BEA Trident incident in the Epsom hold early 1970s.

[None of the above]

I realise that this is something of a long shot, but I’ll give it a go.

In the early 1970s I was an ATCA at Heathrow when the pilot of a BEA Trident in the Epsom hold reported that he believed his aircraft had been struck by something. Initially he did not offer any thoughts as to the exact nature of the suspected collision. A little later he did report that the autopilot disengaged itself and he had to consider the possibility that his aircraft had struck a light aircraft.

The Trident landed safely and without further incident, and a number of ATCOs went to have a look at it when parked behind Terminal Two. One described marks on the leading edge of the starboard wing looking as though someone had ‘run a rasp along it’.

Several more ATC staff, including me, went to see the aircraft and I recall that there were three distinct marks on the leading edge. The middle mark was about eighteen inches long with a downward turn at one end. Probably best described as a ‘tick’ on its side. The marks on either side were less severe scuffs about six inches long. All three marks were contained within a space of about four or five feet.

There were no other aircraft in the hold at the time and, as far as I can recall, the Trident had not lost any part of its structure, so quite what had happened was, at least for the time being, something of a mystery.
I assume that some sort of reporting action would have been taken but I don’t recall ever hearing an explanation or reading the result of an investigation.

Which brings me back to my first point. It is a very long shot but does anyone know what happened to cause the damage to the Trident?

Over to you, Gentlemen.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I recall about as much as you, but heard no more about it.

Bren

[None of the above]

I recall about as much as you, but heard no more about it.Yes, usually something of that nature would have generated some sort of investigative action, wouldn't it?

Perhaps it didn't meet the requirements for a notifiable accident. I think that MORs had yet to come in, so it wouldn't have been trapped by that process.

Another of life's little mysteries. Thanks HD

[B Fraser]

It could have been a met balloon as there are a couple of launch sites within 20 miles. The balloons had a metallic mesh radar reflector which could account for the scrape marks. The box at the bottom where the electronic wizardry is housed was polystyrene. A nigel (an ex Trident driver as it happens) did comment to me many years ago that he nearly hit one after departing Heathrow.

[None of the above]

It could have been a met balloon as there are a couple of launch sites within 20 miles. The balloons had a metallic mesh radar reflector which could account for the scrape marks.Ah, that's a possibility I hadn't considered. Despite their fairly flimsy construction, an encounter with one isn't going to pass unnoticed at 200kts+.

Thanks Mr B.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

There were a couple of other similar incidents. One, involving a DC-9 which got close to an orange disc at OCK. The Captain filed it as an airmiss as he thought that filing it as a UFO would have little effect. It was never solved. Second was an Alitalia flight which reported a missile shaped object. Again, nothing further heard.

[ZeBedie]

Didn't someone once report an airmiss with a 'dustbin', thought to be a met balloon payload?

[dixi188]

Don't forget the Pink Floyd pig.

[scotbill]

Filed an airmiss on a met balloon myself once - in the Munich hold. No action resulted.

On the other hand one of BEA's characters (allegedly) filed an airmiss on a Grand Piano. Apparently it had 3 wheels locked down and 20 degrees of lid selected.
Those were the days.

[Flitefone]

I was also on duty in the tower that day and with others went to the apron to look at the damage. Met the crew. I think it was mid 1971. On the RT at the time of the incident they were very alarmed, " I think we have just hit something" Everyone was very perplexed.

I remember the scrape marks on the fuselage above the cockpit and further aft, and the gouges along the leading edge of one wing, yes just like a rasp had done it. I believe the incident occured at FL70.

Had always understood the aircraft hit a loose met balloon that was trailing steel cable. One of those incidents that disappeared into the anals of time without much fuss..

As for the Pink Floyd Pig, that apparently led to one of my favourite ever RT calls " London, you're not going to believe this, but we have just passed a pink pig"! I didnt hear that one at the time, but it became something of a legend. It happened at around the same time as the Trident incident, but the two are not related.

[None of the above]

Thanks for that Flitefone.

I wasn't aware of, or had forgotten about, the marks above the cockpit.

Given that it was in the Epsom hold, which was replaced by the Wisley hold c1972, that would help to pin it down; 1971 sounds about right.

[B Fraser]

I don't know the actual material used in the line from the radio sonde to the balloon but the sonde was pretty light. Half a kilo would be about right. A piece of string would have been sufficient and a heavy wire would have slowed the ascent by quite a degree. It would have been simpler to put less hydrogen in the balloon.

A common trick was to overfill the balloon so it would go up quickly, burst at a lower altitude and the staff could clock off earlier.


Not that it ever happened of course :E

[betterfromabove]

Following up on a NOTAM, had an interesting conversation a few weeks back with one of the met research guys who set off these wx balloons.

He was saying that they know with quite some precision where and when the packages from these balloons will fall, yet what is odd :sad: is that the NOTAM's only show, with a wide circle where the balloon lifts from....

Kinda odd, non....?

Has there ever been any debate about this or has it been taken up with the AIS/CAA? Sounds like could be easily fixed. It's pretty interesting to know where the thing is going down as well as up, right?!? And at least on the way up, you've got this big piece of latex doing its thing.....on the way down, it's a little box of stuff falling at terminal velocity :eek:

[treadigraph]

Cor, there's a sleeping memory awakened! Nothing to do with the Trident incident above, but must have been late 1970s when about 14, I found small parachute, 3 or 4 feet diameter, on a local common with, as I recall, a metal mesh object made of three intersecting diamonds - presumably some sort of radar reflector. Don't think the reflector was very big, maybe two feet high.

Think it was on Riddlesdown Common which is about 5 or 6 miles west of the Biggin hold. Disposed of the metal but kept the 'chute for a while.

[B Fraser]

Yep, that's a pretty good description. No sign of a polystyrene cube about 10 inches along each side ?

[treadigraph]

Can't recall any polystyrene but then 30 odd years had all but erased the memory.

Odd how some things remain clear in you memory (or so you fondly imagine!) and others fade and yet can still pop up with the right stimulus!