WW2 Lancaster Bombing run 1944

[hippocrates]

Just reading through the logbook of a recently deceased relative.

'Bombed visually. Good visibility M.B and D.M.B not heard.'

Can anyone enlighten me about what M.B and D.M.B were?

[kenparry]

Master Bomber and Deputy Master Bomber, perhaps? The log book entry implies that they did not bomb on markers as dropped by the Pathfinders.

[ORAC]

Pathfinder (http://www.rafbombercommand.com/tactics_pathfinders.html) Master Bomber and Deputy Master Bomber

[aw ditor]

Probably Master Bomber and Deputy Master Bomber.

[hippocrates]

Thanks so much for speedy replies.
Later entry reads

'Good vis. Bombed Yellow T.I. Aircraft hit by flack. Two runs on target. Flack accurate.'

Really sobering read.

[Wensleydale]

If you can lay your hands on the book The Bomber Command War Diaries: An Operational Reference Book, 1939-45 by Martin Middlebrook and Chris Everitt, then you can reference the dates of the raids that your relative flew against the details of the raids as recorded by Bomber Command. This often puts the individual log book entry into context with the main Bomber Command effort for the night and helps you to understand the log book entries a little better. Most libraries can get you a copy.

[Basil]

'Good vis. Bombed Yellow T.I. Aircraft hit by flack. Two runs on target. Flack accurate.'
Bloody hell! I wonder what the crew reaction was when told that they would be making a second run. "Oh FFS!" would be mild.

[hippocrates]

Note to self....

Will visit the Bomber Command Memorial as soon as I can.

A truly remarkable read this afternoon, numerous operational entries, at least one admission to an RAF Hospital for injuries sustained from flack and then back on ops!
Last few sorties were POW repatriations.

I will raise a glass to a remarkable old boy who kept very quiet about his past!

[caiman27]

Is there any chance that you can post up a few entries?

[hippocrates]

First time using App.....
Logbook back with his son who is off to Kew next week to do more digging.
When I see it again I will try and post a few more entries.

[angels]

hippo - the 'RAF brevet' is just the place for memoirs/diaries like this!

[cockney steve]

Hippo, compared with your "find", my contribution was very mundane and pedestrian.
You will find that a digital camera will "snap" a page perfectly. I have done so with the diary I've been privileged to share and whenI get off my lazy arse, I'll learn how to reduce the pixel-count (plenty of prompts on the PPrune pages!) and post them for everyone's edification.

Please do the same! These Wartime-diaries,with their laconic, brief entries,contain a huge amount of implied information about the courage and fortitude of the combatants.

[Wensleydale]

A truly remarkable read this afternoon, numerous operational entries, at
least one admission to an RAF Hospital for injuries sustained from flack and
then back on ops!
Last few sorties were POW repatriations.


If you know which Squadron he flew with (will probably be in the log book) then you may be able to look him up on Squadron Association web-sites etc. For example, the F540s (operational records) for 467 and 463 Sqns that flew from Waddington during this period at the end of the war are available on line. The other alternative is to find the site from which he flew - they may have an attached Heritage Centre or small museum archive including photographs. Most of these sites can be discovered on line and have access to researchers, historians etc who may be able to find more informtion about your relative.

The POW repatriations came under "Operation Exodus" and were flown over April/May 1945. (While 1Gp were flying Op Manna - dropping food for the Dutch).

Good Hunting,

W

[Motleycallsign]

One of the entries in my father's logbook notes '1000lb H E thru' stbd wing'. He flew with 50 Sqn on Ops through 1944/45.

[Pontius Navigator]

Motley, did he ever mention that?

You will have a date and there will be a record of that. I have seen pictures of such bomb damage. You never know your father might be in one. What was his branch?

[Motleycallsign]

He mentioned it on one occaision PN. Looking at his logbook (which I have) it happened on 16 Nov 44 on a daylight raid on Dueren. He was a Mid Upper Gunner so would have seen the damage at close quarters.

[Wensleydale]

it happened on 16 Nov 44 on a daylight raid on Dueren


Waddington flew 30 Lancasters that day (15 each from 463 & 467) against the same daylight target, which is listed as "Troop Positions" - no doubt preparation for "Operation Clipper", the attack on the Geilenkirchen Salient, which started less than 2 days later. Geilenkirchen lies just a few miles north of Duren. (50 Sqn flew from Skellingthorpe which together with Bardney came under administrative control of Waddington as Base 53).

Other towns attacked that day were Julich (near Duren) and Heinzburg which is to the north of the salient. All three towns were described as "virtually destroyed". In addition to 1,188 aircraft from Bomber Command, 1,239 bomber aircraft from the USAAF were also deployed for the attack. There is little surprise at congestion over the target and aircraft being hit by bombs from above. Only 4 Lancasters were lost during the raids however. It seems fortunate that there was not a fifth! (Figures thanks to Martin Middlebrook's "Bomber Command War Diaries").

[clicker]

I have a copy of The Bomber Command War Diaries.

While its a book of facts and figures its an interesting read when you compare the early and later years regarding size of raids, squadron details etc.

Hippo, if you want any facts from dates hapy to give you a brief run down on that entries for them.

[hippocrates]

Thanks Clicker,
Don't have logbook in my hands but the 5th, 7th and 10th August 1944 stuck in my mind by that time he was with 635 Sqn out of Downham Market.
The logbook generated family discussion and someone mentioned another diary......Further relative captured as a desert rat, POW through North Africa then Italy and ended up in Stalag something before 'the long walk'.
He kept a diary every day written in his Grenadier Guards diary. In pencil, documenting everything, even the 'friendly' and 'most accommodating' Italian ladies when they were put to work in the Italian fields!
All his POW 'money' is there as well as dog tags etc
Again very little said about it when he was alive.
He sadly died last year and i must talk to his wife about giving this amazing historical find to the guards museum or IWM.
Hippo

[Pontius Navigator]

hippo, unless he was air force he may well have been in a Stalag and not Stalag Luft:

List of prisoner-of-war camps in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoner-of-war_camps_in_Germany#World_War_II_POW_Camps)

[hippocrates]

That's me with my Airforce centric head on!!:O
Error corrected.

[November4]

Re post #19

635 Sqn

No losses recorded between 5th and 10th Aug. There were Lancasters shot down on 4 Aug. The pilot of one was Sqn Ldr IW Bazalgette DFC (http://www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/bazalgette.html). He was awarded the VC on 17 Aug 1944

5 Aug 1944
Flying bomb sites. 742 aircraft - 469 Halifaxes, 257 Lancasters, 16 Mosquitoes of 4, 5, 6, and 8 Gpos, attacked the Foret de Nieppe and St-Leu-d'Esserent storage sites. Bombing conditions were good. 1 Halifax lost from St-Leu-d'Esserent raid.
31 Lancasters and 8 Mosquitoes of 8 Gp attempted to carry out small "Oboe leader" raids on 4 launching sites but only 9 aircraft succeed in bombing. None lost.

Oil Storage Depots
306 Lancasters of 1, 3 and 8 Gps attacked targets on the River Gironde at Blaye. Bordeaux and Pauillac with excellent results. 1 Lancaster lost. 30 Mosquitoes of 100 Gp escorted these forces without loss.

Brest
15 Lancasters and 2 Mosquitoes of 617 Sqn attacked the U-Boat pens and scored 6 direst hits with Tallboys. 1 Lancaster shot down by flak.

Etaples
14 Lancasters of 5 Gp attacked the railway bridge but the target was obsucered by smoke and dust and no results could be seen.

Total effort for the day 1,148 sorties, 3 aircraft (0.3 percent) lost

7 Aug 1944
Minor Operations
25 Lancasters and 2 Mosquitoes of 5Gp recalled form a raid on U-Boat pens at Lorient with out bombing. 1 Wellington flew an RCM sorties. No aircraft lost.

10 Aug 1944
Dugny
98 Lancasters and 5 Mosquitoes of 1 and 8 Gps attacked aviation - fuel storage tanks at Dugny, near Paris. The bombing started badly but then became concentrated. No aircraft lost.

Ferme-Du-Forestal
60 Lancasters of 1Gp and 20 Pathfinder Mosquitoes attempted to bomb a flying bomb site but cloud caused difficulties and only 17 Mosquitoes and 13 Lancasters attacked, possibly because the 1Gp aircraft were unused to Oboe-leader technique. No aircraft lost.

4 Wellingtons flew RCM sorties without loss.

[clicker]

And the entry for 635 Sqd reads

Formed as a Pathfinder squadron in 8 Group on 20 March 1944 and flew Lancasters from Downham Market until the end of the war.

635 Squadron flew 2,225 Lancaster sorties and lost 34 aircraft (1.5 per cent) in 189 raids. 7 further Lacasters were destoryed in crashes.

Points of interest.
Victoria Cross: Squadron Leader I.W. Bazagette, DFC, posthumously, Trossy-St-Maxin flying bomb site, 4th August 1944.
Carroed out first operational trials of Lancaster Mark VI from July to November 1944.

unquote

November4, thanks for covering the raid details.

[Temp Spike]

All in all though I think night bombing was only deemed 3% accurate against military manufacturing and only 20% accurate against even hitting the manufacturing city early in the war.

The National Archives Learning Curve | World War II | Western Europe 1939-1945: Hamburg | Why did the RAF bomb cities? (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/worldwar2/theatres-of-war/western-europe/investigation/hamburg/sources/docs/7/)

[brokenlink]

N4, if it is of any interest, one of the Pavilions at Wyton bears Sqn Ldr Bazalgettes name (the others are named Swales, Palmer and Bennett) in honour of the PFF.