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tmoriarty
8th Jan 2013, 09:54
Hi again

As some of you know, I'm researching a BBC documentary about jets in the Cold War - thanks for all your help so far. One area I can't seem to find much about is interceptors of the Cold War. I know the planes, and the rough outline of what they did, but have there been any books written on the subject that go into detail about the various missions, states of readiness, training, bases, close shaves, etc? And are there many ex- or current interceptor pilots out there?

Any book recommendations/stories/tips gratefully received.

Cheers

Tom
[email protected]

Lightning Mate
8th Jan 2013, 09:58
And are there many ex- or current interceptor pilots out there?

Probably quite a few of us.

If there is anything you would like to know about the Lightning maybe I can help.

ORAC
8th Jan 2013, 11:06
Try here (http://www.lightning.org.uk/wiwol.html), here (http://www.raffca.org.uk) and here (http://www.******************************/lightning/memories.php) (for Hunter, Javelin, Lightning and Phantom.)

Don't get diverted into UFOs by the tale of Captain William Schaffner (http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/yorkslincs/series1/alien-abduction.shtml)

I'd suggest getting in touch with Chris Gibson, details as below.

You might also want to get hold of the accident report on the mid air collision between Aztec G-BAJX of Lease Air and Binbrook Lightning XP659 on 7th Jan 1976 (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1976/1976%20-%200070.html).

Secret Projects: Battle Flight: RAF Air Defence Projects and Weapons Since 1945 by Chris Gibson (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15716.20;wap2)

RAF Air Defence Projects and Weapons Since 1945 by Chris Gibson

Battle Flight has gone to the printer and as promised, a chapter summary.

Battle Flight – RAF Air Defence Projects and Weapons

Chapter 1: X-Rays and the Evolution of the Threat
How the threat from the UK changed from 1000-bomber raids by Bulls to Badgers and Bears with free-fall nuclear bombs and stand-off weapons before moving to the ballistic missile. Post-Polaris the air-breathing threat changed to a dedicated maritime strike force of Backfire and Badger to attack NATO lines of communication.

Chapter 2: Lethal Confetti – Air Defence Artillery
The postwar development of British AA guns with the quest for more height, accuracy and rate of fire. Dr Beeching’s (yes, him) report on anti-aircraft guns and new rocket weapons such as Typhoon and High-Flyer. Also looks at Wallis’ Green Lizard and how the ever-more complex fire-control systems made the SAM a more effective alternative.

Chapter 3: Caelum Tuemur - We Watch over the Skies
Postwar early warning radars and plans from the Type 14 to the Type 93 and how they fitted into the air defence plans such as ROTOR, AHEAD and Linesman. Radar projects such as Red Cabbage, Blue Joker, Wealth, STAR, BMEWS and over-the-horizon techniques.

Chapter 4: We’re not Defending the Bloody French! - SAMs
Surface-to-air missiles - Bloodhound in its Mk.2, Command-guidance and nuclear guises, the origins of Blue Envoy and the hearing aid computer, Land Dart and why it didn’t prosper. The Stage II and III projects. A look at the post-Bloodhound projects such as FMS, SAM-72, SAM-3 and Guardian.

Chapter 5: Catch a Falling Star – ABMs
The fruitless search for a dual-purpose weapon. The basic systems based on Stages 1½, 1¾ and II. The bespoke ABMs such as Project 29 (the real one, not the one based on Bloodhound) and 36. Comparisons with US experience with ABMs. Helmet and Gerry Bull. ATBMs – Wolverine and how pushing the envelope killed British SAM projects.

Chapter6: Achieving a K-Kill -Weapons against Aircraft
Development of interceptor armament including the Aden, recoilless guns and air-to-air rockets. Nuclear weapons against aircraft, how the Air Staff calibrated their model and why such weapons fell from favour. Tossing Red Beards at Bears and the Air Staff’s efforts to acquire Genie. What would replace Red Top and the quest for more firepower leading to the flying battleship.

Chapter 7: Force Multipliers - Top-ups and Tip-offs
Elint types from the Washington to the Air Seeker via the Comet, Nimrod and VC10. Development of in-flight refuelling from the origin of the role with Cobham’s prewar work, the wartime proposals for the Pacific theatre, the postwar adoption by the RAF with Valiants then Victors and VC10s. Brief history of the V1000. The rise of the multi-role aircraft including the Super-tanker and BAe Woodford’s MRSA proposals based on Airbuses, FIMA and the LARC. The 50 year saga of the RAF’s search for an AEW type, Fishpond, Netcentric warfare in 1944, C-97AEW, Andover AEW and ASR.387, ASR.400, E-2K, HS.748AEW and the Nimrod debacle, plus Woodford’s MRSA and LARC again.

Chapter 8: The 1950s Terminal Event - Sandys, F.155 and Under-the-Counter Fighters
Why Britain had a fighter gap in the early 50s, the British Volksjäger, mixed thinking on powerplants. Proactive air defence – Warton’s intruders; the P.2 and P.12. The 1954 Air Defence Working party, the RAE’s Schräge Musik fighters, and the origins of Sandys’ thinking. Albion’s Foxbat, the F.155 juggernaut and how its end came with a beeping sphere and the Sandys Terminal Event. How the under-the-radar P.17 led to the under-the-counter P.22 fighter from Warton and thus prompted the rise of the mud-mover.

Chapter 9: Two Decades of Certainty - 1957 Onwards
The Admiralty lead the field in fighters while the mud-movers muscle-in on air defence with the rise of the multi-role fighter such as Warton’s PL.1. The threat changes from east to north prompting a change in air defence strategy. How Sandys did us a favour by clearing the decks. The Phantom CAP fits the GIUK Gap. The 1964 Air Defence Working Party report lays the foundation for the air defence systems we have today. The Jones fighter and how the Italians helped it evolve into the Tornado ADV we know today.

Chapter 10: Tornado ADV - A Merely Symbolic Force or Flying Battleship?
The alternatives to, and evolution of, the Tornado ADV and the threat from America. Why the RAF bought the Tornado ADV rather than the Tomcat or Eagle. The Phantom options and the development of, and alternatives to, Skyflash. Knife and fork prototypes from France and the Tornado for the Force de Frappe – how the French could have saved the entire MRCA project and the ACF could have kept the Bears at bay. Stretching the Tornado ADV.

Appendix – Operational requirements and Staff Targets

Fox3WheresMyBanana
8th Jan 2013, 11:13
May I recommend an ex-colleague's book?

The Phantom in Focus: A Navigator's Eye on Britain's Cold War Warrior: Amazon.co.uk: David Gledhill: Books

He hangs around here too.;)

Treble one
8th Jan 2013, 11:41
These guys are absolutely great blokes, very approachable, and still have 2 Lightning F6 fighters in taxiable condition (well one, but they are working on the other one...).

They will also have a massive archive of probably very rare Lightning footage on DVD.

You should definately get in touch, and I'm sure that they will be only too happy to have a chat.

Lightning Preservation Group Based at Bruntingthorpe Airfield near Leicester (http://www.lightnings.org.uk/)

PS They have recently started to perform simulated Q scrambles from their refurbished Q shed, which is something you may want to film for your programme. Unfortunately, we enthusiasts can't persuade them to take off at the end of their run.

The Lightning is a truly awesome aircraft, even nowadays, and it will make your ears bleed and the ground shake for you.

ORAC
8th Jan 2013, 11:50
F-4 Phantom: A Pilot's Story by Robert Prest.

Famous (infamous?) by reputation, if not fact, for never mentioning the word navigator. :E

N2erk
8th Jan 2013, 22:04
My pocketbook edition has that N-word, navigator, on page 80 and 89!
Another suggestion might be "Never in Anger" by Bugs (Anthony) Bendell.

The B Word
9th Jan 2013, 06:17
Tornado F3? Try this book and website: F3 BOOK - TORNADO F3 TORNADO F3 TORNADO F3 (http://www.tornadof3.com/f3-book.html)

:ok:

Squirrel 41
9th Jan 2013, 22:49
Spot on, B Word - Reuts' book is excellent. I must get him to sign mine if I ever run into him again...

S41

Sleeve Wing
10th Jan 2013, 09:55
Once again, I fear, the role of the Royal Navy during this period is conveniently side-lined by our light blue friends.
The FAA had some pretty useful aircraft operational at this time as well, although most were rapidly-convertible multirole. Don't forget the Sea Vixen, Scimitar and the F4, just to mention a few.
They might not have been as 'hairy arsed' as the Lightning but, at usual, were quietly getting on with the job.
Protection of the Fleet as well as international support eg. Suez. Malaya, Falklands, were only a couple of the roles competently undertaken by Naval pilots. The RAF often couldn't stretch that far either because of geographical inconvenience or 'short legs'. The Cold War didn't just happen along the German border.

I don't want to inflame the perennial argument aboout whether the RN should operate aircraft or not but I am acutely aware of the demise that has subsequently befallen this often unheralded fighting force. A little off-thread but perhaps our sparring partners should also take note of the relentless advance of the robot ! :ok:

ORAC
10th Jan 2013, 10:00
In which case, instead of bitching and moaning, how about answering the man's question and provide a few relevant FAA book references ?

The Fleet Air Arm Officers Association (http://www.fleetairarmoa.org)

Sleeve Wing
10th Jan 2013, 18:42
>>>instead of bitching and moaning,<<<

Thank you for your kind observation, ORAC. I'm assuming that, with the stratospheric number of posts you have made, that you may well had a bit of a bitch and moan yourself.

But, of course, the concept of this forum is not to get personal but to contribute usefully to the debate.

OK, so I commented on the fact that, in some minds, there is only one Air Force. Fact.
All I was doing was, yet again, proffering a point of view which in the future will doubtless also be taken up by the Army !

Still I have no wish to start a Third World War and I won't be countering any further barbed remarks you may feel you have to make.

However, on one point you are correct; stick to the question.

So, for starters, how about "Wings over Suez" Brian Cull.(Grub Street), "Fly Navy.The View from the cockpit. 1945-2000" Charles Manning. (Leo Cooper) and the numerous publications in connection with the Falklands Air War ? ;)

Pontius Navigator
10th Jan 2013, 19:30
international support eg. Suez. Malaya, Falklands, . . . The Cold War didn't just happen along the German border.


The problem is one of definition. Although the operations you cite happened during the Cold War and with Interceptors that were available during the Cold War they must be irrelevant as far as the Cold War itself.

Then the OP talks of Cold War Interceptors, well the majority were not on the IGB so really he would seem to be looking at Cold War Interceptors not in Germany which tends to leave Air Forces in SACEUR and SACLANT AOR.

So perhaps you should be offering FAA activity in relation to Soviet activity. Now we know that the SNAF reacted to Allied Naval exercises but it was the role of the RAF to react to LRAF and SNAF intrusions into the UK ADR was an operational role, a subtly different role from air defence of the fleet during exercises.

Now if you can point to any Naval air defence operations then that would be different.

ORAC
10th Jan 2013, 19:32
So, for starters, how about "Wings over Suez" Brian Cull.(Grub Street), "Fly Navy.The View from the cockpit. 1945-2000" Charles Manning. (Leo Cooper) and the numerous publications in connection with the Falklands Air War No, no, you miss the point - this is about Cold War Interceptors.

Might I suggest someone has to raise the whole issue of the Through-Deck Cruisers and the evolution of the SHAR? The threat in the Bear D and the "Hack the Shadow" before the targeted for the sub-launched missiles?

The whole SACEUR/SACLANT division of command and the "chop" of the LU Sqns to SACLANT at the relevant order?

The whole GIUK gap issue including SOSUS?

Or are you really that insular or ignorant?

Geehovah
11th Jan 2013, 17:29
Tom, you have a copy of Phantom In Focus on the way. It ticks many of your boxes.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/FinalCover.jpg

Lima Juliet
11th Jan 2013, 18:41
A nice self portrait...:ok: