Value of a Ground Engineer

[smujsmith]

I know, it sounds like 'touting for a back slap', but, I know that there are lots of pilots/ nabs/ aircrew who, like me, have left the service and a a vast resource of wisdom regarding RAF development over the years. I've read lots of posts regarding crews ( including navigators) mucking in and doing prop changes etc "down route" in years gone by, but as a bloke who did over 5000 hours "hammock time" on the Hercules fleet in the 80/90s, I would be interested to hear if Ground Engineers were really a welcome addition to the route, or did they create a problem in any way ? I'm sure there's a good story or two out there, and I can certainly proffer a few of my own experiences. Of course I would include the chaps who started it all, the Crew Chiefs of the V force. I'm a new poster so please be gentle, I'm only a bloke with a hammock!!

[Chris Griffin]

Along with the svc(s) they were absolutely vital; not only work wise but socially too. I now count many many GEs as personal friends and keep in touch fairly regularly. Along with the vast majority of homebase engineering support, the GE's exemplified utter professionalism. The downtime stories, however, achieved almost legendary status worthy of going into print. Generally larger than life characters that made the job enjoyable. Enough sunshine blowing.

Regards to all
Chris

[SASless]

I would say about a Pound and Sixpence.

[Top Bunk Tester]

Always useful if you forget to take the chocks or if you need the safe working load of a set of servicing steps tested to their limit ;)

[SVK]

As I tell them on a regular basis, I consider GEs as a whole to be the most professional, experienced and capable guys and gals. Without a doubt they are the hardest partying and hardest working group who should serve as an inspiration to the younger trades.

It's always 'Jobsdone' rather than 'Jobsworth'.

I even forgive them for the minor transgressions that occasionally occur down-route.

Frankly they are wizards with magic spanners.

---End of Sunshine Rant---

[Dengue_Dude]

There are one or two notable exceptions to that assertion, but we all knew who they were. RE, BH & TAPS to 'name' but some.

Mind you, it WAS the exception that proved the rule, the GEs and SVC were first class and I, for one, was most happy that they were there. Kept my gloves a lot cleaner too!!

[Mal Drop]

I have very fond memories of time away with GEs, including a fairly long jaunt to Malaysia with one 'Smudge" Smith who sported a sunbathing green turtle badge on his flying suit.

Every GE I flew with was tremendous value for money and a welcome part of the crew - some have become route legends when recalling 'epics'.

Good to see you are still knocking around Smudge!

[isaneng]

Hmm, Smudge 'falling out of hammock' Smith on Malaysia trip..? Had to crack the DFs for medicinal purposes....?

[smujsmith]

Hmmm,

More memories to contemplate. Keep well Mal !!! You may remember the pink hat better than the turtle ! I never fell out of an "ammock" in my life Isaneng. But may have left that impression :sad::rolleyes: I apologise to professional flyers for interrupting any flow on Fast jets etc, in actual fact some of my happiest memories of my time in the RAF concern 56 Squadron in Cyprus and Q-A- VUL !!!

[Warmtoast]

Ground Engineers (and Mechs and Fitters) were a godsend if you needed a double engine change in the middle of Africa - at Entebbe actually - as seen here with screen-grabs from my cine camera dated April 1960, 53-years ago!.

Chief Tech in charge of the ground crew named Ben Mansley (I think).

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/DoubleEngineChangeatEntebbe-April19.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/DoubleEngineChangeatEntebbe-Apri-3.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/DoubleEngineChangeatEntebbe-Apri-2.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/DoubleEngineChangeatEntebbe-Apri-4.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/DoubleEngineChangeatEntebbe-Apri-5.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/DoubleEngineChangeatEntebbe-Apri-7.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/DoubleEngineChangeatEntebbe-Apri-6.jpg

[Lima Juliet]

Always useful to take on the other's ugly fat mate...:E

[hunterboy]

Warmtoast any chance that your cine film will be on YouTube any time soon? Looks fascinating....

[Kitsune]

A Ground Engineer was absolutely crucial to determining the likelihood of whether a slight weep from the Gitz seal on #1 was really worth an engine change in Nassau...:D

[Pontius Navigator]

Problem for many V-force crew chiefs was they were the only non-commissioned crew man. On landing the CC would be just that with the crew providing the semi-skilled labour. On some trips to unsupported bases we used to take two.

Even on supported bases support could be pretty flaky. At Akrotiri (Canberra days) our CC got help from ex-V-force mates in the mess but even so we got involved in removing tail cones, pulling jet pipes to get at fire tec boxes. Made a nonsense of the servicing certificates and I'm fairy not engines.

Once at Offutt, despite it being a supported base, we had a really sooty flown out. Never forget his name. I can just imagining the recruiting sergeant marking his card as he left the office - 'Right, Hammer, ideal for engines.'

[Hockham Admiral]

The Belfast was probably the best example of an aeroplane that needed a permanent GE on board!
In HeavyLift days, when we were going somewhere really outlandish, we would often take Mike McKeever. He was the most all-round experienced GE I ever flew with; nothing ever fazed him and he always came up with a solution!:D:D

[glum]

I'd suggest that todays crop of GE's on the Tristar and VC10 fleet can hold their heads up with the best.

Nursing very aged fleets, their engineering decisions don't only encompass the possibility that the weep will become a nasty leak before the next landing, but there's also a guy upstairs with limbs missing who REALLY needs to get home tonight... :D

[OldNavigator]

I spent 14 years on C130 then 6 years on VC10 working with GEs.

I have many happy memories of flying with, working with and socialising with true professionals who kept some ageing aircraft flying so that we could do a job.

I will never forget the excitement of Mick Libby finding a cowboy outfit shop in Nashville - the cowboy boots and stetson looked great with his flying suit

:D:D

[smujsmith]

Ahhhhh,

Mick Libby, now there's a name to conjure with. Great bloke, outlandish personality, and, failed flight engineer no less. But he encapsulated everything a GE could hope to be.

[haltonapp]

I do remember on C130's at the end of a week det to Pau in the 70's, that's in France for those who don't know. The GE wanted to put the aircraft tech for a hydraulic leak from the rudder booster pack, it only leaked when the flaps were extended. The captain said to him "I put the aircraft unserviceable, you're here to fix it, we're going home". Exit GE with tail between his legs, he did try to drop the captain in it when back at base but he got no support! We did, in those days, have a good few GE's with a time lock on their wallet! Where is the three Irish GE's, Paddy, Mac and Ernie. The "is" is intentional, as those in the know will understand!

[ksimboy]

Smuj , I have many happy memories of the GE's during my time on Albert, so many potential "red top" scandal headlines if the truth ever came out from those days. I just wonder if your mother ever flew on one of the families day trips we used to do in those happier times?

[OmegaV6]

Smudger .. just why is my over-riding memory of Mick Libby encapsulated in just four words ..

Dakar - White trousers - Nightfighter

:) :) :)

[ksimboy]

That didn't take long to emerge lol.

[OmegaV6]

That didn't take long to emerge lol.

About 90 seconds if memory serves ... but Mick was livid for a quite a few more hours !!!

:) :) :)

[ksimboy]

Nothing finer than an angry Libby. Happy memories of great times with great people.

[Top Bunk Tester]

First real introduction to GEs was on my States trainer, Libby & Tetlow. St John's and the Cotton Club. Got a four day layover in Baltimore when the Electric Sporran cracked the nose leg on landing. You always knew it was going to be a great route if Libby was aboard. Then lots of raucous kebabs when he got posted TASF Akrotiri. :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

I think I can name names, 30 year rule and all that.

We used to take one Taff Skuse on our rangers. I first came across Taff on our Far East det. Later he was the chief involved in the tail pipe removal etc at Akrotiri - hot, dirty, and unrewarding (small loa).

When we went to the States things improved drastically. The bit that failed was a peace-time no-go. The alternating flashing warning didn't flash. This delightful little box was easy to access and impossible to repair; we had to wait for one to be shipped from UK.

Now I have always harboured the suspicion that he brought the u/s box with him from UK.

A bit like AEOs that had a spare set of blown TRU fuses in their nav bags.

[haltonapp]

The ultimate test of a GE, would you buy a secondhand from him or would you let your daughter marry one!!!

[fergineer]

Ah the three Irishmen, Libby, Cumberlidge the list goes on and on great times with some great guys.

[woptb]

Libby & the 'one for the ladies' incident - hideous to behold !

[smujsmith]

I knew that Mike Libby would raise a few smiles. I also believe that many of you 'winged wonders' would have memories of routes flown, delays and happy times. The bonus for me was always that I was accepted as part of the team. I also agree that the SVCs added to and were worth their place on the aircraft. My happiest memory from my time as a GE was a trip to Hong Kong in Albert:

From the start it was one of those trips where everyone on the aircraft just ' got on ' ! Pretty standard trip, night stop Akrotiri, night stop Bahrain, night stop Penang, night stop Hong Kong ( 24 hour delay due to airport strikes), night stop Penang ( oops bloody prop GITZ seal blows, No3 ) 3 days later depart for Bahrain. Number 2 engine blows GITZ and we have to wait for repair yet again. 3 days later we make Akrotiri for our "last night kebab" and back to Lyneham a few days late. Walk in to GEs section to log in at around 0400 to find I'm outbound to MPA at 1000 hours that same morning.

Now anyone want to query hammock time for a GE ? All I can say is that sometimes the mileage went beyond the capacity. Most of the crews I had the pleasure to fly with understood that. By the by, I believe that when I was a GE there were 120 constituted crews across the squadrons at Lyneham. We had 32 GEs during that period. I reckon if you want to clock up the hours, the GEs Did around 3 for every 1 the aircrew did (note not 4 to 1). I never, ever, felt out of place, unwanted or "surplus to requirements". And have many happy memories of my time on Albert as a GE, and, will always respect the proffesionalism of the drivers, navs, engineers and loadies who made all of this happen. Great times indeed.

Smudge

[ExAscoteer]

I always felt that GEs and SVCs were valuable members of the Crew.

As were ATSy.

An order of magnitude more valuable than bloody movers!



Mick Libby, now there's a name to conjure with!

[engtechp]

We took Mrs T to meet Ronald in DC. The crew were invited to a bash at the British Embassy. I was chatting with my dear Captain JJ, a great pilot and true gentleman. The British Embassador came up to us for a chat and he asked JJ what my job was, he replied "If I break the aircraft he fixes it, if he can't fix it he tells me if I can fly it, if he says yes, I do, if he says no, I don't".

I met lots of characters, worked more hours than I care to remember and did a lot of silly things but I'm glad I did it. ;)

[12 twists per inch]

I always used to say I was the toilet emptier - shook less hands that way! I had a blast as a GE with some great crews, some mad individuals and some very dodgy escapades. Best techy job ever!

[OmegaV6]

The good ones were phenomenal, both professionaly and socially .. I learnt one hell of a lot from them ...... but the bad ones were appalling...

Like a certain "gentleman" I had a serious argument about engine blanks/intake inspections with .... he failed to realise until quite late that even a complete idiot of a FE like me could actually look at the ground and see pristine snow from overnight ... and not a trace of a footprint or ladder mark !!!

Fortunately the "system" managed to get rid of the bad ones mostly, but a very few got through somehow ... :(

[isaneng]

Not bad Omega, for a guy whose preflight was coffee and a donut.....

[OmegaV6]

Not bad Omega, for a guy whose preflight was coffee and a donut.....

That's why I was eating and drinking .. you were out in the cold getting wet ... perks of being the instructor .. :) :) :)

[kageboy]

The C130 GE has always been the bold and beautiful guy who generally keeps out of the way down the back about 4 foot off the freight bay floor in order to give the truely best RAF Pilots as good chance to produce a rile smile as he thinks he is about to beat the GE with a Snag! Alot of the crews think the GE is sleeping down the back but really he is re-booting his computer like brain - Literally on the C130J!!!
However these days as a GE the sleeping is a thing of the past as he generally enters into that 'Top Gun' walk out to the aircraft as it is war, more war and yet more war he does so Door standing (or sitting in some cases) is his bag and hence the more he has to rely on his extension lead(Oops did I say that) for the lap top to boost his brain!
Sleeping trips are far and few these days and if they do they are generally long as the aircraft pushes on further and further each day! Oh to save money!
Oh Top Bunk Tester you were an unsung hero once before you stepped into the breach!:= SPHLC obviously has gone underground but I am sure he will no doubt pop up to pass out a few humourous GE stories.
Hello to all the other GE's reading this :ok:

[tommo wales]

Hey smudge, good old mick, loved his Marcos, never seen such a clean car. Remember El Centro Tom Thomas