accountant that can explain you. I have had a Limited company other business for 10 years, if I saw there was a convention related to my business in as an example LA, I could travel there, visit the convention few times, and at the same time have a holiday, all expenses while away was deductable, as I had a reason to go to this specific destination.

Of course the KEY ISSUE, is that you are not really legally self-employed when you are a pilot working for RYR or any other company, however the problem is that NO government / tax authority has had the balls to challenge this, and take the bulls at the horns to stop all those BS contracts anyway. If they did do that of course, they would make it a level playing field for everybody!

Until than, we have to do the best with the options we do have available, and see what will be best for ourselves.

fightthepower

16th Feb 2013, 12:20

truckflyer, while I do appreciate your polite tone I'm afraid I can't agree with you because life in Ryanair simply isn't good.

The figure of 3300 i mentioned was NET of taxes and with a 80% income retention (which I was never close to) this gives 650 flying hours in a year. The hours are going down for FOs but this is not the issue here really.

We can claim "legal" expenses but the problem is that the pilots are not self employed by legal definition and the majority of us have been forced into this pseudo-legal arrangement against our will.

Ryanair simply does not compare to SAS if you are an 20 something year old FO.

I could add to the list in my last post of miserable conditions we have to endure but i think everybody get's the point anyway.

The people who really enjoy working in Ryanair do so at their colleagues expense.

If any poor FOs with Irish limited companies who are based in Bari against their will really enjoys it and finds it acceptable I can only say congratulations and all the best.

SK-pilot

16th Feb 2013, 14:45

@Truckflyer: Well - this is the first time I read that selling too expensive tickets is a problem for SAS - everyone else say we are selling tickets too cheap! With the very high load factors we have had for the last year, too high prices would be a very nice "problem"...! As an example; I checked the space avail situation on CPH-BKK for a friend for tomorrow; Thai have 113 seats available and SAS have 2 seats... I recommended him to fly Thai...!

Regarding the "old" fleet, I think you should check the average age once more - especially at the end of the year, when all MDs and most -300 are out of service. I dont quite understand where that 4000 hr MD pilot fit into this discussion. Not an ex SAS pilot I suppose, since we have not fired any pilots recently...

And again; that social/political discussion I leave to someone else - it is not a part of this topic at all!

jackx123

16th Feb 2013, 15:35

If I could rewind the clock 30 odd years I'd go for the option that offers quickest time to command, then go to one of the Asian / Middle East carriers since that's we're the money is and obviously the big metal.

SK-pilot

16th Feb 2013, 15:54

"Big metal"...??? God! - maybe I thought like that when I was like 21 years old... You are free to make that choice, but that is NOT for me, nor for any of my friends that have tried it! I have a life outside the cockpit as well, and that life will not be lived in the middle east!

truckflyer

16th Feb 2013, 21:33

I do agree on this last point, money and how big the metal is, does not matter at all!

Also do not believe in this golden dream of the ME, I know loads of guys who have been there, and it is not as great as you might believe it is!

I am not tolerant enough to take my family to live in an intolerant country!

bfisk

17th Feb 2013, 09:17

Of course the KEY ISSUE, is that you are not really legally self-employed when you are a pilot working for RYR or any other company, however the problem is that NO government / tax authority has had the balls to challenge this,

Oh really?

Known contract pilots with Norwegian citizenship are these days recieving a letter from the Norwegian Tax Administration stating that all income from flying as a contractor is to be reported as salary and not business revenue (lønnsinntekt vs næringsinntekt), with only "normal" deductions allowable.

(Dual taxation agreements may limit Norways power to levy tax, but as per normal practice, if taxed owed to the other country is less, you will still have to pay the difference.)

somethingclever

17th Feb 2013, 11:54

SAS-crew can fly for free. The company will still not be competitive. It isn't the working crew in SAS who are the problem, it's the fact that they have 8 meaningless managers and assistants for every flight attendant on the pay roll.

Seeing as nobody who makes the cuts are going to fire themselves or their management buddies, SAS is in for a slow painful death where the ultimate demise will be blamed on whichever political party is running the country at the time.

But, it's good news for Norwegian to have SAS slowly fade away rather than go out overnight with a bang. It keeps the Ryanair hyenas away and allows Norwegian a smooth take over in a pace that they can handle.

Ultimately it's an industry shift taking place and there is no stopping it.

In 10 years time we will be shaking our heads and the pay and work hours wondering what happened same as retirees from the -80s are doing now. 400 hrs a year, 1 hr turn-arounds, techs doing the external checks, load masters doing the m&b sheet. We laugh at the days of old and wonder how they could get away with it. A pension! Insurance! Crazy. Meanwhile they look at us from their villa in Nice and think why does anyone put up with it? Where's the respect?

We will do the same. From our villas. In Latvia. Eating porridge.

Meanwhile the bureaucrats in Brussels, when they aren't busy not paying income tax, sit down and decide how much rest the latest Pilot: Model 2013-1a, will require before heading off to another important free dinner party. I imagine we will find an emergency locker with amphetamine-pills onboard soon, for a pick-me-up before landing. Break glass in case of fatigue.

Enjoy! It's only your life passing by.

Hank the F/C

17th Feb 2013, 14:02

@SK-pilot
I think we can all be honest and admit that apart from the pension the SK- contract is lower than any of us could have imagined. They wave the 100k after 24 years in front of the new recruits like the carrot in front of the donkey...
As long as SK have a twice as high CASK than DY and FR do you really think they'll last for another 24 years?

SK-pilot

17th Feb 2013, 14:24

Yes - as long as SAS cut costs and continue to have among the industries highest earning pr pax. Costs in LCCs will always be lower, but SAS must come down to the CASK of other major airlines.

The CASK in SAS is going dramatically down after the reorganization - the latest estimate a few days ago (leading to an immediate 10% increase in the stock) is for 600 msek more than previously announced.

DY have actually twice the CASK of FR - do you really think DY will survive...?

captplaystation

17th Feb 2013, 14:40

somethingclever,

Think you summarised it very well there. :D

Hank the F/C

17th Feb 2013, 15:43

@SK-pilot
To me it seems like I heard it before. "next year we'll turn this ship around" but after 10years of hollow promises from one CEO after another why do you think that this time it'll be different? Don't get me wrong, we all hope that SAS will pull through but I just don't see it.

As for CASK DY's is higher than FR but I don't think it's a 100%.

A man far smarter than me, Lars Brynielsson, did this calculation last spring the numbers are in SEK, sorry cptps, the article is only available in Swedish)

"Kostnadsextrema Ryanair finns i komfortintervallet med CASK 0,25. I överlevnadsintervallet finns easyJet med CASK 0,42 och Norwegian med 0,47. Högre upp finns Airberlin med CASK 0,53, Finnair med 0,50 (0,63 med non-airline kostnader) och SAS med 0,80 (0,91 med non-airline och Spanair kostnader). Norwegian har alltså positionerat sig mellan easyJet och Airberlin." Flygtorget » Flygnyheter » Flygnyheter » Norwegian följer lågkostnadskonceptet (http://www.flygtorget.se/Aktuellt/Artikel/?Id=9093)

So to answer your quetion, yes, I believe in Norwegian's survival but can only hope for SAS'.

SK-pilot

17th Feb 2013, 18:07

Well - if FRs 25 vs DYs 47 is not close to "twice" I don't understand what is. Especially when you say that SKs 80 is twice of DYs 47!!!

But I think I leave this thread to the rest of you; When I try to bring some early information regarding recruitment, and it all ends up with the usual "doomsday of SAS" posts I leave the discussion to the rest of you!

Happy flying!

onebyone

17th Feb 2013, 23:34

I see several of you are predicting the doom of SAS in the coming years. I for one sincerely hope that won't be the case.

I'm quite happy with my current employer (it shall remain an anonymous Scandinavian LCC, let's just call it "the flying tampon"), and from our point of view we would like nothing more than to see SAS survive. Why? To be honest, we couldn't ask for a better competitor in our domestic market. We offer two different products which fulfull each other quite well, and i cannot see who would take their place. Ryanair won't do it (once they realize that Avinor can't be bullied into playing the Ryanair game), that's for sure.

There's also one more thing that baffles me. I'm fairly new to the aviation industry and not making anywhere near the numbers you are discussing for SAS captains, but why the focus on what your top salary will be? Isn't it more important that you actually have a decent salary that puts food on the table and a roof over your head, an insurance that covers your family and some sort of a pension fund to cover your later years? Whether you make 800.000 NOK or 1.000.000 NOK seems irrelevant to me, my concern is for the guys and girls making pennies, living out of the suitcases, and with the constant fear of going bankrupt if some drunk idiot decides to hit them with his car on the way back from the pub.

My two cents, i guess.

Mattis91

18th Feb 2013, 01:59

@SK-pilot

As an aspiring pilot, about to reach frozen ATPL in a scary pace, i find you thread very motivating. And i agree a political discussion should be held on a thread dedicated to that topic.

On to my question. In your opinion or knowledge inside SAS, what is the likelihood of SAS recruiting low hour pilots over the next few years? I think i know the answer, but i don't know for sure until i ask.

Again thank you for posting about future SAS recruitments. With most of my afternoons being spent researching the job market worldwide, opportunities in my native country are of the rare sort.

truckflyer

18th Feb 2013, 07:45

Unless they can manage to downsize management, and streamline efficiency I believe you have to see no way of recovery!

An extreme to show management savings, was Statoil, moving one of their Oslo head offices to one of the Baltic countries, my friend got released from Statoil with a nice final package!

The main point is that very minor savings can be made on flight crew and CC, as without them the company will not work! However major changes has to be done in the way the company is operated on management and admin level, as this is what drains the company of resources, as these levels are not productive enough!

Some have to be let go, some have to work more hours, all for the greater good to make sure the company can survive, in current structure they are dead men walking!

Nobody is brave enough to take the major step that will make it possible to survive!

I have similar and sometimes higher pay as starter FOs will get at SAS, with prospect of doubling my pay within 3 - 4 years!

I do not know who was behind this NEW SAS structure, and found this the right direction to go to try and save the company, and I am assuming pilots union accepted this!

I wonder the existing Cpt's and FO's, what are they on?
How much cuts did they accept in their pre-existing contracts?

And is this just another one of those, let's look after ourselves and our own deals first, and screw the ones coming after us?
Are these the same people screaming the loudest how pilot who join RYR are destroying the industry, and detest RYR for this!

Let's be honest most SAS pilots have been in the top of the food chain, the top earners, who has been given nearly everything for free with massive salary and pension packages!

Wesker

18th Feb 2013, 09:15

onebyone
I see several of you are predicting the doom of SAS in the coming years. I for one sincerely hope that won't be the case.

I'm quite happy with my current employer (it shall remain an anonymous Scandinavian LCC, let's just call it "the flying tampon"), and from our point of view we would like nothing more than to see SAS survive. Why? To be honest, we couldn't ask for a better competitor in our domestic market. We offer two different products which fulfull each other quite well, and i cannot see who would take their place. Ryanair won't do it (once they realize that Avinor can't be bullied into playing the Ryanair game), that's for sure.

There's also one more thing that baffles me. I'm fairly new to the aviation industry and not making anywhere near the numbers you are discussing for SAS captains, but why the focus on what your top salary will be? Isn't it more important that you actually have a decent salary that puts food on the table and a roof over your head, an insurance that covers your family and some sort of a pension fund to cover your later years? Whether you make 800.000 NOK or 1.000.000 NOK seems irrelevant to me, my concern is for the guys and girls making pennies, living out of the suitcases, and with the constant fear of going bankrupt if some drunk idiot decides to hit them with his car on the way back from the pub.

My two cents, i guess.

I agree with you. We should be more worried about the low end of this industry then the top. It is creeping up and salaries there are being lowered to almost nothing with most benefits gone. Most worrying though is the airlines use young pilots who have to pay for all their training and accept little or no salary at all... Tough luck for them you might think but what if we were suddenly out of a job. The airlines would then to chose between hiring us or someone willing to pay for everything. Who do you think they would chose?

linmar

18th Feb 2013, 09:43

The discussion regarding terms and conditions SK/DY/RYR or whatever should be kept in a separate thread.

SK-Pilot:

What are the latest number on recruitment? The 40 or so originally posted by you seem to vary from week to week depending on who you ask inside SAS.

At first I understood SAS would release 50 FC on LOA to Etihad but that number has then dereased as far as I know. Some 50 F/Os were set for upgrade quite early this spring but it now seems that the schedule for upgrades has been postponed some time, again.

The (increased) wet-lease of Blue1, Braathens Regional and Cimber over the summer seem to have also reduced the number of crew needed at SAS. What will happen after the summer, especielly with KF, I suppose would also have an impact on long-term (2-3 years) need for new hires.

As far as I understand the last time (Q1-2 -12?) re-hiring took place left about 25-30 pilots on the list from 2003. A couple of weeks ago all pilots that has their application in at "Former SAS Pilot" were asked to update their application and to let SAS know if they were no longer interested in coming back. Still though, there should be an unknown number of former SAS-pilots that have earlier turned down rehiring that might change thir mind. Given the new T&C's I don't see that happening though. There are probably a few on the list that will go back to SAS, but will there be enough for what is needed in 2013?

SK-pilot

18th Feb 2013, 19:57

I can inform you truckflyer that 1000 persons in management will be fired this year, that ALL concessions was equally distributed among ALL pilots, that there is a fixed pay cut and reduction in days off for ALL pilots, AND that the last (upper) 5 steps on our pay scale were removed for ALL pilots.

Clearly there are no administrators cleaning up "off topic" posts in this thread, and what from my side was meant to be a information to pilots who are interested in applying for a position in SAS has turned out to be a thread for pilots who for some reason are pissed off at SAS.

That was not my intention, so as I tried to do earlier; this is the last post from my side in this thread.

Hank the F/C

19th Feb 2013, 03:53

SK-pilot, my intentions were not to rain on your parade, but if SK is hiring pilots a healthy discussion about it's future is in place as the number of pilots needed will be a direct result of the 4XNG plan that was set in to motion late last year.
As for the CASK that I mentioned in my previous post, they were from last March and that's why I wrote "think" as the numbers for 2012 are yet to be announced. SK says when asked about future CASK they believe that they will reach 0.54 SEK by 2015. If they succeed SAS will have a very bright future.
SAS: Vi når Norwegians nivå | Handel och tjänster | SvD (http://www.svd.se/naringsliv/branscher/handel-och-tjanster/sas-vi-nar-norwegians-niva_7685164.svd)

truckflyer

19th Feb 2013, 04:13

Bfisk; what I meant is no government is yet challenging the companies like RyR, Norwegian etc., with regards to these contracts! It's easy to put pressure on the soft targets, with small resources, the pilots, only when some of the bigger nations puts pressure on companies like Ryanair will this have a real impact!

However unless it will be an unified approach it will not be easy to change this!

Maybe it will take more time, when also other industries start adopting this same approach!

As mentioned by onebyone and wesker, it is less relevant what TOP salary will be, rather an adaptation to a better average salary all the way, an a lower top salary!
End of the day, if correctly constructed it will end up the same, just you get to be able to live a life before you become 50!

Also what is current FO salary for somebody who has been with the company for 5 years or more?

SAS-A321

19th Feb 2013, 07:06

SK-Pilot:
If you get more news about the recruitment, please feel free to PM me, as I would not hesitate to join SAS, if I get the offer.

truckflyer

19th Feb 2013, 12:33

Jean-Pierre, many of us would love to work for SAS, the dilemma is how long will they last, until you maybe wish you had not moved to SAS!

About living in a foreign country, not speaking the language, learn it!

ComeFlyWithMee

28th Feb 2013, 15:19

I really enjoyed all the info you provided SK-pilot, thank you!! If you have time please give us an update.

truckflyer and Hank the F/C, I hope you enjoyed ruining one of the few usefull threads on pprune with your unwanted opinions and easily accessible info. Everybody reading this knows that if you join now you are either king of the hill or unemployed in 15 years :ugh: Few pepole however, knows what goes on behind the scenes. Please find something better to do an let SK-pilot and his colleagues get on with it!

Regards
Someone who wants to leave MOL-land

P.S. truckflyer the new SFO pay on Storm contract is 70,5 euro/h :mad:

TypeIV

28th Feb 2013, 16:14

Yes alot of the piethrowing could have been another thread. I heard that time is up for people wishing to return. Let's hope for some good news soon :8

scimitar345

28th Feb 2013, 23:17

Any news about the recuitment of new pilots in SAS? Did all the former SAS-pilots accept to come back or what is happening?

Take care / S

Gur744

1st Mar 2013, 12:14

Received the new pay-scale few weeks ago and then nothing. So if anyone has more info please post it. :)

scimitar345

1st Mar 2013, 12:31

Can you send me the new payscale? Would be VERY interesting to see that one.

fightthepower

1st Mar 2013, 12:33

Or better yet, can somebody post it here?

Gur744

2nd Mar 2013, 06:23

Hi Jean. I got it from the official channels (SAS)....

scimitar345

2nd Mar 2013, 09:26

Can you share it somehow? Would be very appreciated.

Cloudius

2nd Mar 2013, 09:39

J-P wrote:
Summing all things up, JA SGU' DA HELVEDE VIL JEG HJEM OG ARBEJDE FOR SAS
but as I have come to know experience over the years, it's not what you know, but who you know!
and i don't know a single guy inside!

"Knowing somebody on the inside" will not help you through SAS selection, as opposed to certain other companies.

So if you if you want to join SAS, don´t despair about the lack of "connections".

fightthepower

2nd Mar 2013, 12:31

So nobody wants to publish the payscale here? If anybody has it then would they mind sending it by PM?

Är det ingen som vill publicera den hade jag verkligen uppskattat ett privat meddelande.

TypeIV

2nd Mar 2013, 14:08

I would like to take part of it as well :8

scimitar345

4th Mar 2013, 10:14

Hi,

If you have the payscale (IF you have it...), could you please at least update the figures on following website: http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/SAS_-_Scandinavian_Airline_System

I think loads of people i Scandinavia would appreciate it a lot!

Boeing operator

6th Mar 2013, 11:06

So, did they get enough applications from previous employees, or will they need more drivers from the outside?

A few of you guys mention the new pay scale. For us outside the company, would it be possible to publish it – anonymised – here in this forum or on SAS - Scandinavian Airline System pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements. (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/SAS_-_Scandinavian_Airline_System) (or PM me).

Please! :ok:

ComeFlyWithMee

18th Mar 2013, 15:01

18 MAR 2013: SAS is recruiting new CRJ pilots
With an immediately need for pilots with CRJ rating , SAS is now welcoming qualified pilots to register there application via the " Apply link" in the menu.
Since restrictions apply to this recruitment process, pilots who already have a general application with SAS will have to apply again.
These positions requires a CRJ typerating, and a number applicant should expect to available for training with short notice

TypeIV

18th Mar 2013, 16:22

Things seems to be moving :D

Are there separate pay scales for the CRJ and the 737?

ONSHORTFINAL

18th Mar 2013, 16:36

Det var uflaks at jeg kan bare kjøre A320 :sad:

Lykke til CRJ flyger :ok:

Mir

20th Mar 2013, 15:46

More info. on their website about T&Cs:

http://www.flysas.com/en/SAS-Pilot/Salary--benefits/

The salary seems very low. Lower than what has been mentioned here as well. However the work scheme, pension and vacation seems quite nice.

Anyone care to share what to expect in per diem pay?

SK-pilot mentioned between 400-1000dkr, but is that per flight/work day, or how does that work and is it 100% tax-free?

Edit : Thank you, SK-pilot, for clearing this up and the valuable information to the thread ;)

SAS-A321

20th Mar 2013, 16:02

If you are a former employee or experienced pilot, this might be low for you, but that salary is quite good for us younger guys.
I heard that the CRJ salary will be lower than for the A320 series. I don't know how it works with the 737.

I would take it any day, but I don't have the CRJ or 737 rating.

Mir

20th Mar 2013, 16:10

Agree if you are looking for your first (or almost first) job, and I guess the pay-scales are okay, but I would be very surprised, if SAS are looking for inexperienced people... But you never know, could be a part of their new strategy. Would be a nice change for all the lowtimers out there :)

SK-pilot

20th Mar 2013, 16:23

@Mir: No - it is what I said: Yearly salary is 330.000 based on monthly salary plus some fixed extras for vacation etc, giving a total of appr 350.000 for CRJ.

Per-diem is per 24 hrs, and would range between 5000 and 10.000 per month, depending on how many nightstops you get. CRJ pilots are in the high end unless you bid only day trips. Taxation is depending on where you live. I live in Norway and are based in CPH, which result in no tax on per-diem.

TypeIV

20th Mar 2013, 17:04

Sk-pilot thanks alot for your valuable inputs in this thread. Alot of people are "very insatta" but have only been talking out of their hat. Your information has been very correct so far.

What is the difference between regional and main? is it as simple that CRJ is regional and 737 is main? thus the difference in pay?

SK-pilot

20th Mar 2013, 19:38

Regional is less than 100 seats (i.e; as of today, only the CRJ) - main is all A/C types 100+ seats.

TypeIV

20th Mar 2013, 19:58

Are there any updated figures on the number of new recruitments?
How is the recruitment process going to be? will it be conducted by Rekryteringscentrum or equivalent as earlier?

SK-pilot

20th Mar 2013, 20:54

On vacation now, and not very updated, but never heard about Rekryteringscentrum (did they do the prosess 12 years ago...?). Quite a few of my colleagues have joined the recruitment board as interviewers, so I thought it would be an internal SAS process, but maybe some external company are involved as well? I don't know...

Regarding numbers, most of the 40 pilots required during spring will be external new-hires, and the rumor is that SAS require at least the same number of pilots during the automn. Probably more...

Viking101

20th Mar 2013, 21:10

Didnt you guys just fire more crew? Or was that just new T&Cs that came into effect?

Never thought you were even thinking about employing new crew after all this... amazed. What happened?

Dont tell me you are expanding!

TypeIV

20th Mar 2013, 21:34

That sounds very promising. I wonder what type of profile they will look for. With my young age and not very academic background I hope that I will not be put too far back in the pile.

TypeIV

20th Mar 2013, 21:40

Does anyone know how many applications they got when the site was open?

I heard rumors of 2000 :uhoh:, If only 20% of these are scandis with a rating on the types chances are at 10%.

SK-pilot

20th Mar 2013, 21:49

Fired some pilots in 2010, but they all got re-hired within a year.

The hiring now is mainly due to an existing and planned expansion of 5% pr year, which amount to quite a lot of new pilots since we are appr 1500 pilots today. In addition, 50-60 pilots will reach retirement during the next year, and quite a few are going for an early retirement deal combined with flying their last years for Etihad.

The demand is reduced quite a lot due to the concessions given last autumn, with more working hours on each pilot, but still there is a demand for 40 new pilots during the spring, and planned at least the same amount during the autumn...

truckflyer

21st Mar 2013, 01:04

Will they be looking for any Airbus pilots? In the future!

MyIDisthis

21st Mar 2013, 03:59

Whats the salary for the 737 and when willl they start recruiting for this?

low n' slow

21st Mar 2013, 15:13

Looks like they require a type rating on the CRJ for the immediate recruitment and a 737 for the next batch. That's SAS adapting to the market I guess. I wonder how many will chance it and get type rated. Not many CRJ pilots around I guess as it isn't a very widely used type in these hoods. I for one would never pay to give a sinking ship a chance...
Best of luck to those who decide to go for it.

/LnS

SK-pilot

21st Mar 2013, 16:50

And the floating one is WF...??? Evidently impossible for many of us to stay within the topic - I give up...!

hawkeye red

21st Mar 2013, 17:21

Hmmmm....even with a typerating it will most likely take you 6-9 months to be released for normal line flying.....after all this is SAS....they call it flight safety...😳😳

TypeIV

21st Mar 2013, 18:17

hawkeye what do you base this on?

SK-pilot

21st Mar 2013, 19:37

Not his own experiece I suppose... I would guess 2-3 weeks incl SOP company procedures, OPC and emergency training.

hawkeye red

22nd Mar 2013, 13:31

Oohh...sorry you SAS guys...of course whatever you do can't be wrong....I forgot that...
One captain recently went from A320 to long haul....five and a half month of linetraing...excluding the typerating....on a type which is really not that different from the A320....just ask the Thomas Cook guys....but I do admire your admiration for a sinking ship...👍

SK-pilot

22nd Mar 2013, 19:51

Do you have to add some trashy sarcasm to express your meaning.

I went from CRJ900 to A340, and I had 4 roundtrips of line training plus a line check - done in 4 weeks. That is a fact - I don't know what your "friend" did. Get a life!

TypeIV

22nd Mar 2013, 20:00

Please let's try to keep this as a constructive thread discussing the new recruitment at SAS. Fortunetellers who actually know what they are talking about doesn't spam anonymously on forums. They invest and make a fortune on their predictions :8

Five months of line training? :suspect:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltfbmgusBH1r2d960o1_400.jpg

Viking101

22nd Mar 2013, 22:50

Sinking ship.

Would never. Ever. Even think of going there.

Experienced captains getting the offer of going back to their former employer as FO on a crj based in cph on a worse contract than they have now. From those in that position I know no one who accepted it. Logic.

jackx123

23rd Mar 2013, 04:09

Analysts have stated that SK needs to lower cost a further 30% to stay competitive and alive in the long run.

Does one join SK on the above T&C's with a relatively high probability of being made redundant in a few years.

Or

Does on join a ME carrier which expands like crazy with 3x take Home salary.

There are obviously differences. Waking up to a warm summer breeze or a crisp freezing morning.:}

MadDog Driver

23rd Mar 2013, 13:09

Hawkeye

If that Captain spend 5 1/2 months excl typerating, he sure is a special case:bored:

You seem bitter Mr. You comment on a question about time on linetraining, just so that you could squeeze in some bitter comments:) As someone said, get over it, and get a life:)

alkor

23rd Mar 2013, 17:01

Hi all,

Does SAS hire direct entry rated Captains? If it does what is Captains starting salary total?

Cheers,

A

A319

23rd Mar 2013, 17:07

Nope, no chance...

TypeIV

24th Mar 2013, 17:50

Any news on when they will start recruiting 737-people?

hawkeye red

24th Mar 2013, 18:32

SK and Maddog....don't make wrong conclusions.....I have a life...a very good life actually....:)....
Read Viking101's post...he is sooooo right...

MadDog Driver

24th Mar 2013, 19:57

Hawkeye,

Well, I was not commenting on Viking101's post:hmm: He may very well be right, that it is a sinking ship. But that was not my point,commenting on your first post, which first of all was completely factually wrong and when that was pointed out to you....out came useless bitter comments that serve no purpose in this thread :hmm: It is hard for you, to talk like an adult, as soon as the subject turns to SAS;) , and that really stinks of bitterness. Move on, man.

hawkeye red

24th Mar 2013, 21:05

Bitterness ?????....on the contrary...:8.....rather relief that I am not on the sinking ship.....:ok:...and never was....
...it's as easy as that....

MadDog Driver

24th Mar 2013, 22:49

Interesting then, the need you feel repeatedly, to throw bitter comments towards SAS,its employees,its flightsafety, and its training. And repeatedly make comments that are factually wrong;);) When people that actually know, call you out on your wrong statements, you just go back to the bitter comments. Well well. Keep denying. :)

ReallyAnnoyed

25th Mar 2013, 00:30

Det er sgu godt nok en lav løn SAS tilbyder nu om dage! Det er vist Thomas Cook man skal se efter, hvis man vil hjem til Skandinavien. Trist at et godt job er blevet så fesent. Det positive spin er at det nok mest er uerfarne eller arbejdsløse piloter, der vil blive tiltrukket af 29.000 kr/måned.

Viking101

25th Mar 2013, 09:21

TC Scandinavia...

Start on basic salary -2 years.

FO for the next 10-15 years.

Every capt has their own interpretation of company SOP.

Sounds really great. Sure lots of days off to spend all your money.

I am way better off away from little Scandinavia.

Who knows- ask me again in 15 years and it might be different?

Probably not though.

G.S. Willy

25th Mar 2013, 11:15

There is no doubt that the terms and conditions in SAS has taken a turn for the worse in the last 10 years.
That said, this thread is about the first round of recruitment in this company since 2001, I think people are interested in the present recruitment process and the present terms. In this, SK pilot is providing factual information, he is not part of management, just a pilot trying to give advice.

Hawkeye is not providing factual information, his dislike for the company and it's management is quite clear, what I cannot understand is his obvious dislike for the pilots in the company.

I am on a leave of absence from SAS, currently working in China, but scheduled to return to SAS soon.
I have experienced first hand three transitions since my initial training in SAS, none of them took more than 5 weeks, from start of type rating until I was released on the line. That is a fact, no matter what Hawkeye might have "heard", from some unknown source.

Finally, starting salary might not be very good, but you are a direct employee of a Scandinavian company, with a pension, insurance, sick pay, and ID tickets with most major airlines.

ReallyAnnoyed

25th Mar 2013, 11:31

Tror nu at Viking taler om Thomas Cook, da jeg nævnte at de tilbyder en, i mine øjne, langt mere attraktiv pakke end SAS. Hvis man vil hjem til Skandinavien, er der jo ikke så mange valgmuligheder, da man jo nok skal være desperat for at søge i SunAir og DAT. JT har jo heller ikke ligefrem en prangende pakke.

MadDog Driver

25th Mar 2013, 11:55

R.A .....you're right, my bad:ugh: Post deleted.:p

jackx123

26th Mar 2013, 02:03

Apart from getting paid fat salaries, what is SAS management actually doing? Cutting cost is an accounting job not managerial. LH is considering all options.

Lufthansa Considers Low-Cost Carrier Targeting Asia - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-25/lufthansa-considers-low-cost-carrier-targeting-asian.html)

TypeIV

26th Mar 2013, 10:47

Let's keep this thread about the recruitment situation, outlook and process at SAS please.

There are many other threads for their uniforms, sop, fleet, financial situation, management, scandinavian welfare systems, 5 months of linetraining, arrogance in security, what they eat for breakfast etc.

jackx123

26th Mar 2013, 12:59

TYPE:

It's highly relevant to know what your current and/or future employer has in mind in terms of expansion, fleet renewal etc. which all have an impact on the career. At least that's what I've always asked during an interview, but maybe because I had a choice. Look what happened at GF. A lot of jocks were left stranded when the airline decided to rid itself from a bunch of metal.:ok:

Well informed and educated decisions seem to have less likelyhood of going south on a personal level. A similar reason for digesting a TAF.

TypeIV

31st Mar 2013, 06:59

Does anyone have any news regarding the recruitment situation? Have the crj people been called to interviews yet?

Viking101

31st Mar 2013, 20:12

Have you tried calling HR?

Online?

Surely you will find out some answers there.

If this huge recruitment is going on, they should give out some info one could think...

Careful with the Galley FM.

Severe CAVOK

31st Mar 2013, 21:02

No idea about the recruitment situation as of today. Some CRJ rated have been attending interview/sim in the last couple of days for immidiate start.

TypeIV

2nd Apr 2013, 08:30

The it looks like things are moving at least. Does anyone know when the 737 recruitments will start?

The website says that the starting salary is 28000kr, not saying anything about that the "main segment" earns more as a starting salary. I've heard from some places that this number should be 35500kr for the 737 fleet.

A319

5th Apr 2013, 16:42

12 New-hires just recruited mostly for immediate start in April/May. Most, if not all, are ex Cimber with CRJ rating and experience, thus eliminating the possibility of remaining ex-SAS pilots to return. The total requirement for 2013 is now 80 pilots (CRJ & 737). Huge requirement for pilots as SAS has neglected to hire pilots since 2000. Looking at approx 100 pilots next year due to pilot retirement. The Etihad deal has so far failed to materialize...

semmern

8th Apr 2013, 21:22

80-100 at ARN, CPH and OSL, or just ARN and CPH?

md80pilot

18th Apr 2013, 02:26

Very interesting reading. Since I was "let go" from SAS in 2004, I have not heard a thing. Contacted the union a couple of years ago and they told me in an e-mail that, us pilots would be offered rehiring back to SAS prior to any hiring off the street. Guess not.......

Furthermore, can anyone who worked for SAS prior to the layoffs in 2004 and returned tell me if you retained your seniority number and place on the list and also if you went back at your longevity pay you had when we got laid off?

Or were you put on the bottom of the list behind all the Braatens pilots who were hired after our hire date at SAS.. I was an early 99 hire.

Very curious about what happened.:confused:

Vixun

18th Apr 2013, 18:31

SAS will start recruiting for the 737 with ARN base quite soon, numbers not known but I think they need more than a few.
The plan is also to employ non rated pilots in CPH for the CRJ as there are very few available with that rating.
Today there are pilots with OSL and CPH base flying out of ARN, I suppose they wanna get them back to their bases before recruiting to A320 in CPH or 737 in OSL.

Flathadder

19th Apr 2013, 06:34

All who got laid off and who left a forwarding address should have been contacted last year. All who wanted to return have done so and are now flying the line. This includes people who flew left seat with the local competitors as well as in the sandbox.
The first class of off the street new hires recently started class.

truckflyer

19th Apr 2013, 17:55

So there will be recruitment on the A320 eventually sometime in the future?

Severe CAVOK

20th Apr 2013, 15:00

That's probably not going to happen in the near future, we're talking several years in best case...

scimitar345

20th Apr 2013, 18:54

Is there nobody who could share some details regarding the salary levels on B737 on the new agreement? The only thing available so far is the stuff released on sasgroup.net (27000kr start + 15% pension contribution). Would be very thankful for some more info, salary after 3, 5, 10, 15, 20 and 24 years for example. Anyone?

TypeIV

21st Apr 2013, 17:30

Det ryktas vara 35500 bagis i månaden för mainsegmentet, dvs kärror med fler än 100 säten men jag har inte fått det bekräftat. Även jag är intresserad av lönestegen.

scimitar345

21st Apr 2013, 17:36

Ja jag har också hört den siffran (flygtorget tror jag det var.....) men ingen som bekräftat det. Har även hört att det inte e någon skillnad mellan CRJ och Main längre, inte heller det är bekräftat. Om det är 35500kr så lär väl snittlönen ligga på 40 000 kr i runda slängar inkl. per diem?

scimitar345

21st Apr 2013, 17:53

Ja det är sant. 35500 brutto blir 27000 netto (stockholms stad). Vet du hur mycket en normal månad genererar i per diem ungefär?

Tango123

21st Apr 2013, 19:43

Mon det bliver self sponsered Type Rating næste gang der skal bruges folk til CPH på CRJ, og puljen blandt de nuværende ansøgere er tømt?

TypeIV

21st Apr 2013, 20:07

Lite drygt 3000 i traktamenten har jag hört rykten om. Det verkar vara 2000 pers i poolen. Får se hur pass man står sig.

SAS-A321

22nd Apr 2013, 12:09

Spørgsmålet er om puljen nognesinde bliver tømt eller om Cimber bliver fødeline. Man kan stadig efter senioritet byde ind på flytype, så tror aldrig der vil, blive ansat direkte på A320.

md80pilot

24th Apr 2013, 01:30

All who got laid off and who left a forwarding address should have been contacted last year.

WRONG......or maybe the emphasis is on "should have", because I certainly
haven't hear a word. And I have updated my info and NSF has my info,
but I guess that does not matter.

Does that mean I would have returned......

I don't know, I was never offered the choice to return or not. That is why I was
wondering if Seniority was kept, Pay longevity kept, etc, or if one was treated
as a new-hire and start started all over.

:=

AutoAbort

24th Apr 2013, 07:12

I have friends in the middle east who were contacted even by paper mail! So I believe at least SAS tried. For the rehiring, as I understand: If you accepted the offer you got back seniority and pay scale as when you were let go. (With all the erosions of the current deal). If you show interest at a later stage they might take you back if they need you and you keep your old seniority but pay start at the bottom again.

AA

Vixun

25th Apr 2013, 15:31

Then there is opening for 737 rated pilots with STO base, here is the ad:
SAS Group SAS Airline Operations - For pilots holding 737 type rating (http://sas.easycruit.com/intranet/Intranet/vacancy/968219/13087?iso=se)

F_Hercules

25th Apr 2013, 22:24

md80pilot:
Take contact with SAS recruitment. I have several friends who received calls and mails from SAS the last weeks regarding offer to return. It was their last chance now. You will keep your old position on the seniority list and the same year on the payscale. If you are intrested later on you will be treated as a new-hired.

Vixun

29th Apr 2013, 09:43

Wrong information in above post, starting salary on 737/A320 appr. €4800 gros. Starting on €3700 gros for the CRJ, in addition to this appr. 15% to your pension fund.
Planning to hire 85 pilots during rest of the spring and summer, numbers for autum not known so far.

TypeIV

29th Apr 2013, 10:37

From what I've heard that's the old payladder that the current employees are on and that there is a new separate ladder for the "new hires" with much lower salary after the negotiations. The pay with 35505 sek was from the times when there was extra pay for the main-segment wich now no longer is paid.

empati

29th Apr 2013, 11:39

Siste:

SAS ekspanderer og ansætter piloter
SAS skal rekruttere piloter til baserne i København, Stockholm og Oslo. Siden 2001 har SAS ikke ansat nye piloter, men i løbet af foråret skal vi sige velkommen til 85. De første er allerede ombord.

Simon Andersen tog sin pilotuddannelse på flyveskolen i Roskilde. Som nyuddannet pilot havde han et stærkt ønske om at komme til SAS og ansøgte også dengang i 2009, da han blev færdig. Først blev det til nogle år hos Cimber Sterling som pilot på CRJ-200, og så et kort stop hos TNT Express. Men nu er jobbet som pilot i SAS en realitet, og den 3. juni begynder omskolingen til CRJ-900. Først skal Simon tage kurser i alle manualer og gennemføre ture i simulator. Derefter står den på line training med en instruktør.

- Jeg er virkelig glad og ser frem til en helt ny livsstil med et job, hvor basen er tæt på min bopæl. Jeg glæder mig også til at få en masse nye skandinaviske kolleger, siger Simon Andersen, der oprindeligt er fra Nordjylland, men nu bor i København.

- Jeg har fulgt med i den turbulente tid for SAS, men jeg tror på det nye SAS, og jeg synes det er fedt at være med. Der er selvfølgelig stadig udfordringer, ikke mindst konkurrencen fra lavprisselskaberne, men jeg tror også på SAS’ produkt og på, at vi har et brand, der står for kvalitet.

SAS rekrutterer på alle tre baser

SAS har i april rekrutteret 20 nye piloter til basen i København og 10 til Stockholm. Senere på foråret skal der 10 yderligere ind i København, 25 i Stockholm og 10 i Oslo.

- Vi ekspanderer i 2013. Vi åbner nye ruter og udvider samtidig med, at mange af vores dygtige piloter går mod pensionsalderen. Det betyder, at vi fremover har et markant behov for nye piloter og kabinepersonale. Det glæder mig, at vi også kan være med til at skabe arbejdspladser for piloter i Skandinavien på gode skandinaviske ansættelsesvilkår, siger flyvechef Per Schrøder.

Af er de 20 i København er 14 erfarne piloter og seks er helt nyuddannede – og dermed også meget unge.

- Vi har ikke fået nye kolleger ind i over 12 år, og jeg tror det er rigtigt godt at få nogle unge mennesker ind, som ser med nye øjne på SAS og kommer med helt nye ideer. Det glæder mig meget, og jeg byder dem varmt velkommen.

SAS-A321

29th Apr 2013, 14:12

Af er de 20 i København er 14 erfarne piloter og seks er helt nyuddannede – og dermed også meget unge.

Hvad skete der lige med, at man skal være type rated? :ugh:

Nick Figaretto

1st May 2013, 14:39

SAS tenker framtid. Er det noe man har nok av, er det eldre, erfarne piloter. Det må satses på noen unge også.

Flathadder

3rd May 2013, 07:03

Yeah, who needs experienced pilots? We want clueless pilots, guys who haven´t seen anything, done anything, and who don´t question anything. That´s the present and most definitely the future. About time SAS realized as much.

B-U-S-S

3rd May 2013, 09:00

Instead of taking a CRJ/A320 rated pilot, they now have to pay for 2 type ratings per pilot instead of 1. Unless they magically found 6 guys with CRJ rating and 0 hours on type.

There are younger experienced pilots out there who have been working abroad, waiting years to get their chance with SAS and who would not hesitate to join SAS without complaining about current conditions offered.

I don't know how that is thinking about the future, but we are reaching a level where nothing from SAS can surprise you.

jackx123

3rd May 2013, 09:41

Seems the "experienced" drivers are having bad days

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/513857-sk-a333-wing-clips-ua-rj-tail-ewr.html

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/512878-sas-diversion-accompanied-typhoon.html

Hotel Charlie

3rd May 2013, 12:22

Wanting to join or get into this business these days should be disqualifying in itself!! :eek:

TypeIV

3rd May 2013, 18:39

Does anyone have the updated payscale for 737 ARN-base? Company says starting salary 27000 danish KR. Some people say that the pay is higher for the 737-fleet.

Tuborglite

3rd May 2013, 18:50

Starting salary main 32000. Rc 27000. This is basic, per diem and overtime on top.

TypeIV

3rd May 2013, 18:53

Can anyone tell me for sure if they still have the main/rc-segments? alot of rumours says that the unions agreed to have the same pay a couple of years ago wich will be the case for the new recruits.

Severe CAVOK

3rd May 2013, 20:48

The two-segment payscale is only for already employed. For newhires there's only one payscale, starting around 27-28k. However, for pilots flying the CRJ in CPH, there's a cap at level 7, which is the max level, as long as you are FO on the CRJ. When you transfer to other types, you'll jump to the level, where you would have been, if there was no cap, and continue the climbing the ladder.

TypeIV

5th May 2013, 15:25

Is there anyone here who has attended the interview/sim that can share some info?

B-U-S-S

9th May 2013, 10:36

There is a rumour that someone in SAS recruitment is also involved with the flight school in Roskilde where the 6 brand new pilots came from. := :rolleyes:

truckflyer

9th May 2013, 20:16

I am wondering if they got 6 brand new pilots, how did they apply?

Wasn't the requirement to apply that you had to be type-rated to apply? So if not type-rated, would you still have been able to submit the online application?

TypeIV

9th May 2013, 20:26

Maybe they couldn't find enough CRJ-rated people. Has anyone got any information on how many people they will need? Pretty much everyone I know that has applied has been invited to the assessment.

Gandor

9th May 2013, 20:46

There is a rumour that someone in SAS recruitment is also involved with the flight school in Roskilde where the 6 brand new pilots came from.

There might be some truth to that :ugh:
TV 2 Nyhederne (http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/video/index/id/67665715/)
without accusing anybody of nepotism, you may wonder about any relation (familie or friends) :D I'm just implying

But people are innocent until proven otherwise

Fredrik888

10th May 2013, 07:32

Have anyone any information about how the assessment process look like and what to expect?

aviator_88

10th May 2013, 11:52

How long have you guys been waiting from the date u submitted application until you got the invitation for assessment??

Sasser

10th May 2013, 15:03

If you have a good memory and google to assist you it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone with same last name as the guy in the video, is Chairman of SAS piloternes Pensionskasse and used to be a board member of the SAS pilot union. Currently a captain in SAS and has a son with same name as the guy in the video. The son is born in 1988 so he would be 24 just like the guy in the video. If it smells like fish...

Maybe his flying skills are as good as he claims or maybe he just has a dad who knows someone :hmm:

Hotel Charlie

10th May 2013, 23:20

truckflyer

11th May 2013, 07:08

Ledelse (http://www.saspilot.dk/ledelse.aspx) and TV 2 Nyhederne - Video (http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/video/index/id/67665715/)

Is this another conspiracy theory, or does it just show how far SAS is out of touch with 2013!

Rumours of this going on in the old days was quite big from what I can recall, brothers, sons etc.
I guess they prefer to keep it a family business!

Now I am just curious, where did SAS have the advert for these jobs, that said no minimum experience was required and no TR was required?

As far as I know, I never saw any SAS advert for these jobs, confirming that it was a free for all to be able to apply!
Or did I miss something?

truckflyer

11th May 2013, 08:26

The saying that seems to explain this best; it is not what you know that counts, it is WHO you know!

Scandinavia is not any whiter than Russia (trying to pretend all is done nice and fair - in Scandi-land, I think most can see this clearly now!

Personally I would not have applied anyway for CRJ position, but it does show something fishy has been going on! It's what many of us know from the past, family, friends first - it's the SAS way again!

B-U-S-S

11th May 2013, 10:14

This gets more and more fishy. Apparently also non-rated experienced guys were hired onto the CRJ.
It seems like the guys in recruitment used this opportunity to hire all their friends and kids into the CPH base. :yuk: :=

I don't think it is in the interest of the governments to sponsor the type ratings of the SAS crews friends and kids, when there are many rated pilots out there to take from.

We are many who have been waiting years to be able to join the company and gained experience elsewhere, so it is quite disappointing that we did not get a chance at all.
With less A320 coming than MD80s going, it looks like it will be some time before there will be openings in CPH again.

I thought highly of SAS before and thought they had become wiser and was finally saving the ship they had been trying to sink for years, but I guess they have not learned anything. :ugh:

If this guy in the video is so good at flying, why has he not been able to get a job for two years? :E His situational awareness is definitly very poor, since he should keep his head low with the way he got into SAS.

One Outsider

11th May 2013, 14:21

As the ongoing Ryanair saga has shown, it is perhaps wise not to let bitterness get the better of you and post claims that one might be held to account for later.

Sasser

11th May 2013, 18:27

Ledelse (http://www.saspilot.dk/ledelse.aspx) and TV 2 Nyhederne - Video (http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/video/index/id/67665715/)

Is this another conspiracy theory, or does it just show how far SAS is out of touch with 2013!

Rumours of this going on in the old days was quite big from what I can recall, brothers, sons etc.
I guess they prefer to keep it a family business!

Slægten Spangsberg (http://www.kajj.dk/pages/person.php?person=12997)

Erik Dalby Hansen
Født 1956

Børn
Mads Dalby Hansen (http://www.kajj.dk/pages/person.php?person=18695)
1988 -

All publicly available information.

truckflyer

12th May 2013, 12:50

Yes sush.....!
Don't talk about it, let's all be politically correct!

I have the e-mail from SAS requesting only CRJ rated pilots to apply, so.... I am very curious how this happen!

It is not that is for me, I prefer to stay on the A320, however I would like to know how this "lucky 6" managed to apply, when it seems that was not the requirement in the job description!

However the evidence shown, does indicate having good contacts and family in SAS still gives you a big advantage to get into the company!

I know of few guys with lots of experience on other types, who are young, and who would love to get the change to "move" home working for SAS!
I guess SAS budget savings includes paying and taking risks on unexperienced pilots, while there is a huge amount of ex-pat Scandis just waiting for such a chance to get back home again!

I guess when they can just ask the taxpayers for some extra funds, it is not so difficult!
SAS does not seem to learn, and their failure to even remotely adapt to the very tough competition is what could be their biggest failure!

I mean a 25 - 27 year old, with 3000 - 5000 hours on A320 or 737, must be less risky investment for SAS, than 6 guys from basic school!

Let me guess, they did not fit the SAS profile for the "recruiters"

truckflyer

12th May 2013, 13:32

"Welcome to the SAS pilot application process, CRJ pilots.

(This process is for CRJ pilots only, holding a valid CRJ type rating)"

SAS Group SAS Airline Operations - New pilots with CRJ rating, CPH (http://sas.easycruit.com/vacancy/943429/13087?iso=gb)

Exphil

12th May 2013, 19:14

I would suggest you lay all your thoughts about any form of conspiracies aside. As in any company there are a lot of relations between applicants and those who are in a position to pick new employees from the long list of applications. I would expect those who choose who will be called for the interviews, sim test and more have such an integrity that they are not influenced by anything other than the applicants qualifications.

If you would like to apply to SAS, think you are the right person and have the necessary qualifications as specified by SAS you should forward or update your application as soon as possible. SAS requires a lot of new pilots as of now, and as said earlier in this tread the chance for a rather rapid career towards senior captain looks quite good at the moment. The mean age of SAS pilots today will result in most of them being pensioners in 15 years.

Rgds.

truckflyer

12th May 2013, 19:54

Maybe, the question is why would they pick 6 guys/girls from ONE school, and all of them not having a TR on the CRJ, when it is very clear from the job advert that only people with TR on CRJ should apply!

This might have discouraged some, who do not have CRJ TR, but have plenty of hours/experience on other type!

When these things happens in "other European countries" we have one word for it, however when it happens in Scandinavia, where we are like "snow-white" it seems to another word for the same thing!

Questions should be asked by the relevant parties regarding this, it smells a bit like the moose has been out inviting his friends to the party, without telling the others about the invite!

Another interesting point with "Exphill" poster, this subject made you create an ID / new ID on PPRune - just for the purpose of answering this question!

We are talking about a company trying to save money, so they do not go belly up, where is the logic to take untrained pilots, an put them trough line-training cadet program and TR, which will cost much more money than employing people with loads of hours of experience!

It seems somebody is looking after their own personal interests with the companies cash, instead of what is the best for the company.

There is not exactly a pilot-shortage!!!

One Outsider

13th May 2013, 08:15

...the evidence shown...The only evidence is that of petty envy, a jantelov alive and well and balls so tiny that hiding behind anonymous usernames is required when attacking named persons.

The ball-less "Sasser" had to create a new ID to hide behind just to throw **** around and that apparently is OK with you, but when Exphil creates one to give you a sensible and reasoned answer you question the motives.

I can figure out if you are just naive, gullible, ignorant or just disingenuous. Or perhaps a sorry mix of all of it. You and your friends remind me of a footballer after losing a match blaming it on the referee, the pitch, the weather, the ball, the spectators, on anything and anybody else than their own inability to get the ball in the net.

In other words a sore loser.

aviator_88

13th May 2013, 09:16

sorry for digressing from conspiracy theories, but does anyone know of someone holing a 737 TR who already has gotten an invitation for interview??
if so, how long did they wait for any kind of reply from SAS?

linmar

13th May 2013, 10:11

aviator 88:

A friend of mine (RYR FO) applied last week and was contacted within a few days to check for availability. No invitation for interview yet, new interviews to be held soon.

SAS needs copilot urgently, in less than the three month notice a lot of companies use.

aviator_88

13th May 2013, 11:34

thx for info linmar

truckflyer

13th May 2013, 13:24

Really, so maybe somebody could answer me why SAS responded with this email to me when I made a request to them If I could apply even if not CRJ rated!

These are facts from SAS team recruitment;

Du kan kun søge hvis du opfylder alle betingelser! Vi skriver tydeligt at man SKAL have typerating.
*
Søger du uden typerating risikerer du at din ansøgning bliver slettet.
*
Med venlig hilsen

-JOL-

14th May 2013, 08:48

I choose to accept that having good contacts will help you to get a job, stops me from getting bitter.

Soooo, back to the question many have asked, none have answered;

Does anyone has a clue how the assessment looks like?

Applied the other day for rated 737 F/O:s, no reply yet.

TypeIV

14th May 2013, 08:57

Sim is in a fntp2 737-style. Just basic stuff really. About the group/interview I do not know. You will get briefed well before going there.

The base salary of 28k kr, is there anything else on top of it except for the per diems? A net income of €2500 a month will not pay the bills living in Stockholm :E Is there any overtime payment of some sort?

-JOL-

14th May 2013, 09:37

Thanks TypeIV.
Yeah, that salary is not impressive.
I guess its the first step on the payscale and perhaps you get placed higher on the ladder based on experience, age etc etc.

Pure guess of mine but 28K cant be what they offer considering they need quite a few of us and at least three other operators in Scandinavia are hiring with higher salary (JT, Primera, NAS).
Not fixed posititions of course, but still...

Tally-ho1

14th May 2013, 09:51

The companies named (JT, Primera and NAS) are all on the bottomline, talking about salaries. WF and the scandinavian charter companies ( TUI, Novair and Thomas Cook Scandinavia) are all well above, especially Thomas Cook, with the best deal in market.
Remember that most all expansion in NAS is via contractors this days!

Severe CAVOK

14th May 2013, 13:34

There is overtime payment, but overtime happens maybe once per year, so that is not gonna make you rich.

"Days off" can be sold, if the Company ask for it, and you agree. For the time being either 8 or 14% of a monthly salary per day, depending on how many duty hours the perticular day has. There's a yearly max number of days. But you can't really plan on this extra income.

Alpha Golf Mike

14th May 2013, 15:30

Forgive me if this is asked about a hundred times before, but what is a normal rooster for a SAS FO? The "usual" 5/4?

Severe CAVOK

14th May 2013, 20:24

5/4 would be nice, but now it's 5/4/5/3.

Viking101

14th May 2013, 22:05

Welcome to the real world then finally...

DSACZ

22nd May 2013, 12:00

Hello,

I have applied for a 737 type rated F/O. What I really like about SAS recruitment team is that they always answered my inquiries pretty quickly. On the other hand I don´t like the fact that I have never received more specific response. When I asked them about number of newcomers for 2013 season the answer was as follows:

I am not able to provide numbers but we will need many 737 pilots in 2013. Best regards Klaus Team Pilot Recruitment

My another question was about starting of their recruitment process:

We are interviewing this week, so have started. (sent to me May 8th 2013) Best regards Klaus

Diper

24th May 2013, 10:07

Hører rykter om at det er mange av de som har søkt som sier "nei takk" når de får høre betingelsene, spesielt lønnen. Er det noen som vet noe om dette?:O

Fladbrokeandbusted

24th May 2013, 11:15

This has properbly been afsked before but what if a pilot has, 3000tt 1500 hours 737 experience and some Heavy time as Well...as 1000 hours 777... Is thats pilot not suitable if he does not have a full "studentereksamen or equivilant"??

I dont know if "normal" work experience/4 year Danish Education counts Towords this. :-)

TypeIV

24th May 2013, 11:55

They pretty much want you to be eligible to do university studies. This usually means highschool education to be completed.

axl76fg

25th May 2013, 19:16

so.,.
Anyone been invited could tell us how is the Assessment?.
;)

Klimax

27th May 2013, 14:14

Unless you'r 22 years old and more or less straight out of flying school that salary is almost an offence - what a joke, sorry to say. Hope they get lots of "no shows" from the experienced ranks :ok:

Hotel Charlie

27th May 2013, 16:05

WORD!, It's a frikkin insult :mad:

dcoded

27th May 2013, 21:05

I applied two weeks ago.
And I still have not anything from them. Seems to me I am the only one who have not been called for interview.

Clandestino

27th May 2013, 21:29

A net income of €2500 a month will not pay the bills living in Stockholm It's in close neighborhood of what I currently earn but 700 € more than what my FO's can hope to haul home monthly. If it's indeed small pay for Sweden, are those who land this job eligible for some sort of social security allowance or at least food coupons?

dcoded

28th May 2013, 11:50

Haha. No, you are not eligible for that sort of stuff if you are working.

Yes, 2500EUR net is not very much money.
But it is enough to survive in Stockholm.
There is no requirement for you to live in the CENTER of town.

You would have to adjust your location to your pay.
And if you are a two income family you would be getting off quite nice.

Stockholm is full of students who survive from 950EUR/month :}
Around half of that is spent on rent.
On top of that beer, herbs, books and travel passes..

So you can manage! :}

Edit:

Yes, if you are a guy who have been working abroad the last couple of years and waiting for a chance to return home, the salary is poor.
But for all straight from school it is OK starting pay.

On the other hand, type-rating mandatory so most have been working abroad with higher pay.

But then Norwegian has better deals if you get over to the "Core" after 2 years.

DSACZ

31st May 2013, 10:34

Hi guys,

Is here anybody who has already been invited for SAS assessment in 2013? If yes, be so kind and share your experience, please.

Thanks

dcoded

31st May 2013, 22:16

DSACZ:

I know from my sources who have been there that a nordic language is a must.

You will sit down for 2 days of interviews with HR, and captains and they want to check your level of understanding nordic languages as I understand it.

Don't get me wrong, but I am just relaying information.

Sorry to put you off since I understand you are from the Czech Republic.

TypeIV

1st Jun 2013, 05:28

Dcoded, you will have to rent an apartment and will not find anything for less than €700 unless you move in with other people. And on top of that you must own a car, commuting with public transport is impossible for this job since the working hours are so irregular. That will cost you €250 in only taxes, parking and insurances every month. Add the cost of car, maintenance and fuel.

If you still have a loan for your type-rating and training. Then you must take new loans to keep up with the mortgage :8

jackx123

13th Jun 2013, 08:04

an asian airline has shown interest in buying SAS. wonder what that will do for the future

Severe CAVOK

13th Jun 2013, 10:45

That's a good rumour, and it hasn't even reached Scandinavia yet :ok:

Which asian airline?

I've heard, that non-EU airlines can't buy a majority post in an EU airline, so it might be a little tricky.

But it's a good rumour...

jackx123

14th Jun 2013, 14:16

Not so much of a rumour according to statements made by Peter Norman, a Swedish minister in an intvju.

GA_flps1

28th Jun 2013, 19:37

Does anyone know when the next batch of interviews will be held for ARN-base? have they sent out invitations yet?

GA_flps1

14th Jul 2013, 17:10

Does anyone know anything about the new payscale and when the next interviews are planned?

Basologie

5th Nov 2013, 13:38

Just to make it clear İ would love to work for SAS. But like many İ just got a job at a low cost carrier which (if you only look at money) earns more per month.
And since i have the big as loan money is kindoff an issue.

That being said if there is any way for me to make it work and actually get hired i would probably take the job in a heartbeat.

That being said İ would love to get all the relevant data just to be sure. SO just to sum up the cash part (excluding the off days and pension)

Salary 27 000 DDK (approx 3600) this is before tax (please correct if wrong) => meaning with Swedish tax you have approx 2500,- netto with "free" health care.

Layover money varying between 500-800 euro netto per month (just read this somewhere not confirmed by an official source, feel free to confim or deny this if you work for sas:) )

This would give a total salary of atleast 3000,- per month.

Now i was wondering how quick do you go up in pay is that only with years in the company or also with flight hours. And do you get extra money on top of the initial base salary for hours you already have on type?

Hope someone can help me figure out if i can make it work since i would love to work for sas.

Thnx in advance

GA_flps1

6th Nov 2013, 11:49

If you have quite a few lay-overs per month you may expect to get around 25000 sek net. I made more loading their bagage.

They do not take your previous experience into consideration and the salary increases with (I think) roughly 1600 sek per year before tax (appr. %30) so if you have intrests/mortgages to pay then I would look for something else, unless you can live in Stockholm cheaply (take costs of living in Berlin and pretty much double it if you own a car and go out for a beer once a week).

empati

12th Nov 2013, 22:42

135 pilots to be hired by the end of the year and the rate increasing next year. Nearly all SAS pilots to be replaced in 10-15 years. A lot of activity the next few years!

GA_flps1

13th Nov 2013, 09:09

135 pilots to be hired by the end of the year and the rate increasing next year
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Will this be for all bases and aircraft types?

A319

13th Nov 2013, 09:59

All bases probably, yes. Looks like for 737 and CRJ only for the time being...

GA_flps1

13th Nov 2013, 12:16

I heard rumors of them trying to get rid of the first steps on the pay-ladder to be able to attract rated and experienced locals. Does anyone know if there is any truth or progress in this matter?

Kelly Hopper

16th Nov 2013, 14:13

Rentals in Stockholm?? Haha! There is a 25 year wait for 1st hand rents so the only option is 2nd hand and you will pay 1000 + for a small flat.
I was only saying today to a mate "how does anyone on a small wage exist here?" I just paid 2500 for a worker to do 2 days!:{
Live here on a monthly of 2500? You are having a laugh??

captplaystation

16th Nov 2013, 18:43

People have over the years (justifiably) criticised the P2F mentality when talking about Ryanair/Easy Jet etc (little Johnny wants to fly a jet, so , he does now, & guess what, sitting in seat "minus 1F" he is paying more than any of the pax)

From what is written here about the SAS package , it seems SAS believe there are a supply of blonde/blue-eyed boys dreaming (& able to finance ) the same dream. Quite deplorable offer actually, better , surely (?) to join NAS, although a few guys have left us for SAS (shouldn't that be SOS ? ) So, either the package is not as portrayed here ,OR it improves dramatically in year 2, OR they must "know" (?) something we don't.

BluSdUp

16th Nov 2013, 18:54

Good afternoon Captain!
The deal is bad , short term, but they know they are not going Command Irish or Norwegian style the next years , and if they walk straight, they are on a much diffrent scale in a short while and in command in less then 6 years.
Ps , bird told me Sas osl base needs 45 fo. by may.
Sincerely yors B

heavydane

17th Nov 2013, 08:07

This pretty much depends on what one want in life.
Either live above board in Scandinavia, on a seniority list at a lower initial pay or work on a contract, never knowing where You end up, looking over Your shoulder after the taxman earning more money.
I have tried both and know what I want.
Each to his own.

Regards
Heavydane

Hamster88

18th Nov 2013, 00:16

Clearly someone here knows about what is going on in recruiting at the moment. Would you please enlighten us all?

What is the level of requirements that people meet, who is being called for interviews?

Or is it based solely on the descendants of current and former pilots... :oh:
That it ain't transparent and will never be...

Ramrise

19th Nov 2013, 08:10

Hamster88,

your asinine remark about descendants of former or current employees is uncalled for.

During this last round of hiring, one(as far as I know), descendant of an employee has been hired.

Other than that person, the new hires range(hour wise) from appr. 1500 to 10000. First officers to B747 and B777 captains now fly for SAS.

Does that answer your question?

Leave your insinuations somewhere else, they are childish and groundless.

Ramrise

Oh, one more thing: I know several of the interviewers and they are all professionals. Do you really think that they could hold their positions if they played favourites?

Hamster88

19th Nov 2013, 09:22

During this last round of hiring, one(as far as I know), descendant of an employee has been hired.

Other than that person, the new hires range(hour wise) from appr. 1500 to 10000. First officers to B747 and B777 captains now fly for SAS.

Does that answer your question?

Leave your insinuations somewhere else, they are childish and groundless.

I know of several acquaintances who have had a shot at SAS, only due to the fact that they are some of Daddy's boys, or have the right contact within. Not because of there outstanding CV.

From my point of view it is not transparent, and I don't expect to get any invite for an interview. I am fine with that. I am happy to seek my luck elsewhere.

Do you really think that they could hold their positions if they played favourites?
Yes I do! It it is SAS we are talking about :D

hawkeye red

19th Nov 2013, 13:54

@Hamster88....HEAR HEAR....good post !!!

sellect

21st Nov 2013, 11:20

Any news on the rumour that they where going to cut the first steps on the payscale? Or is it still 27k DKK?

Exphil

21st Nov 2013, 15:20

The SAS pay scale will not change until there are a lack of pilots who will work for SAS. Right now seems to be a good time to start since you will be one of the oldest pilots in the company within 20 years. For 12 years there have been no new pilots in SAS. Since april approx 50 new.

truckflyer

23rd Nov 2013, 19:07

"Ramrise"

We already know of the guys from the flight school in Denmark, that was NON TYPE-RATED, and who was selected by SAS. Although in all emails with SAS recruitment they told us that TR on CRJ was requirement that was very strictly followed.

When I showed the article by email, I just got a SMILEY face in response.

So yes, clean and honest Scandinavia, not so much! Just as corrupt as any other country in the world, if not worse, unless you are a Daddy boy, your chances are close to none to get into SAS at this moment.

"Hei Kxxxx,

Takk for det svaret, beklager men det som forvirret meg var en repotasje fra dansk TV 2, hvor de fortalte at SAS hadde ansatt 6 nye piloter direkte fra flyskole i Roskilde uten typerating. Derfor trodde jeg at det kanskje var mulighet aa soke dersom man ikke hadde TR, men jeg husker annonse e-mail skrev at man behovde TR, saa jeg beklager saa meget, men det var dette som forundret og forvirret meg litt.

Link fra TV sendingen er her:

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/video/index/id/67665715/"
(PS video linken virker ikke naa lengre saa langt jeg er klar over det)

Dette var svaret:

Ikke noget problem. ;-)

Med venlig hilsen

Klaus

Team Pilot Recruitment

Tidligere email fikk jeg dette svaret:

Du kan kun søge hvis du opfylder alle betingelser! Vi skriver tydeligt at man SKAL have typerating.

Søger du uden typerating risikerer du at din ansøgning bliver slettet.

Med venlig hilsen

Klaus

Team Pilot Recruitment

Saa med denne bakgrunnen dersom man ikke kan innromme at det er noe raattent i recruitment hos SAS, da er du utrolig naiv og godtroende, og disse emailene med SAS beviser at det er noe som ikke er helt godt der.

Trauste og stabile skandinaver, tror ikke at dette finnes svin blant sine egne desverre. Men noen av oss vet litt bedre!

ReallyAnnoyed

24th Nov 2013, 18:53

Der er nu adskillige af mine bekendte, der har fået jobtilbud i SAS inden for den sidste måned efter beståede prøver, uden at de har nogen familie relationer i SAS. Tankevækkende nok, var der kun 2 af dem, der takkede ja, da forholdene i SAS bare ikke er som de har været. På nogen måde. De har ingen TR, hvilket heller ikke var et krav i den sidste runde.

B-U-S-S

24th Nov 2013, 20:37

Who are those several pilots who have been invited? What experience?

truckflyer

25th Nov 2013, 08:51

ReallyAnnoyed- Why don't you just keep the email in English.

By the way, it is the Danish office of SAS who is behind the recruitment, the email clearly shows something smelly has been going on.

I think during this process and time of actions, it was very clear TR was requirement.

ReallyAnnoyed

25th Nov 2013, 11:40

Hvorfor tale engelsk i en tråd om SAS? Der er minimum 10 fra den danske flyveskole jeg gik på, der blev inviteret til prøver inden for de sidste par måneder. Ingen af dem havde CRJ rating, men mange var kaptajner i lavprisselskaber, hvor majoriteten valgte at blive, da det ikke appellerer til så mange at gå ned til en tredjedel i løn. Slet ikke, når CRJ har slings konstant og random roster, så man ikke er så meget hjemme aligevel. Ingen af de nuværende skippere jeg kender takkede ja til jobtilbuddet. De to, der sagde ja havde intet flyvejob på accept tidspunktet. Ingen af dem havde familie i SAS. Forholdene er bare ikke god nok mere. Desværre. Den mindst erfarne jeg ved af, havde vist 1500-2000 timer på små turboprops. De andre mange tusinde jet timer.

truckflyer

25th Nov 2013, 12:39

Because it is polite to keep thread in English for people reading it, as it has been going in English for some time now.

The Roskilde 6, was offered jobs while still requirement of TR to apply, and they did not have any commercial experience except being flight instructors.

Regarding the conditions etc., this is another matter. SAS is not what it used to be.

The annoying thing here for me, was that I was told to NOT apply SAS, because I did not have CRJ rating, while they did employ guys at this same time with no rating and no multi-crew experience, while this was a clear requirement, that was re-stated by Klaus in his emails to me.

Ramrise

26th Nov 2013, 13:15

As I sense this is going nowhere allow me one last remark.

I have been with SAS for more than 15 years. Personally I cannot wait for us to leave behind all the baggage of yesteryear. The company is in a much better spot today that we were just a few years ago. But we are not out of the woods yet. Sometimes the ugly "resistance to change" shows up, but not nearly as often as before.

I fly with a lot of the new guys as I fly the CRJ. Like I said, I know of 1(one) person what has ben hired, AND, who is the son of somebody already working for the company. One. I believe that all the others, at least on the CRJ, are "clean sheets", if you'll excuse me the wording. They vary in their level of experience, but overall they are experienced.

Of all the things you can blame SAS for today, nepotism is hardly the most prevalent. Can it happen? Sure. Does it happen all the time? No.

And if I am not mistaken, the daughter of Bjørn Kjos also flies for Norwegian. Nepotism? Maybe, maybe not.......

And finally, I find your preoccupation with this amusing. If you want to work for SAS, APPLY!!

If you don't, leave it. I am sure that you have things in your lives that deserves your attention.