Briefing of non UK Examiners - Has anyone done it?

[dream7879]

Hey guys,

Has anyone here done the briefing for non-UK examiners as per IN–2012/153? If so then could you please reply here or send me a private message? I would be very grateful for some help.

Thanks in advance!

[portos8]

I know Bartolini Air in Poland have UK-briefed examinors (two actually) since last month. I believe their HT actually is one but contact them through their website
ATPL EASA Theory EUROPE Poland Multi engine commercial pilot training - Fly in Poland (http://www.flyinpoland.com)

[dream7879]

Thanks for the tip! I will see if I can get hold of them.

If there is anyone here that is personally familiar with the briefing then please let me know.

Cheers.

[mad_jock]

BY all accounts its just pay your money send your docs watch a web thingy and then crack on.

If they had stuck with the EASA forms you wouldn;t have needed it.

And even with the briefing charge etc its still a fraction of the cost to get a TRE approved in some countries compared to doing it in the UK.

[dream7879]

Hmm, correct me if I am wrong but isn't the briefing free of charge?

At least that's what I read from the IN: IN-2012/153: Briefing of non UK Examiners | Publications | About the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=5211)

This is actually one of the questions I wanted to ask the person who has done it before.

[mad_jock]

You have to pay something like 650 quid per examinor and they have to do the briefing before they can do LPC's then send paper work in. You can use any TRE for OPC's.

But as you can get authorisation in some countries for under 10k euros its a no brainer.

Its in the scheme of charges. There is some debate though if its a one off charge, yearly or every time they get there authorisation renewed/changed.

[BillieBob]

There is a fee of £630 for a non-UK authorised EASA examiner to examine in the UK but no fee for the same examiner to examine outside the UK.

[mad_jock]

In the latest scheme of charges its Examine/Instruct.

Thats going to take a very short court case to blow that one out of the water if true.

Restricting the trade of a EU citizen with the right to work in the UK by making them pay a tariff to work.

Anyway the CAA wouldn't have a clue who is instructing or for that matter examining in UK airspace/sim if the license holder wasn't a UK one. The paper work wouldn't go anywhere near them.

What they going to do post a guard at every sim site and check who goes into the sim. H'mm None european airline uses a British based sim do they need to pay up as well.

And making a EASA FI pay to teach PPL I wonder how many are already working "illegally" in the UK having not payed the fee and whats going to happen to their students with the hours since the changes.

[dream7879]

Yes, that is how I understood it also. For examiners instructing-testing outside of UK the briefing is free.

[mad_jock]

I hope its is true thats going to make life a whole lot easier. They have taken the cash off one TRE though.

Does anyone know about using none UK AME's we got the ones affected done before the cut off date along with early LPC's but I haven't started looking at the next ones yet.

[cerealkiller]

Does it mean that if I had my LPC one week a go with a non UK examiner outside UK and now I try to send the SRG 2199 form to licensing department, it will be rejected? Since I know my TRE didn't have any briefing.
Is it really like this?

[mad_jock]

Unfortunatley yes.

There is a field on the form that needed filling in with the briefing date on page 2.

www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG2199FFenabled.pdf

[cerealkiller]

Thanks for the answer.
That's it, tomorrow I will fill the form to transfer my licence to my national caa.
I can't force the chief pilot of the company I am working for to do that briefing just for me.
I am really tired of all these stuff.

[BigGrecian]

It won't change if you transfer your licence to your national CAA - it's an EASA rule so your unless your examiner and you are under the same NAA - the briefing and paperwork will be similar under EASA.

[cerealkiller]

Thanks for your reply BigGrecian and I do agree with you, it's EASA rule. The thing is my colleagues from different NAAs (three different countries) hadn't this problem. Seems like that the only authority that cares about this briefing is UK CAA.

[mad_jock]

It depends on the authority

The fact is that most authoritys are using the paperwork which EASA produced. And the UK CAA decided that they would use different.

Most authorities don't require a briefing.

Mind you who is to say your CP is the one to actually watch the briefing.

If the paper work goes in and its filled out correctly nobody will know.

[cerealkiller]

Thanks for your info, mad_jock, I don't see why UK CAA must always be 'different'. It's only creating troubles all the time.

I see what you mean about the briefing, actually nobody will know. This could help.

[mad_jock]

I know you have more than likely realised but you are in a bit of a limbo just now if your previous LPC is up.

If it isn't your going to have to get something sorted before it is up.

[BillieBob]

The reason that most authorities do not yet require a briefing is because most have not yet implemented the Annexes to the Aircrew Regulation. After this coming April, as those authorities who elected not to rush unprepared into full compliance implement Part FCL, they will require examiners to have been briefed in accordance with EU law.

[mad_jock]

You can say will as much as you like billiebob still not going to happen.


And some of the european TRE's you can sit them in front of it if you like but as they are ICAO 2 or 3 they won't understand a bloody word of it if its in English.

And they really won't care if you have chopped up your A4 bit of paper into bits that fit in your holder. Or any of the other things the UK CAA thinks are very important. Another subset will just say that the UK caa interpretation of the law is wrong and ignore it.

In alot of cases its the pilot that fills the UK CAA form in and the TRE just signs it. You get very good at making sure that its filled in correctly and the dates are right when you start getting checked outside the UK. I have seen forms filled out with boxes signed as complete on exercises which are for 4 engined aircraft on twin engine aircraft.

They would have been better giving a brief for all UK pilots that need to get a check by a none UK examinor. At least there would be a good chance they would watch the brief and understand it and actually be bothered to comply with it.

[cerealkiller]

That's the point: even in the past a lot of authorities, I am talking about medical for example, were understanding in different ways the same rules. This is again the case, where some of them won't change their procedures just to adapt to something they don't really understand or agree with.

And talking about TRE I do confirm, it's much better filling the forms the day before and get there just with that paper to sign: it makes them happy, since they save time, and my life easier!

Fortunately my licence is due to expire at the end of February, so I still have some time to sort it out. I asked him to check the briefing, let's see if he'll be that kind. Otherwise that's it, I'll switch to my national authority, I know for sure they don't require any briefing. Other option would be going to a TRTO in UK and have my revalidation done with a UK TRE, but way too much money, no thanks.

[truckflyer]

I contacted my CAA for licence issue in Norway, and they told me any LPC after 8.th of April 2013, the TRE doing my LPC would require an examiners briefing.

However the day I got the reply from them, the 8.th of February, so 2 months to go, they did not know what this would be, and how it would work! :ugh:

I find that close to incompetence! Btw to put my TR in my licence they charged me over £850!:mad:

[BigGrecian]

Thanks for your reply BigGrecian and I do agree with you, it's EASA rule. The thing is my colleagues from different NAAs (three different countries) hadn't this problem. Seems like that the only authority that cares about this briefing is UK CAA.

With only the UK, Hungary and Switzerland having implemented EASA this is why.

Wait till the other countries implement EASA and I think it will become similar across the NAAs.

[mad_jock]

:D aye right BG it will just be like the English ICAO requirement.

A load of faffing about by the UK CAA and everone else ticking a box that its been done and ignoring it.

The French of course will be creating the briefing in French and you having to have an ICAO 5 or 6 in French before you can get it. Thus blocking any one else having anything to do with French license holders.

[cerealkiller]

That was exactly my point, I am sure my national authority will just introduce a box to tick on the form and that's it. We'll see what happens, in the meanwhile thanks everybody for giving me some hints.

:)