Hi-vis vests to be required at YPJT from 21 January.

[Icarus2001]

So finally the safety industry has discovered Jandakot.

Hi vis vests/clothing must be worn from 21 January or you will be shot and prosecuted. Or perhaps it was prosecuted and shot, anyway you get the idea.

How many decades has the airport been operating?

How many incidents/deaths/injuries have been reported in this time that were attributable to NOT wearing high visibility clothing?

How did we all manage in those busy days of the 80's and 90's, you know when the place was VERY busy, even before 06R/24L?

Show me the COST BENEFIT analysis case for this.

Show me ANY study that says on a clear blue day they make ANY difference to the visibility of a person on the ramp.

These vests were designed for low visibilty situations such as night time, fog and rain. Now we wear them in the middle of the day in summer.

I am going to go and have a little lie down now, and perhaps a little cry at the fact this day has arrived. With its added cost burden shared amongst the many for the delight of the few.

:sad:

[Sunfish]

Be grateful that you aren't required to wear a hard hat, ear defenders, goggles and safety shoes.


....And a respirator and gloves for refueling.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

WOW!!! Does it matter that the aeroplane I normally fly is a 'bright' yellow..??

And that I usually taxi right up to the hangar..??

Who has brought on this insanity..???

Bah Humbug!!!:yuk::yuk:

[Jabawocky]

:}:}:}:}:}:}

I have a lovely vest in our canopy cover bag from the lovely town of Launceston. Yes even the two headed folk have been conned into this sill BS.

Show me ANY study that says on a clear blue day they make ANY difference to the visibility of a person on the ramp.

I have conducted my own study.

I have long held the belief that the WHS folk are proudly interfering with Post Natal Genetic Selection for decades, and as a result the use of flouro vests etc are actually providing increased risk.

The false sense of security has the opposite effect. These bullet proof shields actually create complacency and are a greater risk longer term.

My personal crusade and safety study has proven as an outsider on site, I am far less obvious and visible in one. I have found far more attention is paid without one.

Police or Ambo's or tow truck drivers on the side of a road on a dark wet night.....different story, but refuelling or unloading my GA plane on the ramp, it actually is a risk. Whats more it is an increased hazzard while refuelling due static discharge. :=

So what next?

[ampclamp]

Those vests are super comfy on those filthy hot 40' plus days :mad:. At night fine, but during the day it is horse shyte.

[YPJT]

Icarus, do you have a copy of the written direction by the operators? They have been hounding some of the flying school and charter operators for a while but I guess now they are extending it to everyone who goes airside.

Perth airport has had the requirement in for some time as has just about every RPT / chtr opr so we really shouldn't be all that surprised. I think you can pick up the cheap crappy ones in Bunnings for about 5 bucks. Although with their high nylon content the risk of static spark during self serve refuelling operations could be a concern. I wonder if the rocket scientists on the hill did a risk assessment on that aspect?

Just thinking out loud here, I would hazard a guess that within the airports SMS, their risk register identified one of the greatest hazards being persons on the movement area. The CASA AD inspectors would have loved that and made a recommendation in the last safety audit to mandate the wearing of hi viz.

[T28D]

It is horse ****e and poor quality at that.

[glen beard]

Guys, you have obviously missed the aim of JAH,who are such a wonderful bunch of aviation lovely chappies.
Anyone who knows anything about mining would realise that all this gear is required on a minesite,and if you haven't been to JT of late,that is exactly what it is.Millions,yes,MILLIONS of tonnes of soil,sand,call it what you will,that belongs to the Australian Taxpayers is being removed every week day from what used to be one of the most pleasantly located airports in the world.I have contacted the local member ( Joe Francis) who has informed me that his "hands are tied" because of a a Commonwealth Govt Approval (EPBC2009/4796 dated 28th March 2010,signed by one Hon Peter Garrett,MP ,giving JAH approval to construct a "4th runway & associated taxiways ,etc,etc) Is that the one shown on the latest plans that goes straight thru the RACWA?.So much for your "greenies".
From my understanding,the environmental impact would be minimal.What a load of ****.This mob have turned the surrounds of the airport into a desert,destroyed every living animal within cooee,cut down one of the last existing natural banksia forests on the coastal belt and last,but not least,totally destroyed the Jandakot Water Mound in the area.
I left after 43 years working & operating on JT.The day i left & decided to trade from home i honestly thought i would miss it.Not so,even though i still have to go there to pick up & drop of parts most days,i hear the anger,resentment,disappointment & frustration of existing operators.But nothing will change,because we are small and they are politicians who know they won't be re-elected,but still earn a tidy pension for their stuff-ups.
Remember who sold out GA when next you vote.

Happy,healthy & safe new year to all Ppruners

regards
Glen Beard

[Rogan82]

This was brought in at my local tarmacs a few years back. Of interest is how most operators are so used to seeing the fluro vests everywhere that they have become normalised as background noise. This has lead to incidents when we have not seen them!

Maybe the groundies all need little flags on the tarmac :ugh:

[YPJT]

G'day Glen, Yes its not until you look at the desert and unsightly tilt up walls that now pollute the landscape that you realise just how much bush and associated wildlife was destroyed to satisfy some money hungry yarpies. At least they were stopped from taking over everything and moving the airport down south. Didn't a few people end up with egg on their faces over that little debacle. :ok::ok: I still have a copy of Mark Vaile's letter telling them to basically pull their heads in.:ouch:

What is even more sickening though and as you also pointed out, it has all been facilitated by that worthless imposter Garrett. I reckon most Midnight Oil fans feel nothing but contempt for the way he turned his back on his stated ideals.:yuk::yuk::yuk:

[AerodyManic]

I love my fluero vest. It keeps my nice clean white shirt just that!!

[Old Akro]

If everyone wears yellow jackets, are they still high visibility? Might be better to wear a blue polo shirt for contrast.

[Sunfish]

And of course after the flouros come in you can forget about security and ASICs. The mind automatically assumes that anyone wearing a flouro has every right to be where they are.

As a matter of fact, I am editing an OHS manual right now. Any power lead on site has to be tested and tagged annuallly. We have bought stands $500 because power leads must be suspended at least Six feet of the ground to avoid tripping hazards.

The only "good" part is that we can relly on "OH&S regulations" to frustrate the lefties in Parks VIctoria who demand we give the general public unfettered access to our waterfront. :E

[Checkboard]

If you want to be visible, wander about without your HiVis on. In short order some busybody will spot you from the other side of the airport, and drive over furiously in order to tell you how invisible you were! :rolleyes:

[kellykelpie]

Too many rules now. I remember as a sixteen year old learning to fly at Jandakot in the 80s. Just as I was about to shout "clear prop" there was a knock on the door of the 152. What the? It was my grandfather, to tell me the door was slightly ajar - he didn't want me to fall out, bless him. Thankfully he didn't need a vest or an ASIC back then...

[BPA]

At the airline I work at the only person ever to be injured (hit by a vehicle) on the ramp was wearing a hi-viz and hearing protection.

[Jabawocky]

As I have proven, not wearing one makes you more NOTICEABLE as in difference to visible :hmm:

Won't change anything :sad:

[Like This - Do That]

I know that Clarkson isn't everyone's cup of tea, but this Top PPRuNe video is a pearler .... a particular emphasis on hi-viz vests.

Jeremy's Level Crossing Safety Message - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube

[Wally Mk2]

LITIGATION...................no more no less, that's the key word in today's out of control so called modern society.
Nobody is responsible for their own actions anymore, there has to be accountability but sadly these days the 'goody two shoes' rule makers don't have the words 'common sense' in their abbreviations list!!!

Still at least you will be lying there in hospital full knowing that yr high Vis vest really helped...............target you !:ugh:

Wmk2

[kingRB]

And of course after the flouros come in you can forget about security and ASICs. The mind automatically assumes that anyone wearing a flouro has every right to be where they are.Indeed. Funny you should mention that. A few years ago there was a guy on parole conducting a lot of break and enters in my neighbourhood, and was getting around in high vis clothing. After the police eventually caught up with him, they found out that he would walk straight into peoples yards in broad daylight checking to see if anyone was home. If anyone was he just claimed he was a council worker looking for a pipe or a meter. No one queried anything until he was caught breaking in red handed by a friend of mine.

[oldpax]

On the site I work on in OZ everonr gets to wear yellow shirts with reflective tape on,its mandatory from the top down .They are light and comfortable and from forays intot he nearbye town it looks like most companies provide them for thier workers.I also wear safety glasses and sometimes ear protection.when I started in industry none of this was mandatory nor was there a safety "culture"(1955ish).There were many accidents back then and things are much better now so what have Ppruners got against safety?Yes there are more rules than you can shake a stick at but in the long run lives get saved.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

As requested.....:ok:

"NOTICE TO AIRSIDE TENANTS AND OPERATORS - High Visibility Vests/Clothing

Good afternoon all,

Jandakot Airport Holdings Pty Ltd advises that effective from Monday 21st January 2013, High Visibility (“High Viz”) vests or clothing must be worn when walking within the aircraft movement areas. This includes all aprons (except leased apron areas), taxilanes, taxiways, the run-up bays and the helicopter training area.

For personal safety, it is necessary that people walking within the movement area are highly visible to aircraft and vehicle traffic at all times and in all weather conditions.

Passengers that need to cross a taxilane or taxiway to access an aircraft must be escorted by personnel wearing High Viz.

The high visibility items worn must be compliant with Australian Standard AS4602:1999 and AS1906:4. While yellow High Viz items are preferred, orange compliant garments are acceptable.

The Airside Vehicle Control Handbook and Conditions of Airport Access and Use have been updated to reflect this requirement.

Courtney Hall

Reception/Accounts Administrator

PH: 08 9417 0900

[Volumex]

They probably had a committee of experts working on that and still stuffed it - AS/NZS 4602:1999 has been superseded, the current version is 2011.

Only applies when walking. What if you were to saunter or mosey or hobble??

[Jabawocky]

What about running .......ohhhh no you not allowed to run, you might fall over or tip or something. :ugh:

[Ejector]

I read they are enforcing people who jin the mile high club to use yellow condoms now too.:ugh:

[Seabreeze]

Just watch this little infection of idiotic bureaucracy catch on everywhere.
If you need the PIC of a taxying aeroplane to avoid a pedestrian, then that pedestrian should be culled under Darwins ecology theory.

[2211race]

Just don't wear them. I'm not wearing them. That's all

[kaz3g]

I remember who sold out GA in this country... minister Anderson who gave our airports away to big business for peanuts on leases that the monkeys could have written.

And his mates and the next mob all failed to sort it when it all started to fall apart.

They are all the b....y same!

Kaz

[27/09]

OldPAx
On the site I work on in OZ everonr gets to wear yellow shirts with reflective tape on,its mandatory from the top down .They are light and comfortable and from forays intot he nearbye town it looks like most companies provide them for thier workers.I also wear safety glasses and sometimes ear protection.when I started in industry none of this was mandatory nor was there a safety "culture"(1955ish).There were many accidents back then and things are much better now so what have Ppruners got against safety?Yes there are more rules than you can shake a stick at but in the long run lives get saved.

A couple of points.

Your Hi Viz gear is your work clothing, for many in the aviation industry it's not and neither is is it practical or appropriate for Hi Viz gear to be the work clothing. It's only required for a few small fraction of the work day but needs to be ready at hand when needed. When it is worn the very nature of its design and the fact it's only to be worn for a few short minutes means that it is usually not completely done up and is more of a hazard to the wearer than it is an aid to safety. In short for many airside people wearing a Hi Viz jacket it is just a nuisance.

How many people have been killed on the apron/ramp of an airport in the last 50 years that would have been saved by Hi Viz clothing. None that I'm aware of. How many people have been killed in your industry?

The fact is the apron area is a very dangerous area with spinning propellers etc so the people out there take care. Hi Viz jackets aren't going to make it any safer. In the case of pilots they are generally in close proximity to their aircraft, if they're going to get hit then so is the aircraft, I don't see how a Hi Viz jacket is going to help.

No one is against safety, just stupid requirements, there hasn't been a problem on the ramp that requires everyone to wear Hi Viz so why is there a requirement for Hi Viz?

[aroa]

Requirement to be promulgated shortly that a person...in a hi vis vest, of course, will walk in front of taxiing aircraft waving a red flag and ringing a hand bell. This will make it even safer.:E

Anyone in JAH got shares in or own the HVV shop ??? Mmmm.:eek:

[Clare Prop]

I asked a JAH representative what would be done to the non-compliant, assuming, of course, that he would be able to see them sneaking around airside :ugh:
The reply was "denial of access to your aircraft".

Wowee that could be an interesting job for a lawyer!! :eek: Who's game to give it a try?

BTW kaz it was the Keating government who decided to flog off the airport leases but yeah they are all the same!

[SOPS]

Wow,I guess I am lucky to be alive, having worked for years at JT in the 70s and 80s and never wore a high viz....the place has gone mad, and as for all the destruction going on around the place,don't get me started.:ugh:

[Sunfish]

The trouble with the entire OHS political correctness is that it is way overdone for Two reasons:

1. To mask unpopular or downright unfair decisions.

2. To raise revenue through hidden taxation.

The British regulators are taking a stand on item #1

BBC News - Health and safety 'excuse' for unpopular decisions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14634289)


The Victorian Government pulls $471 million out of workcover - taxation by stealth.

WorkCover raid adds insult to injuries (http://www.afr.com/p/opinion/workcover_raid_adds_insult_to_injuries_cjfiQ4r9ItNRePQla6fhi M)


There IS actually hard maths behind health and safety under the heading "risk management" which is why airline passengers dont wear parachutes and car drivers dont wear crash helmets.

Contrary to popular opinion, actuaries can and do put a value on human life. They also can calculate the probability of an accident on an annual basis. It is also possible to calculate the cost and probability reduction associated with each safety measure..

Shove that into a discounted cash flow model and you can calculate what a safety measure is going to cost you on an annual basis and what it will save you on an annual basis. Do that across an industry or company and you can quickly discover if the costs are less than the savings - or not.

However Government doesn't give a flying **** about doing this. If people arent dying regularly at Australian airports from being accidentally run into by vehicles, the cost of Hiviz isnt going to make any savings.

[27/09]

I suspect in most cases the people making the decision on the use of Hi Viz gear don't even work in the airfield apron environment and have no flaming idea on what the actual risks are as opposed to their perceived risks. Hi Viz works elsewhere ergo it must provide a benefit here.

[Engineer_aus]

Did the parking meters not work over there?

[David75]

>Did the parking meters not work over there?

Hopefully somebody hit them with the car because they weren't painted in high viz yellow with reflective stripes.

[clark y]

The airports only want them to be worn so you can be fined for not displaying your ASIC because you left it attached to your shirt when you put your hi-vis vest over the top of it.

[RatsoreA]

Will this be put out in ERSA? Scenario - Farmer joe comes down from his station for the yearly trip to the big smoke. He doesn't have anyone at Perth to meet him, he doesn't have a HVV, he isn't part of or in any way related to any body or organization on the field. He gets out of his trusty 182 to walk to the gate landside, and bam, one of the airside patrols chase him down for not wearing a HVV. He's a private operator, just by himself. How/where is the requirement that he wear one enforced on him, and how was he even informed? How could they legally deny him access to his airplane?

[Clare Prop]

How indeed. I asked them that, still waiting for the answer.

As for the parking meters, well there are cars parked all over the place but the bits where the meters are....

*crickets*

[Mach E Avelli]

Let's take their hi viz safety case to its ultimate conclusion.
All motorised vehicles and bicycles should only come in one colour - hi viz yellow. Including all aircraft. All other colours should be herewith declared illegal and any such should be put off the road or out of the air.
All buildings airside should also be hi viz yellow, lest we hit them.
All pedestrians should wear hi viz clothing. All swimmers, ditto, so that the surf lifesavers can spot them. Babies and their prams, so Mums do not lose them and Dads do not reverse over them in their yellow station wagons.
A sea of yellow. What a pretty sight. We can do away with the paramedics because accidents will no longer be tolerated.
Then I will be the man in black. For my own safety.

[Seagull V]

I notice that the Oz Defence Force folks all wear hi-vis vests over their camo gear.

[Like This - Do That]

I notice that the Oz Defence Force folks all wear hi-vis vests over their camo gear.

Yep, on the flight line (no objections), as OIC practice or safety sup on the range for some practices (OK), when in the vehicle compound (errr I guess), in the hangar when anyone is operating a forklift (ahhh enough is enough :ugh:).

We also have to sign off risk assessments before doing a basic fitness assessment or unit PT:yuk:

Workplace Safety is crucial but the mindless over-reaction is starting to grate. It has reached a stage where it affects capability adversely without preventing injuries.

[Towering Q]

I can't possibly wear one of those high-vis vests.....mere mortals will be unable to admire all my bling!:cool:

[YPJT]

LTDT, sounds like it has gotten worse in the military since my time. All we had to do was quote a few relevant chapters of MOHS in the range instruction, grab the wpns, ammo, first aid kit and fire fighting gear and off we went. Those were the good old days. :8

[VH-XXX]

Is it inappropriate to say that vests are a good thing at Moorabbin when taxiing late in the day or at night because otherwise I wouldn't be able to see 90% of the Oxford students?

[porch monkey]

Yeah, it is a bit. But funny as!:ok:

[Fred Gassit]

This thread has got me thinking about how at least once or twice a month catering trucks/tankers/baggage carts-whatever will cut in front of our taxiing jet, look at the driver, mostly they simply didn't see you.

If they fail to notice a moving 40 ton jet I'm just not sure how conspicuous a 5 foot dayglo dude is supposed to be.

[Like This - Do That]

I can't possibly wear one of those high-vis vests.....mere mortals will be unable to admire all my bling!

TQ, man I know .... vest covers up my rank slide and the RAAFie loadies call me "mate" until they hear my diggers call me "Boss" :eek: Quelle horreur!!!!!

YPJT, that's a really interesting point you bring up, and risks a bit of thread drift ... MLW 2-9-2 (soon to be replaced by a new pam) contains all the needful for running a gazetted live fire practice. Indeed, CATC state unequivocally that range instructions and risk analyses are NOT NEEDED for gazetted live fire practices. That is what 2-9-2 is for .... but no CO accepts that and like lemmings we slave away cut'n ' n ' past'n old instructions and redoing old RAS's to produce an instruction for the CO to sign IOT run a simple F88 LF6. :yuk:

We subbies have more important things to do with our time, like mornos, pay week raffles, agitating / lobbying to get on the next rotation of Op WHATEVER .... :E

[Sunfish]

So nothing has changed from 1970?

[industry insider]

This has reminded me that I need to get some of my own high vis vests for work. I think I will have mine with 4 stripes embroidered on each shoulder in a contrasting colour and the word Captain on the front and back. That way, the mere plebs will KNOW I am the boss!

[Mach E Avelli]

Insider, you can probably buy one of those off the shelf from England. The Poms would insist on such attire. Even their raincoats and pullovers are modified to display their shoulder bars and at uniform issue they get, or purchase, extra sets of bars just to be sure that every dress code is catered for.

[Typhoon650]

Over the top OH&S is being driven by private companies specialising in training and assessment in this area plus legislation being pushed by such companies into law. It's also driven by lazy companies merely hiring said risk assessment companies and implementing their over zealous recommendations.
It's a huge money spinner and most of it is implemented by people who've never been out of an air conditioned room for their whole working lives.
As an example, I've been driving forklifts for 20 years but only last year did I finally decide to get a fork ticket. Instead of being able to go straight to the written exam and practical test, I had to hand over $400 and waste a full day at an approved training facility.
I've been working in trades for over 20 years and haven't seen a workplace incident that would've been eliminated by a hi viz vest.

[Ultralights]

Seagull V I notice that the Oz Defence Force folks all wear hi-vis vests over their camo gear.


haven't seen the Army or Navy rotary wing guys wear it regularly. RAAF, can't be sure..

[drpixie]

You're missing the point of hi-vis vests - they're not to prevent accidents - the vest makes it easier to find the bits AFTER an accident.

[601]

I love it when requirements from risk assessment companies conflict with the AFM or the Regs.

With to many Hi-vis vests around the workplace, in Maccas, Coles and Wollies, they will just become visual "background noise." The OH&S crowd will have to dream up something else.

Maybe flashing LEDs, front and back.

[Sunfish]

You can get them with the words "Air Crew" on the back!

Armstrong Aviation Clothing - Pilots uniforms and accessories (http://www.armstrongaviationclothing.com/product_info.php?products_id=48&osCsid=g02c71to7691bsm383ao6e4lcimdav7v9q5frl4cr7clput3l2a1)

[norwester33]

Before I joined the ranks of high payed pilot dudes I did a bit of welding here and there and trust me a jumped up pyscho saftey man making me wear my synthetic fluro when overhead welding was comical we were going through 2 a day, they were smouldering and melting all day but we were SAFE.
Saftey is about training the individual and getting his/her mindset right and getting them to operate safley similar to defensive driving courses, but thats my humble opinion.:ok:

[industry insider]

I am tempted Sunny but simple Air Crew is just not enough status. I want "Captain" on mine otherwise someone may think I was "cabin" Air Crew;)

[Checkboard]

I knew a guy who had his surname emblazoned across the back in 5cm high black letters :D

.. he was sacked for being an idiot, which was unconnected to the hi-vis, but it was a definite indicator!