Video of a 350 crashing into water at Copacabana

[HeliHenri]

Fortunately, the end is happy :ok:

This is an aircraft of the Navy Fire Dept of Rio during a rescue operation (swimmer in distress)

Helicóptero de resgate cai no mar de Copacabana - Vídeos - Assista todos os vídeos publicados - O Globo - Catálogo de Vídeos (http://oglobo.globo.com/videos/t/todos-os-videos/v/catalogo/2319024)

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[Hughes500]

Didnt look like an engine failure as there was no yaw although the coning angle looked great. Not vortex ring, ran out of power ?????

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Crikey!

What's all that about then?

Why would it just "run out of power"?

[Flyting]

There is no way that B2 or B3 ran out of power...
Sea level, you could probably put another 6 adults in there and hover.


"It's the first time it happens with a corporate aircraft, and still do not know what caused the accident. Just know that the crew were rescued alive, with only minor injuries," said Simoes.
Low RPM lights on and horn, said the pilot... from Heliops on FB

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Please try not to mention HeliOps too much on this forum!

There's a good chap. ;) :E

[toptobottom]

You can clearly see the temporal aliasing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon-wheel_effect)effect in the TR caused by the decaying RPM, which would indicate a loss of power.

[USL-Toad]

The pax hanging out the door gets back in pretty sharpish possibly suggesting hearing something wrong or a heads up from the aircrew? Suggesting the problem may not have been instantaneous?

[HeliHenri]

The pax hanging out the door gets back in pretty sharpish possibly suggesting hearing something wrong or a heads up from the aircrew

;) Well ..., this is an aircraft of the fire dept and the "pax" is a rescue diver part of the crew !

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[albatross]

Strange one - looking at the spray he was into wind - so Vortex Ring or Settling with Power unlikely.
Looks like a power loss of some kind. If so they did a good job on the ditching- flare, level, cushion - splash.
Glad everybody got out and no rotor parts broke off and headed for the beach.
Gotta say the people in the water were swimming to the rescue in quick time - good on them!

[Cleared-HOT]

Please try not to mention HeliOps too much on this forum!

At least the poster is giving proper credit to where he got the info from which is more than most members here do..:D

[Senior Pilot]

Please try not to mention HeliOps too much on this forum!

There's a good chap. ;) :E

No problems from me,

[Flyting]

Thanks Senior Pilot...
Anthony, don't shoot the messenger...

[topendtorque]

So - what is wrong with rolling the aircraft into the advancing blade, so's it will take xmon and other paraphernalia out rearwards, thus allowing an organized egress into the briny. Hopefully the door that side in this case will be still locked shut.

[Thomas coupling]

Topendtq: You really think he (a) knew about that phenomenon and (b) gave a s*it:eek: He kept it level (ish) which probably saved the loose cannon in the back form being catapulted thru the windscreen.
Lucky boys!

[SASless]

Why do folks insist upon flying over water without Floats?:ugh:

[chopjock]

what is wrong with rolling the aircraft into the advancing blade

Presumably this would have to be done whilst still having rrpm high enough.
What's better, roll with high rpm or loose rpm and splash level?

[chopjock]

Interestingly the tail rotor stopped turning before the main rotor, indicating a drive failure after hitting the water.

[topendtorque]

TC,

will enjoy meeting you one day and many of your countryfolk.

cheers tet

[toptobottom]

Interestingly the tail rotor stopped turning before the main rotor, indicating a drive failure after hitting the water.

At the risk of sounding confrontational, why is that interesting? Spinning at 2,000 rpm ish and hitting the water is inevitably going to cause a TR failure :confused:

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Flyting - did you see my smiley faces? There's a clue for you there!

Why do folks insist upon flying over water without Floats?

Because its more convenient. Because "we're not going to have an emergency". Because installing emergency floats is time consuming. Because the aircraft is lighter without them.

Interestingly the tail rotor stopped turning before the main rotor, indicating a drive failure after hitting the water.

It is very likely that on impact the t/r driveshaft was rendered ineffective. Look at videos of Squirrel crashes and almost always the very first thing to happen is a loss of structural integrity to the tail.

[chopjock]

At the risk of sounding confrontational, why is that interesting?

Interesting in that another squirrel will be recovered with a broken tail drive.
The one on the other thread was debated whether or not it could have happened in flight.

[toptobottom]

Well, we can see the decaying TR RPM as I said in my previous post, but with no yaw, either the power loss was gradual or the pilot had the reactions of a mongoose. Hitting the water first, the TR was bound to fail and stop. Also, the pilot reported hearing the low RPM horn.

[griffothefog]

My 50 cents.. Looks to me like he has a control failure of some kind (possibly hydraulic) the way he is pitching about the place.. :eek:

We wait to see :ok:

[AnFI]

SASless - surely an example of why floats are not necessary... eh?

[Arm out the window]

Don't mention ze hydraulics!!

[Dr Zeke]

Looks like a straightforward sudden power loss, rotor decay confirmed by the coning.... Perfect work by that pilot :)

[army_av8r]

maybe it is the beer, but im pretty sure i can see a small right yaw, combine that with the fact that this helicopter was in a low power deceleration, the unloading of torque would have been minimal at best... well played sir! very nice to see one work out OK!

[Matari]

Short video of the old girl being flipped right side up on the beach. Tailboom is intact.

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And in the interest of safety, the inflated flotation devices that SASless advocates are amply shown at 0:41- 0:45 here: :E

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[Geoffersincornwall]

If this guy had floats fitted but were not armed then it speaks volumes for the 139 philosophy of having auto-floats always armed over water.

G.

[misterbonkers]

Maybe he elected to ditch in that location deliberately? Popping the floats and alighting into that surf could have resulted in the aircraft being washed ashore into the crowds uncontrollably with the rotors spinning...!

[toptobottom]

errrm.. he doesn't have any floats, but I'd say he had quite a bit of time to choose his spot - the rotor RPM decays relatively slowly and the ROD is low. The beach was crowded so he put it down neatly behind the rollers. Even matey standing on the skid was told to get back in (albeit rather late!). Good job :ok:
Anyone know the driver?

[SASless]

Bonkers.....you are saying it is better to have no floats as that means one can make a safer ditching into the water than popping the floats and landing on top of the water...right?

Even if the surf had turned the aircraft over it would have been safer to have floats as it makes getting out of the aircraft a lot safer as the aircraft is on or at the surface rather than headed for the bottom which in some cases is a very long ride.


Matari.....yes the left hand set of flotation gear you pointed out would bear a lot of investigation I would think....with lots of hands on testing and protracted examination.

[chopjock]

Is it better to have floats?

I frequently fly over water. When I'm mid channel I sometimes wish I had floats.
However when I coast in I'm glad I didn't.
As we all know, floats cost money and slow the aircraft down.

[Anthony Supplebottom]

None of the helicopters in any of the videos are float equipped so I'm not sure what SAS and Matari are on about!

Ok scrub that - I think I can guess what that was about just that the clip doesn't do it justice being Brazil etc. you know they're mean't to be top of the line aren't they?.

[Aesir]

It is certainly better to have these floats than none at all..

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z171/Icepicture/floats_zps94fba045.jpg

[misterbonkers]

Sasless...

No I'm not saying that. It looks like he has floats and other posters are asking why he didn't pop them.

Yes they could have been unarmed. But I'm saying maybe he chose not to pop them and just ditch in the shallow instead. The water was warm enough afterall. What I'm saying is if the beach was as crowded as it looks, would it be a good thing for the aircraft to float in controllable on wild surf with blades spinning and sailing onto a shoreline full of curious onlookers? (the lemming affect).

Also, ditching into the wild surf would tumble them around more so than the calmer water so putting the occupants at more risk of disorientation/cabin injuries and making harder to get out of the cabin.

[Flyting]

floats cost money and slow the aircraft down
......did we skip a few months forward to April??? :ugh: Spoken like a true 'jock'



The statements of the year are starting early this year.....:D:D:D

[Senior Pilot]

Sasless...

No I'm not saying that. It looks like he has floats and other posters are asking why he didn't pop them.

I've looked and looked, but I can't see any floats (fixed or popouts) on the AS350. Unless the skid tubes are sealed and full of nitrogen :hmm:

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[toptobottom]

mb - are you looking at the same video? This chap definitely doesn't have floats which is why, we assume, he elected to ditch where he did - close enough to get to shore quickly without getting tangled up in the rollers and deep enough to allow a quick exit (basic HUET stuff).

[Anthony Supplebottom]

As I said earlier, there are NO floats on any of the helicopters in any of the videos.

Matari and SAS (as I finally figured out) are in fact talking about women!

Hope this clears-up the new year's confusion!

[Nubian]

For the ones that is debating wheter the pilot elected to pop the floats or not, it is a matter of if you know this type aircraft and if you should pass the next medical exam due to eyesight. Any type of floats for this model is for the ones not knowing the aircraft, very visible from that distance if they are installed.....

As for the pilot electing just that spot, is if you look at the video just about the only place he would have available. The time from the apparent problem to contact with water is just 4 seconds and the height above water I estimate to be 30ft, there is not a whole lot you can do in that scenario I am affraid...

[nigelh]

I have never had floats but if I flew over water regularly I would !!
If I had floats I would always arm them over water and cannot see any scenario where I would elect to not fire them over water ...... Even with swimmers :ok: