Where should Avalon Airshow go?

[Critical Reynolds No]

Hi all,
As we gear up for 2013's installment of loud music, commentator ramblings, traffic, flies, dust, mud, you get the picture ....Apparently 2015 might be the last at Avalon and was wondering where should it be held in the future? What would be a suitable alternative in Australia that would please both trade & punter attendees?
Thoughts?
CRN

[AussieNick]

What the go with not having it at Avalon?

[Captain Sand Dune]

Politics. (gotta write more stuff in here otherwise it won't accept it:yuk:)

[Sunfish]

Cairns in September.

[baswell]

Forrest. Big runway, plenty of space to pitch a tent.

[ozbiggles]

Nobody is forcing you to go...and based on that contribution better for all if you don't.

[metalman2]

If it had to go anywhere I reckon Temora would be a top spot, it's no Oshkosh but its not bad for our small population
Met

[Old Akro]

Avalon is for defense sales. The rest is window dressing. If it becomes just an airshow without the defense heavy metal, then it can go anywhere. If the heavy metal & defense exhibitions stay, then it must be Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra.

If 2015 is the last year, that might co-incide with RPT ambitions of LINFOX. I think the only other airports that will take heavy metal, but not disrupt RPT will be Military ones. Richmond, East Sale, Williamtown. Woolongong might be an outside chance.

Its hard to see where you'd put a display "box" at Richmond. Williamtown & East Sale are a long way to transport VIPS (the tender is out for buses & limos for government VIPS at Avalon - you should see the list!). Woolongong would be good except the runway is probably 300 - 400 m short.

The other option would be a tag team with 2 airports. Moorabbin / East Sale or Bankstown / Richmond. Put the military heavy metal at the military airport and everything else at the civilian one and do flying displays over the civilian one.

Or it could get too hard. I have no idea of the numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me if the civilian & military parts are each not viable as separate entities.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Learmonth, Curtin, Scherger? Big runways there!:E:}

[Di_Vosh]

ozbiggles

Bit harsh there, mate :)

Gotta agree with Cynical Pilot, that Avalon puts on a pretty crap airshow. I've seen two Avalon airshows, and a couple from overseas (so not very many in total). Farnborough was the best by a mile, and both the Avalon ones I saw were pathetic, IMHO.

My opinion is that the only people who think that Avalon has a great airshow are people who haven't seen how it is done overseas.

DIVOSH.

(and I wont be going to this one).

[rocket66]

Terrible to say it but I do agree with Di Vosh, after seeing Oshkosh nothing will compare. Its not through lack of effort, its just we dont have the warbird or millitary numbers that te US does.

Nonetheless, I've always had a good time at Avalon and will be going to the next one with bells on.


Rocket:ok:

[thunderbird five]

This might liven things up - it's in a box, on the way here now for Avalon!
Skip Stewart 2011 by Scott Slocum.mov - YouTube :eek:

Where should Avalon go - someplace not dusty:{

[Composite_Man]

We are a little unfortunate, given Australia's location, to be so far away from the main aircraft population bases of the world, and having such a small population that restricts the potential numbers of warbirds and other types that attract visitors to an air show.

Attend a sea side air show at Bournemouth in the UK and you may well have a million people watch the event over a period of 4 days, with an aircraft that is displaying a routine at 3 or 4 separate events on the same day. Such is the luxury of having a large number of warbirds in a relatively small country with a large population. Add to that the proximity of several neighbouring countries willing to throw display aircraft into the mix at short notice and you have the ingredients for a full and varied display program. And Bournemouth is but one of around 230 air shows in the UK each year.

Avalon is probably the most suitable, and least restricted, aifrield for a major air show in Australia.

True, you cannot compare the event to Oshkosk and Farnborough, but nor do we have the number of available aircraft or the ties to manufacturers that support many of the overseas events.

Having said that Avalon does put on a great event given the resources available with many of the civil and military acts coming from overseas. The air show is also a major event for the Victorian Government and the RAAF.

Di_Vosh may have valid opinions, however, many of the visiting members of the public do not have the ability, nor the interest, to travel to any of the overseas events. Given the state of grass roots aviation in Australia is good to see the event still going and attracting relatively good attendance numbers.

I think you will find 2013 will be a varied event to 2011, and 2015 even more so. I believe having an event such as Avalon is better than not at all.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Its not through lack of effort, its just we dont have the warbird or millitary numbers that te US does.
True. Though we do have world class beaurocracy and ass-covering:yuk:

[Mick.B]

Biggest turnoff at Avalon is the way over the top security. Just relax guys. Let more light aircraft fly in, maybe camp. Turn it into an event where people want to go, meet and get pissed. :ok:

[jas24zzk]

Well if it goes anywhere else it won't be an Avalon Airshow will it....:ugh:

A some have said, its a crap airshow....by world standards....against farnborough...the worlds best airshow. (except Paris, according to the french, but who really cares what they think)

The reality is a subtle difference in purpose.

Farnborough is pure 'show'

Avalon, paris and oshkosh are about trade.

A friend of mine recently returned from oshkosh, and most of his banter has been about what he learnt in the trade displays about systems available etc. The air display was a minor part for him.

I've done a couple of avalon's and after the first i certainly found more interesting things in the trade tents. Whats available, whats coming. The ASA controller sim at the last one was a lot of fun..and FREE!.


Still the best Airshow i've been to in Oz was the bicentennial at Point cook..still got an instamatic pic of the ct4 formation over the top forming 88.

[VH-XXX]

Fun video there! Pity Avalon is essentially tree-less so he has nothing to fly around. Props are good for low level like when Matt Hall was below the tree-line at Tyabb airshow. Adds to the suspense as you wonder if he's coming up again!

One can assume the reason for the security is the military kit, however it wouldn't be the same without it. Catch 22.

It would need to be in a capital city to get the volume of visitors. Much of Melbourne has been before and are over it. If it was in Canberra for example perhaps a lot more would attend at least for the first one.

[Old Akro]

f it was in Canberra for example perhaps a lot more would attend

Canberra? Really? Are there that many there?

I've deleted it now, but I had the tender for government transport. They must have hundreds attending. In the past I've been a guest in a military suppliers chalet. That's where the money is. The consumer stuff is window dressing.

[VH-XXX]

Canberra? Really? Are there that many there?

You have a valid point. I'm only thinking that because it would be a new thing and exciting the first time. After that god only knows where it could go...

[Jack Ranga]

Very average airshow, in fact it's a complete bore. No, actually it's more of a joke. If it's targeting military sales why are they charging punters to get in? I've got a mate that's had dealings with the organisers & you'd piss yourself laughing if you heard the transcript.

Go to Narromine, Temora, Wanaka, Oshkosh, Farborough etc

[hiwaytohell]

Give them a break!

Ian Honnery and his team deserve credit for putting on a fine show for so many years.

It is a venue that has exposed hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of non-aviation punters to our industry in an era where security greatly restricts access to aeroplanes the general public. Plus provided a venue for our local aviation industries to showcase their wares.

"Go to Narromine, Temora, Wanaka, Oshkosh, Farborough etc" yes go to them as well.

Avalon may be a mixed bag. Part trade show & part air show and is certainly not quite in the league of Oshkosk or Farnborough... but as an "every other year" alternate to Singapore they have done a bloody good job for many years.

Airshows are expensive and difficult things to organise! Good on them for their past commitment, and although room for improvement / evolution, hope there are many more to come!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

ASD got the gig as a gift from the Hawke government.

Avalon is money for jam. Mega entry fees. Extraordinary mega site fees for concessions. Granted, there is a cost for bringing out some of the civilian talent, I would be surprised if the military iron is costed. Going by what was supposed to happen at Richmond, the military also have to pay for their fuel.

Staffing is predominantly voluntary, no cost there except freeby clothing if you are lucky enough to score a jacket. They do get a cheesy DVD which is a pretty good insight into the background behind the scenes. The Temora and Tyabb warbirds are conspicuous at times by not attending. Tyabb was there last time....politics?

I am getting at the idea that ASD may well not be the best people for running such a show. Military sales? Where are the Russians and Europeans? Bizjets are well represented. GA and RAAus could be better catered for if ALL aeroplanes were available to the public instead of behind barricades.

Time for some new blood and a different venue. If I was running it, Mangalore would be on the list. Great country venue close to Melbourne and Bendigo as well as the huge population of NE Vic. Albury/Wodonga. The show would have a north south display line with an easterly aspect...photographers would understand...the sun is at the spectator's back so the display is well lit by afternoon sun. There are equally spectacular civilian displays of working aircraft than just military. The only limiting factor for Mangalore would be length and the PCN for the heavier displays. No RPT and no airspace restrictions except those imposed by the fun police. Bottom line? Time for ASD to lose the franchise!

[VH-XXX]

Re Mangalore. Interesting idea, but I can't see 100,000+ (or whatever the figure is) Melburnians travelling 122kms on average to travel to Mangalore for this airshow. They need those crowd numbers to bring in the required amount of income to support it.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

I hope 2015 is not the last event at Avalon.
However, the same speculation has popped up during the last few events.
Maybe it's the LF way of playing a bit of brinkmanship when it comes to negotiating for future events....
At least LF is a bit more subtle with aviation than Clive Palmer is with golf!.

[Jack Ranga]

in an era where security greatly restricts access to aeroplanes the general public.

Go to Oshkosh and have a look at the security. Then come back to Avalon and ask yourself why the difference?

[Nautilus Blue]

Well if it goes anywhere else it won't be an Avalon Airshow will it...
Didn't seem to worry the Dakar Rally.

The only two airshows I've been to are Avalon and RIAT*. Each is different, both were a good day out, but I don't know if i'd be in a hurry to visit either again soon. Difference is I suppose is that Avalon is 20 minutes away and RIAT is on the other side of the world.

* There appears to be a danger of this becoming a "what o/s shows I've been to thread :)

[PA39]

For me personally i think Avalon is GREAT, Not just the aircraft but the catchup with old codger fly buddies and engineers. Ill be there!

[VH-XXX]

Oshkosh seems to have more "spirit" where people hang around their aircraft and love talking to you about it. In comparison at Avalon is seems only a few hang around them to talk to you which isn't very exciting. Not sure what te difference is really, perhaps the large number of overseas visitors to Oshkosh? But it seems that it's not the GA or RAA lineup that the crowd come to see, it's the Caribou's Blackhawks and fast jets. They grab their spot, park their arses and settle in for the weekend.

Avalon is a general publics airshow.
Oshkosh is an enthusiasts airshow. (By comparison but not in isolation)

[nitpicker330]

Some good things in the works for Avalon this year.:ok:

Bigger things in 2015. :ok:

Sure it's no Oshkosh but what the hell could be?? Come on guys really!!

We are at the ass end of the Aviation world miles from anywhere, what do you expect??

Oh and if you want to fly in and camp then there is a little strip called Avalon East that will accommodate most if not all GA A/C.:ok:

Free shuttle to the show too.

Friends work high up in the show and work their asses off bringing Aircraft and operators to the show from all over so please have a little respect for their work.:ok:

[Jack Ranga]

I expect value for money. I don't care if we are at the arse end, if a decent act can't be got at a reasonable price don't buy it.

I expect some educational seminars, some that I'd pay for, some that should be provided by the tax dollar I'm charged (CASA) and some from the products I've purchased. (Lycoming, Garmin, etc).

I expect that any airshow organiser would look at what's done around the world, take the best parts & improve the product. Not have an almighty god complex about who does what best. Avalon, you don't, far from it.

I expect it to be made easy and cheap for aircraft to fly in, park and camp. When **** loads of lighties are parked in areas the PUNTERS LOVE IT. The non flying public love staring at aeroplanes. I recently did a flight out bush, I made sure I bought the fuel from aerodromes that didn't charge landing fees & approach fees. I spent a bit of money in the towns. I expect the organisers to have the brains to build something so that the punters will come rather than rip pilots off,

Kind of expecting a lot eh? NOT.

[nitpicker330]

Jack. Avalon east is FREE to land at. They will once again have 2 strips available and ATC RFF. What else do you want for free??

The main Rwy 18/36 at YMAV will be way too busy with Airshow traffic and Jetstar RPT movements to let you in there with your bug smasher...fair enough?

Do you have any idea how much people like M Hall and HARS charge to appear?? Thought not.:=

The guys running the show do work closely with most large Airshows around the world and attend the same shows in a working capacity to both help and learn.

Maybe you could do a better job with the limited budget they have but I doubt it....:ugh:

[Critical Reynolds No]

attend the same shows in a working capacity to both help and learn.


Sounds more like a junket.

[compressor stall]

Quite some years ago I was flying an aircraft that we had exhibited at a small Airshow at Cambridge then took it to Avalon the following weekend. The difference in the crowd behaviour was incredible.

At Cambridge, everyone lined up politely, I let kids sit in the cockpit with their dad, noone touched anything they shouldn't have and everyone was so respectful. One week later after 30 mins of the Avalon folk, noone was let near the cockpit as every second kid - and often their dad - was trying to move the control column, push and pull power levers and flick any switch they could find

A totally different psyche and crowd behaviour.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Yup, they're called "dea****s" and shouldnt be allowed on a ramp let alone near the business end of an aircraft.

[VH-XXX]

A totally different psyche and crowd behaviour.

Exactly what I was on about earlier - Avalon doesn't have that "feel" or "spirit" as I was trying to convey earlier.

At Oshkosh some 15,000 people camp there and literally hundreds of RV's (campers :)) hit the town and the local Kmart car park, now surely they aren't all pilots or aircraft owners? They must be coming to Oshkosh for the people and aircraft, probably meeting up with the same people each year. Unlike Avalon, these visitors have a genuine interest in your aircraft, how it flies, how it was built, how much fuel it uses. At Avalon they just seem to want to press on the fabric, laugh at the rag and tube and see what they can get away with or steal from you!

This is not a criticism of Avalon but rather a challenge. I don't know what it would take to change it to be like Oshkosh and I don't believe the organisers would necessarily even want that. It's just an interesting comparison. Maybe it's just the difference in population and in the US there are THAT many more people interested in aircraft?

[Critical Reynolds No]

A totally different psyche and crowd behaviour.

Goes with the territory down that way! Lots of teeth missing, teen mums, blokes pushing strollers whilst swigging a JD & Coke. I'm surprised they can afford the entry fee. I guess they have 2 years to save for the biggest event in town!

[nitpicker330]

Critical--- Junket? My mate paid his own airfare on his days off to attend the Airshows in the UK.........:= has a full time job in the left seat of an A330 and does all the hard work ( CASA Approvals etc ) to run this show on HIS DAYS OFF.....

What do you do mate? :eek:


And as for bogans attending Avalon, they're everywhere now, just look around, tatts and thongs everywhere you go in Oz..

[Critical Reynolds No]

Critical--- Junket? My mate paid his own airfare on his days off to attend the Airshows in the UK

Ok Hobknobbing then.

[Avgas172]

Nobody is forcing you to go...and based on that contribution better for all if you don't well he calls himself cynical so I guess the hat fits, I went to Avalon 2011 & had a ball, best part for me was the Redbird Sim. Would be happy to go this year but NW Qld is a bit to far to do it this time. :ok:
appols Critical i'll put my glasses back on

[Critical Reynolds No]

To be clear that was Cynical Pilot not me!


Nobody is forcing you to go...and based on that contribution better for all if you don't

well he calls himself critical so I guess the hat fits, I went to Avalon 2011 & had a ball, best part for me was the Redbird Sim. Would be happy to go this year but NW Qld is a bit to far to do it this time.

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

Sounds more like a junket.

Regardless of how you feel about the airshow, that is a stupid comment with no basis of fact whatsoever. :suspect:

I've seen how hard the Airshows people work, especially those who look after the exhibition space, the static and hot display areas, and the media people.

The fact is Avalon (or wherever you hold it in Australia) has little appeal to foreign air forces or manufacturers unless it coincides with major exercises/operations in our region, or there are active commercial/military sales campaigns underway. It's the tyranny of distance and of having a small and widespread population base...

There is also the issue of companies increasingly being held to account by their shareholders and home governments on what they spend on marketing - witness major US companies pulling out of big overseas airshows this year (e.g. Northrop Grumman & Paris). It's just not fashionable to display your wares that can kill people and break their stuff to the general public anymore...

[alphacentauri]

To be honest, the location for me isn't an issue. I will travel to the ends of the earth for a good airshow....and that is what it is about. What is coming to Avalon this year? we are now 6 weeks out and no major announcements.

In contrast I went to the Temora airshow 18 months ago. They announced the lineup months in advance. It wasn't a big airshow by any means but many will agree it was the best Warbird airshow this country has seen since the early Scone, Mangalore and Albatross airshows, and without a doubt I am going again this year.

You want to make Avalon good, then get some good stuff to attend and perform. Problem solved. No point having F-22's parked on the tarmac. People want to see them perform....thats what an airshow is about.

My ideas;

B-52 - Multiple low passes down the runway, and not 3 miles west. don;t tell me they can't do it...they did it at the Pearce open day last year and was quite impressive.
B-2 - Get them in the air
B-1 - Get it out here and flying
F-15 - previous displays were awesome. It should be booked every year as standard
F-16 - Ditto
F-22 - Get one out here with a display pilot
Tornado - Get one out here on a RAF detachment
Typhoon - Ditto
RAF Herc - Get one out to support Tornado and bring other aircraft (ie Lynx)
Su-30 - Get the indo's involved with a display
Mig-29 - get the indo's involved with a display
F-5 - Ask Singapore to send some
A380 - get QANTAS to bring one and do a display (anyone remember the Q744 display at richmond in the early 90's?)
An124 - repeat display from 91 richmond airshow

Invite a big warbirds contingent and get big formations of warbirds going, you should be able to get at least;
3-4 mustangs
5-10 Trojans
2 Spitfires
Souther Knights would be good.
HARS fleet
Temora fleet.

Mix it up a bit. Start flying at 9 and go thru till 5. have some mustangs in formation with an f-15 or similar. Make it exciting!!!!!

Put the display line on the centreline of the runway and not 1/2 mile away, yes maybe its time CASA got thier head out of their bum and eased restrictions on airshows.

I don;t want to travel all the way to avalon to see aircraft parked on the ground and multiple back to back performances by small unlimted class aircraft. yes Matt Hall is awesome, but not similar performances all day. People are making comparisons to overseas shows and thats good, but the key difference isn;t the crowd....its the airshow performers.

Rant over. I just keep remembering the airshows of the late eighties and early nineties and they were awesome. Even Avalon right up until about 97 was really good.

[Critical Reynolds No]

I've seen how hard the Airshows people work, especially those who look after the exhibition space, the static and hot display areas, and the media people.


Yes the volunteers are fantastic. No question about that.

Alpha C - The B1 has been at the last two and flying.
An124 was 1988 as with the QF 747.

Good ideas. Throw in the Malaysians as well - The Smokey Bandits!

Mk3Qmzyaxq8

[Critical Reynolds No]

Regardless of how you feel about the airshow, that is a stupid comment with no basis of fact whatsoever.

What a rumour on a rumour website? Who'd 've thunked it?:ugh:

[bentleg]

To get off Avalon bashing and back to the original question


Apparently 2015 might be the last at Avalon and was wondering where should it be held in the future? What would be a suitable alternative in Australia that would please both trade & punter attendees?
Thoughts?



Avalon air show uses a substantial area of hard stand and a huge area for all the marquees and stuff, and a runway not occupied by constant RPT traffic, preferable somewhere near a major city for accommodation.

I do not know of another domestic airport that would fill the bill, any one with the runway and the hardstand area has significant RPT Traffic.
A RAAF base might do it if the RAAF comes onside and can get its head around allowing access to the hordes who will attend. Richmond, Newcastle or Nowra come to mind. (I am not familiar with Sale, Edinburgh or Amberley).

PS - the A380 was at Avalon in 2009

[VH-XXX]

Sale had a non-military airshow a few years back and to be honest it was crap and not that many attended. Cross off East Sale ! Too far from Melbourne too.

[Critical Reynolds No]

How about a set up like the Townsville ADF show? Show off airport above the beach one day and then an open day the next day to wonder through the parked aircraft?

[Jack Ranga]

OK nitpicker, my criticisms are probably more aimed at anything done in Australia. Getting raped for a bottle of water, paying what you'd pay for a dozen oysters for a bucket of chips. Paying more for your parking than you would for an entrance ticket.

I do have contact with people who've had dealings with organisers who behave like beaurocrats.

The show is a bore, too long between the acts, plus what I've outlined above. Regardless of whether the organisers are volunteers or not, boring is boring.

[nitpicker330]

1/ Just regarding the F22 not flying last show. At that time the only display Pilot for the 22 was on holidays and not able to make it, so blame the USAF and not Airshows down under for the stuff up.

This year it will fly:ok:

2/ if you recall there was a national Emergency in Christchurch NZ with a rather large Earthquake just before or during the show, therefore the NZAF B757's and our own C17's and C130J's taken out of the show to assist our NZ cousins. So don't blame Airshows down under for the Earthquake!!

Operational things happen and they cannot control them all.:eek:;)

Not to mention numerous Jetstar arrivals and Un-planned QF maintenance movements that need to be accommodated each day.

The boys and girls in ops do a good job :ok:

[Captain Sand Dune]

if the RAAF comes onside and can get its head around allowing access to the hordes who will attend Like they did at Amberely?:hmm:

[alphacentauri]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is if you want t,o attract more enthusiasts, then you have to give the enthusiasts a reason to attend. Sure A380 attended in 2009, but did they give an aircraft handling display? Avalon get a healthy amount of aircraft in attendance, but a lot if them don't fly or if they do the display is a little underwhelming.

Just my opinion, but it sounds like a lot of av nerds on here agree.

As for location. Better chance of overseas military attending if its at a military location. Richmond/Nowra have always been good airshow venues.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[MFB 2]

Richmond in 88 was the best airshow I have been to in OZ. Awesome displays by the AN124, Tornado, the mirage up against the hornet, and plenty of other airforce participation. Sadly a lot of cutting back on expenses, so it's harder to get them out here. Plenty of good camping areas not too far away.
Plus it is fairly central population wise so they would get the attendance they need.

[Flying Binghi]

Yeah, Richmond 88 weren't bad.
Hoover at YBAF were a nice little show with a surprise from Hemples mig. Probably the last 'show' i went to.

Dunno why we need air shows, just have our flyins. Cheaper and more enjoyment fer the pilot..:) Let the military 'buyers' go to the UK/France shows.

[Stikybeke]

I don't care where it is....I'm still going!!!

Stiky
:ok:

[bentleg]

Avalon airshow had its origins in a airshow that was sponsored/supported by the local comunity. You can see the Geelong 4WD club and Latrobe Valley Aero club, amongst others, still supporting it.

Another incidental factor to relocating the airshow is therefore the volunteer force. A substantial number come from Geelong and have volunteered since its inception - it is unlikely they would ALL follow it interstate.

[Alec1912]

Always been a big supporter of Avalon. Been to every one since i was 5. I'd hate to jump on the 'criticize at all costs' bandwagon but I fear I have to after the release of the provisional flying display. As a genuine aviation enthusiast I love warbirds, jets, airliners the lot. I do commend the organizers for getting that Raptor display we've always wanted and I realize that jet alone could quite possibly bring record crowds to the event. I'm also realistic about how hard it is to bring out foreign militaries and their hardware (Migs, Sukhois, etc etc). However I just look at that program and think...I don't even know. The absence of the Southern Knights, the Spartan, a classic hornet display, a B-1, the entire Judy Pay collection (correct me if I'm wrong) and a modern airliner is frustrating. It just looks bare. I cant say I'm not immensely looking forward to the F-22 and the return of the Caribou but there's definitely something missing from Avalon this year. Someone's gotta bring back that Dump n Burn we all loved. Maybe it is time for Avalon to move on :(

[Critical Reynolds No]

Getting a bit heated on facetwit:
Airshow (https://www.facebook.com/#!/Airshow2013)

[mickk]

The Airshow can stay at Avalon if the highly paid and pampered organisers do some thinking. They are now part of a Victorian State Government Organisation, eating out of the publics trough, time to get them to earn their money.

All this crowing about how they got the F22 here is a joke. All they did was say "yes" and ask what was required. The F22 was offered, as it was to the other allied nations.

Main GA and Mil ground display at Avalon and fast jet base. Handling displays done over the bay.

Warbirds and GA flying displays based at Moorabbin and flying displays done over the bay around Mordialloc.

Red Bull around Portsea and based at Tyabb.

All on the one weekend. All those free looks, amazing.

Why airshow is not covered live on FTA TV is a scandal. Many millions in advertising revenue is being lost.

[nitpicker330]

Mate you are so full of bs you're about to explode!!

So, my mates personally flying to Pearl Harbour Hawaii to meet with CINPACFLEET had nothing to do with the US military appearance??????

Get your hand off it you are a disgrace to the hard work of the organizers like my friend, you think something as big as this just falls into place....:=:D

Richard Cranium.

[VH-XXX]

Bairnsdale airshow got a B52 from Guam, cost them a trip to Melbourne by car, a letter and a slab of VB. For that they also got ajohn Travolta thrown in as the ambassador.

[A37575]

Been to Avalon three times and never again. Long way to drive, windy, hot and the dust really spoils the day. The toilets stink, and the gaps are too long between individual flying displays. Horses for courses but most professionals who attend to make serious purchases don't get turned on by little aeroplanes spinning, bunting, flying inverted, making smoke, Harvards doing endless aeros. Kids love 'em though.

As someone said it is a trade show and flying displays are incidental. There is nothing much different in all the Avalon shows

[mickk]

Nob jockey there is a wonderful podacst with a US official explaining all about the Raptors Pilot training and international flying schedule. He explains how the F22 has been offered to cananda, australia and GB for public displays as we are such staunch allies. Offered, not begged arranged, cajoled or negotiated.

Business is business. Getting ac to fly at an airshow is not some top secret extra special cloak and dagger mission. It happens every day hundereds of times around the world. Its called an industry that people are paid to be in. Procedures are in place. All your hysterical mysterious meetings after long tortuous flights are a side show and have nothing to do with anything other than planning for what has already been decided.

It is very simple. We invite the yanks, they see what they can offer, that gets run past the oz govt. Subject to operations, the logistics are planned, schedules arranged, clearances given, support put in place, forward ops deployed, aircraft moved, amen. The yanks do it every day, its a nice mission for them, they love it. They would send more but they dont have much money atm.

People getting paid to organise an airshow is not hard work.

[500N]

A37575

"Been to Avalon three times and never again. Long way to drive, windy, hot and the dust really spoils the day."

"Long way to drive,"

From where ?

It is probably the easiest drive of any in Melbourne
because you have a straight highway / freeway to it
and connecting freeways onto this one.
Imagine holding a show at Tullamarine, then watch the wingers
re traffic, distance etc.

Isn't one of the attractions of Avalon that it has low level of restrictions,
partly due to lack of commercial traffic and partly it's location away from
the city / main airport ?

"windy, hot and the dust", Er, this is Australia in the hottest month
of the year. And hasn't the show been wet and muddy a couple of times ?

[A37575]

Er, this is Australia in the hottest month
of the year

Point well taken. Forgive the tetchiness of a grumpy old man. In years past I have had the pleasure of watching air shows in England where the aerodromes and surrounding countryside are part of England's `green and pleasant land`. A contrast to the dusty paddocks of Avalon. Add to that in England, the sight and sounds of a wonderful variety of wartime aircraft plus the close synchronisation of their flying displays. That said, there are undoubtedly thousands of Melburnians who thoroughly enjoy Avalon perhaps because they have seen nothing else.

[VH-XXX]

Good point there, a different time of year could be a goer. It seemingly is stinking hot and dusty every time.

[500N]

A375

What did you mean by "LONG WAY TO DRIVE ?'

I have been to Farnborough so understand green and cool :ok:
A different time of year might be better although you
run the risk of weather wash outs but them's the breaks.

I have lived not far from Avalon for 20 years, first 10 years
we had cold wet winters, last 10 years dry winters.

"there are undoubtedly thousands of Melburnians who thoroughly enjoy Avalon perhaps because they have seen nothing else."

Exactly.

We just don't have the events so this is awesome to them.


Re the Trade versus Public - and as others have said, mothers with prams, singlets and thongs and other general put downs.

The days these people are there are PUBLIC days with payment
for entry. TRADE days where these people are not allowed are
the days beforehand.

FFS, you can't criticize the public for coming on public days
and as for "singlets and things", OK, it's not the nice suits
and ties or smart casual wear of the UK but the culture out
here is different.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

RE..."in England where the aerodromes and surrounding countryside are part of England's `green and pleasant land`. A contrast to the dusty paddocks of Avalon"....

I attended Duxford, RIAT, & Farnborough last year, and the mud at each venue was up to our ankles.....

NO dust though.....
(Nor heat, nor flies....)

:=

[500N]

Well it looks like the Airshow is staying where it is until 2025.

[Critical Reynolds No]

Sauce?(sic)

[Ultralights]

Airshow to stay at Avalon until 2025 | thetelegraph.com.au (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/airshow-to-stay-at-avalon-until-2025/story-e6freuz0-1226583319023)

[Critical Reynolds No]

Thanks Ulralights,

Can anyone tell me when Avalon started having trade days that were not opened to the public?
Thanks

[Old Akro]

I'm pretty sure the trade days have been there from the beginning. That is where the money is. The public airshow is just sh1t & glitter.

[ampclamp]

Having been to shows at Bankstown and Richmond I cannot see how they would cope with traffic and parking.
Bankstown is surrounded by suburbia, has short runways no mass parking no train nearby . Many years ago tried to get to Richmond on a Sunday and could not get any where near it for bumper to bumper traffic. Went on trade day at Richmond and that was OK but it is a nightmare otherwise. SYD cant cope with normal traffic so that is out. Tulla ? Same I guess but a bit better. CBR maybe a goer. By the time 2015 gets here CBR will be covered in shopping malls anyway:hmm:

[VH-XXX]

Sooooo Avalon is off to a flying start in some very crappy weather.

Has anyone else heard the figure of 30 CASA staff being used for ramp checks particularly around the commercial operators at Avalon East ?

[500N]

Don't think dust will be a problem this year !

Hopefully the / any cloud cover won't be too low
at the weekend.

[Bonniciwah]

We wonder why aviation rarely gets good PR in this country and why there is no longer a fascination with flight. Yet here, on a forum frequented by people who supposedly have a passion for aviation, I see posts taking delight in criticising Australia's premier aviation event and complain about having to share it with Joe public.

Seeing people marvel at military jets and aerobatics for the first time makes any av geek like me proud. Even if they don't get the aviation bug they may think twice before signing a petition to close a local airfield. Instead of arguing where the Australian International Air Show should be, there should be an effort to have more airshows around Australia or grow the ones we already have.

Can't wait to go tomorrow!

[500N]

"Yet here, on a forum frequented by people who supposedly have a passion for aviation, I see posts taking delight in criticising Australia's premier aviation event and complain about having to share it with Joe public."


Do they have to share with "Joe public" ?

Web site says "Trade Exhibition" and then "Public Airshow"
with a one day overlap on the 1st and the public only allowed
in after 2.00pm.

Seems pretty clear to me that the whole event is in two parts,
professionals and public.

[Critical Reynolds No]

I think the "PP" and industry employees amongst us can't fathom how the Gunzels get in on what is professionals only trade days.

[500N]

Aaahh, understand.

The problem with every trade show !!!

[rjtjrt]

Bonniciwah

Well said.

John

[VH-XXX]

From memory no kids are allowed until Friday afternoon :ok:


Web site says "Trade Exhibition" and then "Public Airshow" with a one day overlap on the 1st and the public only allowed in after 2.00pm.


Usually at about 12pm Friday the exhibitors in the trade halls have packed up and are racing for the exits before Mum, Dad and the kids from Corio come through the doors. By 2:15pm anything free like pens and stickers are all exhausted and you'll not get near a flight simulator in the hall or a Steyr or Minimi at the Army recruitment tent.

Tuesday - Friday are the best days for the pro's.

[Critical Reynolds No]

Have seen lots of these with pins attached over the past day:

http://s4.thisnext.com/media/largest_dimension/0AF20CEC.jpg

:ok:

[VH-XXX]

Have seen lots of these with pins attached over the past day:

There would also be a knob attached that you neglected to mention.


The word on the street is that Avalon EAST is CLOSED until further notice due to the rain. I suspect that they want to keep it in good condition ready for the weekend when there will be a ship load of traffic.

[Hugh Jarse]

Have seen lots of these with pins attached over the past day:

http://s4.thisnext.com/media/largest_dimension/0AF20CEC.jpg

Poor man's safari suit? Where's the plastic pen pocket? :}

[Critical Reynolds No]

The pens attach to the sleeve of the Aussie Disposals issue A-2 style jacket.:ok:

[bentleg]

Has anyone else heard the figure of 30 CASA staff being used for ramp checks particularly around the commercial operators at Avalon East ?


If you are talking about activity on the date of your post (26/2 - first trade show day) AVE was not scheduled for use that day.

Today (27/2) is the first day AVE was to be in service however it was closed on account of the soft surface.

[Jerr]

Bentleg

With Avalon East closed, is that why Warrior VH- MRX could park next to the B 52??

JERR

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w496/robinda40/40b4154f-e7e5-4eab-b621-1ed2437f52b9.jpg

[VH-XXX]

You are correct BentLeg.

I suspect we won't be seeing Avalon East open until Saturday and Sunday or Friday at the earliest. Whilst there is rain forecast and falling I can't see it happening. Can't see East really being needed until then anyway.

[baswell]

I was going to fly to Lethbridge instead and catch a lift into Avalon. But a contact in the tower told me to just show up and they'd take people in as long as they had somewhere to park.

And with a low turnout, there is still plenty of parking space.

I'm across from the Wedgetail.

YMMV...

[500N]

Any more comments on the airshow ?

[VH-XXX]

I'll let you know tomorrow if anything exciting (interesting) happens!

[Mr.Buzzy]

So what happened to the Breitling Stearman that wound up "Off Piste" on Wednesday?

Bbbzbzbz zbzzzzzz

[VH-XXX]

The Breitling aircraft did make the news. It was suffering from a "technical problem," the honey was asked to step down into the cockpit and a precautionary landing was successfully made. One might wonder how quickly this all happened and why they didn't head back to the field assuming they were nearby.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Popped a piston, apparently.

[nomorecatering]

Went today (thursday), dont know why I bothered. For the most part the trade halls were full of missle models in miniature, the other exibiters had mostly posters. No toys to play with, touch and feel, thats why you go to these events. Even Garmin was noticed for its lack of enthusiasm, with only some posters and brochures in their telephone box sized booth. No examples of their products what so ever.

The biz jet line was deserted with no one around and the barriers firmly in place to keep the riff raff away from them. As mere scum i wouldnt dare to ask to have a peek inside one.

Why no factory support for a display from Cessna or Piper. Like we are only their second biggest market outside the US. Beechraft's area was firmy locked up and deserted.......pretty much sums up the company.

Got to meet Beavan from Avplan who was the most enthusiastic exhibiter in the whole tade hall, calmly listening and answering all the dumb questions that were asked.

Vline was its usual poor standard, a train out of Sothern Cross to Geelong only every hr during the morning peak hour, not enough carriages so it was packed like a sardine can.

Overall, was a wasted day going to the trade day.

[Critical Reynolds No]

Maybe it should be moved up North so not far for people to travel? Darwin, Townsville? Just look at what was at LIMA 2013.
Thai Gripen. RAF Typhoon. This:
http://www.airteamimages.com/pics/172/172552_800.jpg

Or maybe I should just go to Malaysia next time.

[Engineer_aus]

They should cancel the whole show. It is a waste of time and money anyway.