CPL Application

[Okavango]

Looking at the new Form SRG1183A, on applying for your licence, you need to send off:

Copy of Part-FCL Examiners Approval Certificate
Certified copy of passport (only by head of ATO)
Certified copy of Certificate of Revalidation (only by head of ATO)

Are these really needed? At the time of the flight test (last summer when I didn't have the requisite hours for issue) the Examiner did all the checks (and I paid the CAA a princely sum to send him) plus he gave me a carbon copy of his test report. Why can only the head of the ATO certify copies??

Section 8 has to be filled out and signed off by HoT at the ATO conducting the Theoretical Training so I also have to go to BGS!! For Lords sake - they have all this information already and I have the exam pass records! I'm sure all this paper and signature chasing wasn't required before?

Final question - my Class 1 Med has expired though I have no intention of using the CPL immediately - can it be issued with only a Class 2? Thanks.

[BigGrecian]

In practice:

Copy of Part-FCL Examiners Approval Certificate

Not required if it was an examiner from the same state of licence issue. I.e UK examiner and UK issued CPL.

Certified copy of passport (only by head of ATO)

Not required if you all ready hold a PPL issued by the same country if not then yes - or the original must be sent.

Certified copy of Certificate of Revalidation (only by head of ATO)

Not required if previous state of issue is the same as new state of issue.

Section 8 has to be filled out and signed off by HoT at the ATO conducting the Theoretical Training so I also have to go to BGS!!

Yes is required.

Final question - my Class 1 Med has expired though I have no intention of using the CPL immediately - can it be issued with only a Class 2? Thanks.

Your class 1 must be valid at time of licence issue - so you'll need to renew for the application to be accepted.

You need to read :
IN-2012/206: Important Information regarding licence applications | Publications | About the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=5343)
as well as now if the licence is rejected then they return it to you, and then you have to resubmit it from scratch.

My recommendation is to get as many signatures as possible it won't take more than 1-2 emails - may as well get the ATO to certify the revalidation pages - any good ATO (FTO) will oblige.

I've had to re-sign the new new 1183 many times since the introduction of EASA.

Congratulations on the CPL!

Good luck with the job hunt.

[Martin1234]

IN-2012/206: Important Information regarding licence applications | Publications | About the CAA

That must be one of the most customer unfriendly actions I've ever seen from any authority. Wouldn't it be better to charge a small surcharge for an incomplete application instead?

[Okavango]

Many thanks BigGrecian - good to know there's someone out there with a handle on the situation. They could improve the Guidance Notes as it can be assume dthat the vast majority of UK CAA applications will be UK examiner and UK issued CPL, already hold a PPL issued by the same country.

A couple of further queries:

Section 9 requests input of 'hours dual flight instruction in accordance with Appendix 3, Section E, Paragraph 11, though there is no such Appendix. I assume this is just the flight instruction hours recorded on the course though would be grateful if you could confirm? Thanks

Lastly in Section 7 there is an 'Important Note: Any flight entries recorded within a pilot log, for the same date as Pilot in Command and Dual will only be countable as Dual flight for licensing purposes'. I don't quite follow the reasoning for this?

[BigGrecian]

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:311:0001:0193:EN:PDF

The reference you are referring to is compex time.

The reference in Section 7 is referring to training normally conducted under FAA regulations where you can log PIC once qualified on type even when you are under instruction. Under EASA regulations and previously JAA this is only dual and not PIC.
It's a daft rule and the FAA is the only country I know of which has this rule.

[b.a. Baracus]

Good afternoon.

I am probably going to regret asking this...but... Section 13 'Confirmation of Skills Test' - Does this section require completion by the examiner who conducted the test or can any registered examiner complete this section?

The form does not make it clear.

The reason I ask is that it could be a logistical challenge to obtain the test examiners signature whereas there are other locally available examiners.

I must admit, I find SRG 1183A to be bordering on the edge of overkill. Most of the information is already held on CAA files - i.e. completion of ground school / ATPL examinations.

[BigGrecian]

Yes it must be the examiner who did the test.

Scan / fax and email / fax return is sufficient.

Most examiners should be familiar.

[b.a. Baracus]

Thanks BG.

[Linda Mollison]

Okavango

Section 8 has to be filled out and signed off by HoT at the ATO conducting the Theoretical Training so I also have to go to BGS!!

You don't have to visit BGS. Send a copy of the blank form to them and they will sign and scan it and e-mail it back to you. This is acceptable to the CAA.

b.a. Baracus asked:

I am probably going to regret asking this...but... Section 13 'Confirmation of Skills Test' - Does this section require completion by the examiner who conducted the test or can any registered examiner complete this section?

Big Grecian responded:

Yes it must be the examiner who did the test.

This is not true. Our Head of training (who is an IRE and an FE CPL) usually signs this section for all of our students. The instruction for this section states 'To be completed by the holder of an Examiner Certificate issued in accordance with Part-FCL', not the examiner who carried out the test.
The section does not say that the examiner signing it carried out the test, only that 'the test has been completed' and the applicant 'meets the experience requirement for licence issue'. Therefore it can be signed by any examiner.

[BigGrecian]

This is not true. Our Head of training (who is an IRE and an FE CPL) usually signs this section for all of our students. The instruction for this section states 'To be completed by the holder of an Examiner Certificate issued in accordance with Part-FCL', not the examiner who carried out the test.
The section does not say that the examiner signing it carried out the test, only that 'the test has been completed' and the applicant 'meets the experience requirement for licence issue'. Therefore it can be signed by any examiner.

I thought so too until the Civil sent back an application, so just jump through that hoop directly. I haven't found a problem though as emailing a copy always works.

Unfortunately the goal posts seem to change depending on who processes the application at the CAA.

[Linda Mollison]

We will await our time then!

I agree - it does depend who is checking the application. We get a number of French students who want to transfer their SEP from France to the UK when they get their UK CPL/IR issued. Our students all do the CPL in an MEP aircraft, so they do not do an SEP test.

Previously, they simply wrote a short note with their application asking the CAA to organise it. The CAA then contacted the DGAC and hey presto, all done.

Not this time. The student was asked to complete a form SRG 119A. When I queried this, I was told that all he needed to complete on this form was his name and address and to sign the financial declaration at the end.

So that they can collect their extra £120 for SEP issue I suppose.

[Redland]

Can some one explain exactly what this means in section 7


"IMPORTANT NOTE:

Any flight entries recorded within a pilot log, for the same date as
Pilot in Command and Dual will only be countable as Dual flight for
licensing purposes"

Does that mean that if I go for a check ride in the morning and then fly solo in the afternoon both flights should be recored as dual?