Lakeland valleys.

[The Mighty Fin]

Hello forum members, i am a massive military aviation fan, and i have been lucky enough to be brought up in an area where the RAF conduct Low Flying operations ( Cumbria ). The one question i would like to ask any aircrew on here would be, why are the western valleys in the Lakes not as regularly used as lets say, the middle of LFA17? the valleys in question are Ennerdale, Buttermere, and Wasdale. The do get traffic but not as frequent as Ullswater Etc. If any one can point me in the right direction to the question i would be appreciative. Also i have good mate who flew Tornados he is an Ex Bat and Crusader and is currently a Wing Co.:ok:

[High_Expect]

From Valley LFA 17 is kind of narrow with lot of funnel features. Avoids and ranges to the west so a usual route would be enter at Ulverston then north up Windermere and exit into Scotland by Carlisle or head east towards Newcastle then north or south. Most routes tend to go from A-B using a hi-lo-hi profile so going around in circles doesn't happen very often unless the weather is bad everywhere or we're doing evasion. Regards H_E

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Agreed. Your only options once you've been down one of them is to turn nearly 360 and go back up another one. You wouldn't plan a route like that for real, so it doesn't get done in training. Plus you are exposed for a while going across the main peaks.
Went down Wasdale once only, then south. Purely co-incidental I had a friend living near Broughton-in-Furness.;)

[Easy Street]

All of the western valleys lead up to high ground around Scafell, with effectively the only way out being to cross the Langdale Pikes and drop into the Langdale valley (which is an excellent flat-bottomed S-bend, can heartily recommend). Given that the weather in the Lakes rarely allows a high ridge-crossing, most of us tend to plan for the easily-achieved transit from Grasmere to Keswick instead. Taking any of those western valleys tends to be a more 'spur of the moment' thing in reponse to unusually nice weather and a requirement for some off-planned-route work!

[Milo Minderbinder]

from the point of view of a civilian who spends a lot of time driving around, its easy to see that the commonest northern route (especially for rotary wing) seems to be for aircraft to approach Morecambe Bay from the south or southeast paralleling the M6, passing to the north of Carnforth, following the coast at Silverdale and cutting across the NE of the bay to Meathop, and then either heading north through the Lyth Valley, or passing over Lindale Hill to Newby Bridge and then heading north through Windermere
The other option -especially for Hawks- seems to be to head up the Lune Valley via Kirkby Lonsdale to Tebay
Those three routes look like they give easy access to northbound valleys with decent exits, either through the Lune Gorge, Ullswater, or the Thirlmere / Bassenthwaite axis. Travelling further west - e.g. along Coniston - would run into a blind valley or would force the route further west into the coastal plain over Sellafield

This isn't said with any kind of knowledge - its just what appears to be the case having seen many aircraft on these alignments

[NutLoose]

And if you haven't seen it, a nicely handled engine failure

Mayday - Yakovlev Yak-50, Engine out forced landing video - www.AirCrashObserver.com - YouTube

[Flap62]

Nicely handled?

It could be argued that after initial signs of oil leak he elected to follow a (presumably) GPS steer for home. This involved a climb over high ground with little forced landing options. Eventually deciding this is not a good idea he eventually re-routes over lower ground, still losing oil. Following the inevitable engine failure due to total oil loss the aircraft strikes a wall in the undershoot and is severely damaged. Luckily the pilot escapes injury.

Perhaps the extra stress involving the initial climb hastened the failure. Perhaps a controlled, precautionary landing in a well chosen field under power might have saved the aircraft.

Still, he walked away I suppose.

[Rovertime]

Being often on the hills in the lakes with a camera in hand, I do try and find different locations to shoot low level traffic, Ennerdale > Pillar and the Honister and Hardnott passes do get some activity, but usually when I'm not there! If only I had a time machine to go back a couple of decades with todays camera technology, nowadays its like a needle in a haystack off the main routes described earlier. Still the hill climbing keeps me fit!

Sat on a hill on the west side of Windermere at Belle Isle opposite Bowness, is a great place to watch for volume of movements - sadly just a little too wide for photos unless its closer to the west side than normal - especially if routing via Kirkstone/Ullswater. Occaisionaly you get lucky though!
Its a pretty unique backdrop for low level shots in the UK
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5097/5517535845_3de6bf2155_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ed_evans/5517535845/)
DSC_1894j (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ed_evans/5517535845/) by ed.evans75 (http://www.flickr.com/people/ed_evans/), on Flickr

[orca]

"And you definitely planned this route yourself?"
"Yup."
"I was expecting the Lake District to be a little more rural..."

[Tankertrashnav]

You sure your aunty lives down this street Hoskins?

[Kluseau]

In early September 1989, on a hillwalking holiday in the Lake District, driving south down the A591 when we came over the top of the final descent towards Grasmere, to find a Buccaneer, on one wingtip, coming up the road towards us. Quite a moment...

Almost as good as, some years later, crossing the col between Fleetwith Pike and Haystacks just as a Tornado climbed up out of Warnscale Bottom having, presumably, come down Crummock Water and Buttermere. My companion reckoned you could read the maker's name on the navigator's sunglasses. I think that was an exaggeration, but probably not much of one: I don't know, having ducked...:eek:

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I remember a low flying complaint received at our Squadron where it was claimed we were flying so low you could read the name on the helmet. The Boss ordered us to remove names from helmets :E

[The Mighty Fin]

Ennerdale Valley around 1986, on a school Geography outdoor lesson, half the class sat on Anglers Crag, and 2 Tornados came roaring up the valley, whilst these lads were far from being strangers in these skies, some of the class were amazed that we were on level terms with the 2 Tonkas:eek: although they nearly enough every day back then, they came roaring over our School in Egremont.:D

[NutLoose]

I put a low flying complaint in against 54 squadron Jaguars as they passed close to our village near Carlisle many moons ago.... :O
They asked how I knew what Squadron they were from, i pointed out the markings and aircraft number...... One was on leave at the time from a certain German Jaguar squadron, but I seemed to have missed telling them that...

:p

[typerated]

I always thought it was a good idea to link the central valley, A66 and Ulswater/Kirkstone pass together into a roundabout.

Clockwise or anticlockwise is then the question

[NutLoose]

Alcohol Pinkfin... alcohol.

[ian176]

Clockwise or anticlockwise is then the question

Mon, Wed, Fri clockwise.
Tues & Thurs anticlockwise.

[NutLoose]

Flap 62

Post major maintenance/life extension at EGMJ a YAK 50 loses oil pressure over the Lake District at 1250ft. Engine runs until dry before seizing, gearbox u/s and windmilling prop at 3100ft followed by glide, wheels up (no flaps on the 50) into a rough field with an upslope at 500ft amsl. First impact to full stop 47 metres, first belly impact approx 35 metres. Aircraft did not go through wall, right aileron did contact with a fence post. Wind reported at Carlisle less than 5kts – windmills visible not turning and shutdown. Ground soft. When the engine seized it caused the reduction gearbox to disintegrate hence a windmillling prop and engine shut down with mags off and fuel cut. On inspection the cylinders completely solid, engine core since scrapped.

view AAIB report:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/YAK-50,%20G-YAKK%2008-10.pdf

[typerated]

Mon, Wed, Fri clockwise.
Tues & Thurs anticlockwise.

That was the old Mallet Blow routing - admittedly on a bigger scale - happy days!

[The Mighty Fin]

Typerated,

Happy memories indeed. As young lads playing football in the top fields of Egremont, we had excellent views over the western fells of the Lake District, about 3 miles from us. The amount of traffic we used to get was spectacular. I remember a certain Mallet Blow of around Aug 86' the aircraft were attacking Spade range, and they were in formations of around 18 aircraft per sortie, or wave, every 10 minutes or so.It was un-real, and even when it was'nt a Mallet Blow week or Ex, we always had plenty of traffic out West, usually heading out too 20T or exiting 20T routing West through the Lakes. Hence plenty of awesome noises over Egremont.:E

[Fishtailed]

Some good valley shots on here.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/fishtailed/th_WinterHawk_zpsa29b9566.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/fishtailed/?action=view&current=WinterHawk_zpsa29b9566.mp4)

[The Mighty Fin]

Fishtailed,

Lovely shots, really amazing and that was right down in the weeds sort of flying. Seemed to notice a couple of ' western valleys' amongst this video? any how top stuff and what a nice snowy background which just adds to it all.:ok:

[Rovertime]

A great bit of vintage low level action from a BAE video Crummock water > Buttermere > Honister Pass

Sorry, but I can't get it to embed :(

Honister | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42021519@N07/7167247960/)

HonisterTonkas | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42021519@N07/7167413006/)

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Very nice.

..and the XI Sqn jet just where you'd expect it to be - in your 'six' range 300!

[The Mighty Fin]

Awesome. That was what living in Cumbria was like back then, plenty of valley action, and always some one plying there trade.:ok:

[mantog]

Excellent videos!

[Flap62]

NutLoose,

Ref post#19

Read the report before my initial post.

We will agree to differ on whether it was well handled.