278.0 Low-level common frequency query

[Lossie23]

Hi all,

I have heard on the grapevine that as a result of a near miss between a Tucano and a GR4 that one of the recommendations was for aircrew to give more details of their low-level routing on 278.0, the low-level common frequency. I gather the procedure was already for an aircraft or formation dropping into l/l to call up on 278.0 and give aircraft type, number of aircraft and some route details, so has the procedure been altered in any way as rumoured above?

Another issue on this point that crossed my mind is that I gather the French AF have a low-level common frequency for use within France and that they are required to make a call every 5 mins on it with an update on their l/l routing. Consequently, if an aircraft for example is dropping into LFA7 and then routing l/l through the Lakes and into Scotland for example the radio call in LFA7 saying entering low-level in LFA7 heading north etc will not have been likely heard up north. So when flying through the Lakes and Scotland other aircraft will not know they are there when they are travelling through those LFAs. Are any calls made en route as in this example or just when dropping into l/l?
Would a call on entering each different LFA make sense or perhaps adopt the French method?

[SASless]

What about a VHF frequency that could be monitored by Civilian traffic as well.....not that there have been an Air Misses between Military aircraft and Civvie aircraft.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

If only there was a system that could interrogate aircraft transponder's and give a real time update of location and height thus greatly increasing SA and minimising the risk of airprox... I should invent one, I could make millions! Civilian aircraft might be interested in using it too!

[Sandy Parts]

and if only the ground-based bits of that system could overcome the laws of physics and see all transponding a/c regardless of height/land screening etc AND if only the airborne users of such a system could guarantee the 'tickling stick' of the other a/c's IFF gave your kit an idea of where it is going despite all their mnvring etc....hmm, perhaps the good old "tell people what you are doing" still has some merit? Also, as recent reports have highlighted, relying on such technology gives an often false sense of security, especially given the number of sorties flown with u/s transponders.....

[deltahotel]

Didn't we used to make calls as we entered/exited LL and moved from one LFA to another?

[teeteringhead]

Didn't we used to make calls as we entered/exited LL and moved from one LFA to another? Indeed so dh, and I would hazard a guess that there are far fewer low flying these days. :(

[Bill Macgillivray]

Yes :ok::ok:

[newt]

Surely now the whole of the UK is a low flying area, there is little need for the added distraction of having to make radio calls whilst descending to low level? A common listening frequency is all thats required for the limited amount of low flying being done these days!

Have not seen a mil jet round here for months!!

[Pure Pursuit]

Wales is a huge issue. Lots of Hawks & the USAF guys seem to be playing over there in ever increasing numbers.

Ideally, allowing the Hawks to start booking into the OTA system would at least reduce the risk of collision. I know that there have been a few close shaves with the Hawks and other pointy types.

Having the low level common freq on UHF might be an issue for the Hawks though, assuming they are using the UHF box for GCI etc.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

Sandy,

TCAS operates independent of ground based equipment hence why airliners love it. Admittedly as it operates in the higher end of the UHF band (1030 & 1090 Mhz) it will be slightly more susceptible to terrain effects however compared to 278 Mhz it really isn't going to make much difference in the real world as they are both going to give you at least line of sight.
The key difference of course is that TCAS will give you an updated air picture of transponding aircraft every second or so where as a 'I'm entering LFA X at 7 miles a minute and could be almost anywhere soon' is somewhat less useful. As far as the maneuvering bit goes, well unless you are going to broadcast your intentions every 30 seconds or so (not much of a 'quiet frequency' then!) TCAS will be much more useful than the occasional blind call.

Personally I cant recall ever flying without an unserviceable mode 3 IFF so maybe its a problem with specific platforms? Our Mode S exemption will run out before long so you wont really have the option of cruising around UK airspace without some form of squawk.

Having operated a military aircraft at low level with TCAS I can assure you that as long as you use it as a SA tool and turn off the conflict resolutions it is invaluable in minimising airprox with squawking aircraft. And in this humble operators opinion all LF aircraft should have at least a functioning mode 3 IFF.