A380 cockpit visit

[jobinvk]

Hi,
Im a new member to this forumn, been a long time reader though.
I have a question about cockpit visits on EK. I will be flying to DXB from JFK on the EK 204, the A380 next month :):). I would really love to have a peek into the cockpit and and shake hands with the great men who fly these beauties. What would you suggest is a good way to secure a chance to step foot in the cockpit? Given that this is a flight from the US, are there different policies that govern such visits? Thanks for any response in advance.

Cheers.

[Eye off the ball]

beauties??? Are you blind?

[OMAAbound]

The best way to try and hand have a look inside is just to ask..... Pretty simple.

If you just say that you would like to have a look in the flight deck on arrival and if they would mind if you did. We used to get plenty of people asking to come and visit during the flight but due to security etc it was never allowed, so we used to say that they could come up at the end of the flight for a look. But it also depends on the crew, some can be really stroppy and say no, or sometimes they can be sound and show you through everything. I was of the latter by the way.

[Iver]

Ask if you can visit the flight deck after landing while boarding the airplane. Remind the same flight attendant during cruise and suggest you will wait for all other passengers to disembark first. If you don't ask, you may not get the opportunity. If the flight attendent says no, show her the receipt for your ticket and tell her you will find other ways to get to DXB in the future. :}:cool:

[givemewings]

ten letters... really?

[Payscale]

Sorry buddy. I'd love to show it but I always say no. Those days have gone. Some nicer guy might let you peek in after landing. Here is one from a google search.....New EK uniform manager? L1120660.JPG | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60897922@N05/6693802277/)

[BigGeordie]

Payscale, if you'd love to show it why do you always say no? If you are having a bad hair day and don't want to end up on the internet you can always say no to photographs but otherwise I don't understand your reasoning.

[OMAAbound]

I could never really see the point in declining! Normally flight deck crew have to wait for Cabin crew to finish before they left. So you were sat there for 15 minutes doing nothing anyway. You might as well be showing people than sitting doing jack.

Anyway, people get the bug when you show them, so the more you show, the better chance you have at early retirement :D

[Landflap]

jobinvk, I do dispare ! Since the time that aircraft were hijacked, blown up, flown into buildings etc,very tight secirity procedures were evolved. Most airlines have a very strict Flight Deck Access policy. Certainly, passenger visits to the Flight Deck at ANY stage would be strictly forbidden. Nice Captains, cosy chats with cabin crew...........good grief ! I too, used (retired)to say " no " everytime because I could do without the visit to the Fleet Office or final warning letter !

[VSsenior]

OMAAbound: Who do you work for?

I agree with OMAAbound, what's wrong with showing someone aslong as everything is completed. I've done the odd one every now and again, mostly kids that are excited, why say no? Common sense is required!

[givemewings]

Landflap, I think you misunderstood. He wants to visit on ground. Which has been up to the skipper's discretion at every airline I have worked for... certainly at EK, they don't seem to have a problem with it. Good PR, I guess....

But what would I know, I only take people up there for visits (on ground) almost every day!!

Edit: For those who don't translate, 'every day' was meant as a smart-arse comment. It's not that often. Adjusted for the 'fun police'... ;)

[Payscale]

If have been here long enough to know not to invite trouble in. There is no policy that allows you to show the flight deck on the ground, so why take the risk. Some guest does something silly and you can kiss your job bye bye.
Is it worth the risk...?

BigG - I wish I could say it was a bad hair day. Fact is I am bald as an egg :8

Wings...do tell me how and where you feel that EK encourages cockpit visits on the ground??

[Landflap]

Wings, would you be so kind as to tell the Head of Security at EK what you have just told all of us on Pprune. Well, on second thoughts, best not !

[jobinvk]

Thanks for the input everyone. Had no intention to start a visit vs no visit thread. However, from a pax bitten by the bug at 5, I really would appreciate if all the pilots said yes :). Its understandable if some pilots were to decline, cos there could be many reasons that a regular pax may not know about.

I have only seen the sophisticated A380 cockpits on Airliners.net, drooling of the day I could see it in person and take a few snaps.

I will heed the advice of many here to sweet talk the purser/ CC to let me have a go at it.

Eye off the ball- Remember the saying "Never judge a book by its cover"

Givemewings and OMAAbound - thanks for the advices.

I would also like to take this opportunity to salute all the pilots, whatever their ride might be :), cos you guys are doing something that many of us dreamed and couldn't achieve.

[a747jb]

jobinvk, just ask, there is no hurt in doing so. I can tell you though is the answer will definitely be no before the flight. Our little beast is a nightmare to get set up and we simply won't have the time. However, by all means ask the purser or a cabin crew member to have a chat with the guys up front and see if they would care. I can tell you that probably 98 percent of guys will be more than welcoming! The other 2 percent have their reasons and those must be respected as well. I do find it a real shame that our industry has guys running so scared that they won't even allow somebody to take a quick look after a flight, but that is where things have gone. EK certainly don't help here, although I can tell you there is nothing in our books that prevent us from allowing folks to take a look (there is also nothing that says we can, hence some of the comments on this board) The one thing you must know though is there is a lot of training going on the JFK sectors, probably not the 204, but you never know. If this is the case, they will be busy debriefing and decline. However, by all means ASK! And ask on the way back as well. Most guys including myself would be happy to show her off (although I do agree with "eye off the ball", she certainly will not win any beauty contests!) Have a great flight!

[givemewings]

I said they "seem to", not that they officially do... but

1) I have never been told it is a no-no
2) CC are told it is allowed, according to the captain's discretion and after the flight
3) I asked the question in security training and they said provided it is not during the flight and the captain gives permission, it is fine
4) there is nothing in the manual specifically banning on-ground cockpit visits.
5) It is often suggested by flight deck crew and pursers for anyone who seems 'keen'on the aircraft, I would assume if it was a definite no-no then they would not offer...?

Nothing I said is any huge secret, my comment was "ask and ye may receive"... no need to get one's knickers in a twist! :8 Plenty more been said on here that is probably best left off public fora but no-one seems to mind about that....

[Payscale]

Give me wings.... If you ask the purser or a security trainer (they are also pursers) I am sure they will say it OK. Its really only the Captain that can say yes or no. After all he is the Boss, contrary to some peoples believe.

You are correct the OMA does talk about pax in the flight deck during ground ops. Nor does it talk about CC sitting in the engines and taking pics. We all know how that went..

747 - Nice post, except the part where you suggest am scared. No Sir. I just dont like pax on the flight deck before, after or during a flight.

I you wrote EVP and asked him, what do you think he would answer. Ideally that it is up to you, but realistically he would probably say No.

Do as you please and enjoy the flight.

[jobinvk]

I am gonna ask right after the first service. Hopefully will get one who's in the 98%.

I know the 380 looks bulky and beluga like on the outside, but the sight of it lifting its own weight upto level 430 is what makes it a real beauty, let alone the almost dead silence :D

[Kapitanleutnant]

Funny how that quote seems to directly conflict with paragraph "a" in that same section.....

Kap

[Captainali]

Best thing to do is ask Cabin crew and they will ask the pilots.

[givemewings]

So then the issue appears to be (again) clarity in the manuals. Suprise, surprise.

How about someone directly ask the big boss then? Get it on paper then no more worrying about it and having to cover one's... rear end :E

I imagine IF it was a real issue, the tons of images of pax in our flight decks (on ground) doing the rounds of Ninjagram, Twipper and BookFace would have got security dept's interest long ago... they do look at that stuff on a regular basis (someone does, anyway) and passes on anything relevant. There is a video which is a bit 'famous' that they could have asked to be removed if they wanted to, they have not so would assume they do not think it any risk to be there. Same goes for all the post-flight PR pics...

So- anyone can tell us for 100% sure it is 'banned'? :)

[OMAAbound]

I once had our company CEO onboard a flight back from JFK, once we landed and were back at gate he came to visit, said hello, whilst we were there a young boy and father asked if they could have a look to which our CEO said "I'll leave you guys to show these two around, have fun" that's enough clarification for me :O

[a747jb]

Hey Payscale,

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were scared, just that EK seems to have a fear culture in it and it makes guys nervous. Was not trying to single you or anybody else out. My apologies.

[White Knight]

I always say 'yes'. And they can take photos...

Payscale - lighten up man:D:D

[White Knight]

So- anyone can tell us for 100% sure it is 'banned'?

Regarding visiting the front on the ground? The answer to that is NO it is not.

[Payscale]

No worries 747 - you are a gentleman.

White Knight - I would be careful making those kind of statements. Afterall you dont make company policy....Eh.....Do you?

[donpizmeov]

OMAAbound,

Aren't you an emptyhad wannabe? So not an EK employee? Hence a random CEO giving the OK may not apply here. Just sayin.

Hope you have a great flight Jobinvk. I am sure the boys will let you have a look if they have time.

The Don

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Always allow visits on the ground/postflight, once all paperwork/checklists done. Me thinks some need to take a chill pill, good grief.

SyB :zzz:

[OMAAbound]

The Don

I don't know where you get the assumption I'm a wannabe? And work for EK? You look like you've lived a sheltered life on pprune?

Good flying everyone

[GuilhasXXI]

What I usually do, being an ATPL student, is taking my medical license with me and show the cabin crew. They take it to the captain and very often the captain invites me to stay the rest of the flight in the cockpit, there are some awesome crew´s outhere :)

[falconeasydriver]

White Knight- If the OMA states that passengers are not permitted on the flight deck doesn't that mean it is prohibited? It doesn't differentiate between on the ground and in the air.

Popcorn and beer in hand.....this should be good:E

[helen-damnation]

Bloody hell guys. TC said you're a manager so why not manage?

If you're comfortable when asked say yes. If not, sorry but not possible.

It's not difficult :sad:

[Landflap]

Blimey, it's getting worse. Sitty, a "good reason" for saying no is that Company policy in any safe airline forbade flight deck visits years ago. Oh yeah, and "any" time means, ..........good grief, why do I bother.(?) Your assessment of a "good captain" discussing flight deck visits just beggars belief. Terrorist Organizations are now planning the easiest hit on aircraft having read the drivle on these pages.

My last company not only banned all visits to thre Flight deck but developed, after much thought, a really involved procedure for use when we wished to leave the flight deck for a "Loo visit". Actually, most of us fell about laughing until, during a CRM refresher, we were shown the 9-11 stuff & reminded that the pilots had their throats cut (probably after cosy chats with the CC for a Flight Deck visit !).

Jvindk. Do not bring very serious security focus on yourself for requesting a flight deck visit ! We (professional pilots), hate the tight policies but we see that the good ole days are way behind us now. I was welcomed on the FD many times in my formative years starting with an extended visit on a BOAC constellation in 1952. My career was greatly helped by multi visits including watching take-off & landings . When I succeeded in becoming a professional pilot, in the days that we could, I extended the same courtesy to many in the hopes that it would enhance career chances & opportunities. I miss those days & yes, Sitty, the "hotties" too. Specially when I asked them if they would like to hold my joy stick.

C'mon chaps. Is this yet another Troll wind-up. Hope so & hope Jvindk cannot be serious. He might be Head of Security, CIA, USA & he can't wait for one of you "good Captains" to say "Yes" !!

[Fear_of_heights]

Then say no to cleaners, refueler guy, gate agents,station managers, engineers etc etc because they don't have access per the OMA....:ugh::ugh::ugh: obviously that part is written for flight operations not ground ones...

[BigGeordie]

Landflap, you do realise we are talking about the aircraft being on the ground, with the engines shut down and the air-bridge attached don't you? The flight deck door will usually be open at that point anyway so any potential bad guys won't really need an invitation. Quite what they will do with a "hijacked" aircraft at the gate I'm not really sure.

[jobinvk]

OMG. where has this thread gone.

Landflap - with respect to your profession, pls don't be soooo paranoid, you had taken this to a whole different level. All I inquired abt was a visit, if possible, on the ground, while disembarking, I know the days of inflight deck visits are over.

[Fear_of_heights]

ex380 Btw the OMA states only engineers to be carried for operational reasons. I I don't remember any time I had to carry engineers that come to check the avionics,cabin,update charts or apply any mels .That part of the OMA is about being with the door armed, if you check it's under flight operations not pre departure,ground or after chocks operations :confused:

[Landflap]

Jobinvk, see what you have done ! Sittingidly back to his former self, self imploding and expressing a complete lack of basic grasp of fundimental. Ok. Last go. The OMA of most airlines, let's exclude EK for a moment, forbids Flight Deck visits by pax AT ANY TIME. Sitty, that means, on the ground or in the air. ACCESS to the FLIGHT DECK will be addressed in other sections but, for example, in my last airline, where huge bullet proof , electronic sophistication meant that we needed to look at the question of "access" by loadsa peolple in different situations. So, ON THE GROUND we had a 'Locked door' and 'unlocked door' policy which meant that the door, once we were on the flight deck was NEVER open. Sitty, that does not mean that it was always CLOSED and LOCKED . Inconvenient to everyone. But, as Sitty is having great problems as he discusses Flight Deck Visits (BANNED) with his crew (Geeees, are you REALLY a Captain ).......Here is the Scenario, thanks to Prune telling us all how Pax friendly & Customer aware EK are.................;

Terrorist A says to Terrorist B " Look mate " (they are Ozzzies)," here is this fabbo pen I have invented. Now, once it gets past Security( not difficult), what you do is to ask for a Flight Deck Visit. Failing success by chaps like wingers who will happily get you on the flight deck BEFORE flight, COSY up to CC (whatever that means) and persistantly ask for a FD visit AFTER landing. 98% of EK good captains will say "YES" and love photos taken too. (well, 98% of the EK good pilots is probably 3% of the total ), B O R T........... the pen, (back to that) when mixed with Gin, ( that you will get loads of from your cosying up to CC), creates this fabbo incendiary device that, after landing, on your flight deck visit and studying photos of the A380 Flight Deck that Sitty provided us with, gives you great positioning opportunities. So, Terrorist B complies, gets his FD vist AFTER LANDING, in the SHUTDOWN PROCESS, places the pen somewhere strategic & poses with Sitty & his hotties.

Breaking news on CNN. BOOOOOOOOOOOM. A380 on the ramp, takes most of the aircraft, airbridge & lots of innocent fellas (is that OZ or Kiwi ?).

Pprune Aircrash investigaters in overdrive studying footage, at least "one hundred times" in order to establish cause..........................Oh dear. I'm off to the pub.

Can we hear from some real EK pilots to tell me that I fell for the troll, again, and not be so fast in removing me & my family from potential EK staff Travel. All sounds very scary to me but then, it appears, I am being foolishly parenoid ! Here it goes again children,...BOOOOOOOOOM !

[Jet II]

I am gonna ask right after the first service. Hopefully will get one who's in the 98%.


You have nothing to lose - despite what it might or might not say in the OMA, visits to the flight deck by passengers are fairly common after landing.

[falconeasydriver]

fear and sitingidly- The OMA simply states - Visits by passengers to the flight deck are not permitted.
It seems to me that this cannot be written in any more clear terms. If it is a passenger and it is a flight deck - the two cannot meet. Bloody simple. If you choose not to adhere to that- so be it, but the OMA states that they cannot visit- and that is that.


Ahhhh yes, there we have it, another easy going anti-establishment attitude from a collegue (ex A380..I'd bet the farm you are from Oz :D).
So sure of his position
"ITS IN THE OMA!!" and yet lacking in any balanced assessment of the intent or spirit of the document, probably because he's been surrounded in his career in EK or elsewhere by trainers and collegues that are also utterly lacking any common sense either.
A quick look at the OMA does indeed back up ex A380's assertion...but his assessment also misses the key contextual point, 8.3 relates to flight procedures, clearly the aircraft, with brake set, engines shutdown, chocks in place and doors open....is no longer in flight:ugh:
QED

[BYMONEK]

A380-800

Technically correct, practically anal! Leave it up to the skipper on the day. Personally, I have no problems with it, as i'm sure many other guys here don't judging by the replies.

If you follow the OMA so rigidly, can I assume you refuse to undertake any Company required duties until STD -60, such as briefing cabin crew for example? Mmm... thought not!

You're not the same guy that re calculated the T/O performance for a 27kg LMC dog are you?

[Dropp the Pilot]

nah... but he may be the one who raised an ASR when final flap was not selected until 1450'.

They walk amongst us.

[Trader]

falcon/bymonk--you of course assume these guys have any common sense!!!! It is like banging your head against a wall--it hurts and gets you no where :)

[slowjet]

Sittingidly, most of us ignore your low level of intellectual grasp but this time, I have to say that your last post beggars belief. No of course terrorists would never think of planting a device. That would be far too clever, eh ? So, lets go back to no more security checks, allow FD visits at ANY time by ANY one because it is absolutely paranoid to think that dearly beloved passengers are ALL good guys ! I was a 'bit' worried by your post (and others) but now, I am SERIOUSLY concerned. Next time you pose with a "Hotty" & that flash thingy goes off................oooooh no, doesn't bear thinking about ! Oh & by the way Wingy, did you pop into your Head Of Security's Office & tell him what you are dong ?.......................Nah, didn't think so. Landflap, wasting your time with this cavaliar lot . I agree that it is unlikely to represent the serious view of EK but just the same old Trollers having some New Year Fun. Chill.

[LearBus]

So for you fellas that are a strict "NO" against such visits....if your children were traveling as staff on a flight you were operating, would you let them visit the cockpit to say hi to daddy?

[glofish]

Some of you guys should also be requested to reapply.

For the PPL, fgs!

[canadansk]

I have always welcomed visitors after a flight AND I have never seen any other Captain say no either :ok:

[Landflap]

There there. Had the last word so pop back into the pram & Mummy will be along with the medication. Thought you had stopped taking it & there was a slight improvement. Rest of EK, are you guys really leting this chap anywhere near a Flight Deck ? Doesn't grasp anything & probably can't grasp the side of the pram...........help him somebody...........PLEASE !

[fatbus]

Just ignore him!

[harry the cod]

Givemewings

Why send off a letter for clarification if it doesn't effect you? It beggars belief at times that people open so many cans of worms with their stupid questions. If you think you're not going to like the answer, don't ask the question. Is it really doing you any harm?

It's the Captain's call, let him make it and stop being such a 'busy body!'

Harry

[Dropp the Pilot]

Try it, you'll like it. 'Tis like a particularly annoying toddler has just left the room.

[givemewings]

Err... first I get flamed for doing something that is apparently against the rules. Then, when I want to find out if it actually IS against the rules, I get criticised for that! Can't win! :ugh:

FYI I am not an idiot, I am not doing as one poster suggested and asking the head of security. I know people here and there and have asked them to look into it and let me know. They are not 'office minions' and have no interest in getting anyone into trouble.

I never said it doesn't affect me, I said I have no influence over the decision. I've copped it before for doing something that was allowed by the captain but that someone else in authority didn't like. So actually I would like to know the official line on this one. Since no one here seems to agree either way how else would you suggest to find out?

If you query something that your fellow crew are doing that may be an issue according to the company does that make you a 'busy body'? Thought not... :hmm:

[harry the cod]

Givemewings

It's not an issue, but I think you're trying to make it into one! If the Captain accepts visits after or even before the flight, so be it. They're the Captain. They are in charge of the aircraft and wholly responsible for they're actions. They are not some 21 year old fresh out of college so please show some respect for the position and experience they hold.

I assume you're cabin crew, right? It's not a safety issue so just do as he says. He's the one who has to answer for his decisions, not you. As for another of your comments, I think you'll find the vast majority of guys posting on this thread have no objection to visits on the ground.... even A380-800 Driver....I think!

Harry

[helen-damnation]

Ouch :ouch: This should be interesting :oh:

[givemewings]

I believe Landflap et al were the ones who made it an issue...

I do respect their position, but on the same note the days of 'the captain is god' are long gone... while you and I both know who is in charge, we have all heard of people losing their jobs for seemingly minor 'offences'... just perhaps a guy or girl out there is skating on thin ice already and one of these 'visits' is all the company needs to send them packing..? I don't know about you but I don't want to play a part in that. It isn't the first time someone has been sacked for something that had previously been allowed (photos being one of them) So, to answer your question about why I want to know... check your PM. Some of the comments I want to make are probably best left off here. Hopefully then you will understand where I am coming from.

[jobinvk]

oh goodness. Never intended this post to be a ground to flame each other. Was a simple question, and a simple answer would have sufficed. But who am I to tell. Thanks for taking this to a whole new level.

[Curry Goat]

Hilarious!!! jobinvk, see what you've started. Suggest you start a new topic and ask what is the colour of black pepper and watch it morph into the drivel and cockfight that it often does here. If you're lucky, it might even turn into a Boeing vs.Airbus fight. Great stuff.:ugh:

[migair54]

I will never say No to someone that wants to visit the cockpit after a flight, specially if it´s a kid or a student pilot, unless we have any good reason like a very short turn around or a technical issue to solve.

Many people love planes and aviation but they are not as lucky as us to be in a cockpit everyday, so I´m really happy to help them and show them the cockpit, for many of them is like a dream to visit us and take a few pics with pilots and in the cockpit, even very famous guys i have had in the cockpit and they have been very nice and thankful for the opportunity given.

I have even had other pilots in the cockpit during flight and the same, they have been very thankful for the ride and the opportunity to take pictures of places that they were going on holidays.

[Payscale]

54 - You obviously dont work for EK or are remembering days gone by..