New Chinese Large Transport Aircraft, Y-20

[keesje]

Somewhere inbetween a IL-76 and a A400M?


http://bbs.wforum.com/upfile/images/20121224/20121224085233_81454.jpg

link: ÊÀ½ç¾üÊÂÂÛ̳ - ¸ü¶à´óÔËͼ,ת×ÔCD zt (http://bbs.wforum.com/wmf/bbsviewer.php?trd_id=202954)

It seems they didn't succeed (yet) in realizing modern, high bypass turbofans for this aircraft.

[Matthew Hopkin]

Looks like a beefed up HS146

[Buster Hyman]

I don't like the colour.

[powerstall]

Are those JT8D engines? :confused:

[mini]

Sub Herc sized fuselage with four piss pot turbines... what's the point?

Mock up of some sort if you ask me.

[Squirrel 41]

Looks like a real programme, albeit CANDID sized. From a Russian site (http://bmpd.livejournal.com/266273.html) and via Google Translate:

"Photo caption states that "one of these days AVIC Landing Gear Advanced Manufacturing Co. (Official English title units AVIC) prematurely passed [the customer] sample chassis of a priority project." This "ensures successful execution of the annual targets for the development and manufacture of equipment and weapons."

Chassis presumably intended for future Chinese heavy military transport aircraft Y-20, the development and production preparation of which the company Xian Aircraft Industrial Corporation (HAS) in Xi'an. Earlier it was reported that the aircraft, approximately corresponding to the size of the Russian IL-76, may make its first flight in 2012. At Y-20, at least at first, to be installed Russian engines D-30KP2."

Comment: D-30KP2 are the original CANDID engines - which the Chinese have extensive experience of.

[CoffmanStarter]

Hereafter NATO Designation to be "Yellow Peril" :E

[NutLoose]

I bet even the Chinese aren't thick enough to put an aft side loading door in it, provide a ramp you have to assemble to get the loads in and out and then attempt to sell it as a military tactical freighter as BAe tried to do with the 146

[ORAC]

Crew: 3
Payload Capacity: 60,000-65000 kg
Length: 49 m
Wingspan: 50 m
Height: 15 m
Wing area: 310 m2
Empty weight: 100,000 kg
Max takeoff weight: 220,000 kg
Power: 4×turbofans
Maximum speed: 750-800 km/h
Range: (with max payload) 4,400 km
Service ceiling: 13,000 m

Shaanxi Y-20 (http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/108026-officail-news-y-20-will-fly-next-year.html)

The prototypes and the initial batch may be powered by Russian D-30KP-2/WS-18 turbofans, later by the modified WS-10 (WS-118?)....

[Vick Van Guard]

Indeed NutLoose. It is not as if our MOD fell for that one. ;)

JetPhotos.Net Photo » OO-TAY (CN: E2211) United Kingdom - Royal Air Force (RAF) British Aerospace BAe 146-200(QC) by Dutch (http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7331190)

[glad rag]

Why does the [?] ADD[?] probe have a flipping dayglo background? :hmm:

Not confusing in the slightest......:suspect:

[Pontius Navigator]

Looks pretty?

or not a coat peg?

[B Fraser]

Hereafter NATO Designation to be "Yellow Peril" http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

As it's Christmas, why not "Yellow Snow" ?

[NutLoose]

Now you're taking the p*ss...

Ahh the old ones still work... :E

[keesje]

Mock up of some sort if you ask me.

during the last few yrs several analysts suggested these new chinese machines probably are just fancy mock-ups, and then they took off a few days later..

[Buster Hyman]

Pee-king Duck?

[Trim Stab]

Unusual to see a configuration with such pronounced main wing anhedral, yet a very tall fin. I wonder whether it is optimised to fly max-range with only two engines operating.

[keesje]

This aircraft has been under development for several yrs. Earlier mock-ups, models and artist impressions featured higher BPR engines.

http://centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/20100803-u4c5767426c1e73128.jpg

It seems the Chinese decided they couldn't wait for the right engine and moved ahead with a proven one. They'll continue flight and system testing, taking a hit on range on the initial aircraft.

Looking at the current PLA size and territory they have a pathetic small transport fleet. No doubt the Chinese want several hundred of these (& Y-9) ASAP, so probably little export ambitions.

[Temp Spike]

Looks like a BIG target drone to me.

[Mechta]

The site name says it all. 'C' for China, and as for 'Joby', well, ask any Scotsman... :}

Maybe the small engines are there until the ones they really want are working properly.

[Davef68]

I bet even the Chinese aren't thick enough to put an aft side loading door in it, provide a ramp you have to assemble to get the loads in and out and then attempt to sell it as a military tactical freighter as BAe tried to do with the 146

Soon to appear in RAF colours at a hot and dusty airport near you.........

[NutLoose]

It was I think in the late 70's at Farnborough I first saw the 146 conversion but there it was being pushed as a tactical aircraft and had a Landrover posed on a ramp on the outside, asking the BAe bod at the show where the scaffolding looking ramp came from, he told me they carried it onboard, they land, get out assemble the ramp, jiggle the rover out of the side door and down the ramp, strip it down, throw the ramp back inside the Aircraft shut the door and depart......:p
One thought, Herc it's not.


Though to be in all fairness what the RAF are going to probably use it for, the support vehicles will be available to unload it.

[keesje]

If the chinese show a new aircraft, first flight is close.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Assets/GetAsset.aspx?ItemID=49356

PICTURES: China (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pictures-chinas-y-20-transport-conducts-maiden-flight-381523/)

[Rigga]

"Why does the [?] ADD[?] probe have a flipping dayglo background?"

Might be to show the RVSM protected airflow area?
Might be just to show that there's something sticking out?
Might be because RJ's have that as a mandated Placard? (I don't think the original 146-100/200/300's did)

[Willard Whyte]

Not sure what all the guff about 146 similarities is.

YC-15 however...

Looks like johnny chinaman has been hanging out around 'Century Circle'.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Edw-century-circle-yc15-090429-02-8.jpg

Figures are between YC-15 and the C-17, though a little closer to the '15 overall.

[Buster Hyman]

Nutty, I remember that 146 came to YMML in the mid-late 80's & I grabbed a truckload of promo material. I recall thinking that even the flight crew looked embarrassed standing next to it.

[TBM-Legend]

Looks better than the last "big" airlifter built in the UK - The Belslow...

[keesje]

The chinese have had il-76 for a long time.

Looks like johnny chinaman has been hanging out around 'Century Circle'.

I think the amount of Chinese design's that can't be dismissed as copies is growing..

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z160/keesje_pics/ChineseAircraftDevelopment_zps68950d67.jpg

[500N]

That picture makes interesting viewing.

I am sure the US, UK et al would do the same if
the situation was reversed.

[keesje]

They might want to check out aeroelastic stability of that tail at .34

Chinese Y-20 transport aircraft made its maiden flight on Jan 26, 2013 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/zBShmcDpkoU?t=34s)

[The Helpful Stacker]

Looks better than the last "big" airlifter built in the UK - The Belslow...

Its been 49 years since the Belfast first flew, plenty of time for a country whose top technical capabilities seem to be in industrial espionage to steal designs from, well just about everwhere.

[keesje]

Frankly, if the RAF had a Tornado IDS replacement like this entering production, most wouldn't mind. Second seat maybe, room enough, its a biggy.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z160/keesje_pics/ChinaStealthJ-20_zps950fe42f.jpg

And it is not even on the horizon for Europe..

You need a rich fantasy to say it's a copy of something.

[tonker]

Always ironic to hear people from my country that basically just makes a subsonic jet trainer, mocking the industrial capabilities of a country that has a space program and the ability to seemingly knock out stealth aircraft at will.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Always ironic to hear people from my country that basically just makes a subsonic jet trainer, mocking the industrial capabilities of a country that has a space program and the ability to seemingly knock out stealth aircraft at will.

If that is directed at me, swing and a miss. I'm not from England, I'm from a country that still has a space program and is the only country with an operational manned stealth capability.

Try Googling "Joe Louis Arena", as mentioned in my location, might give you a clue as to which country I originally hail from.

[Ronald Reagan]

Well done to the Chinese for advancing so rapidly, the speed at which they do things is amazing.

As for the comments about space exploration.
Even the US is now taking a back seat in space, its really the Russians who are running the show now with China rapidly advancing and the Indians also making progress. Since the end of the space shuttle and all the financial problems it makes me wonder what future there is for American space exploration, maybe a limited future but taking a back seat to other nations. I never thought it would be the case but it is. Maybe the withdrawl from space exploration is the start of the big decline in other areas to (I hope not).

Unless the first manned mission to Mars is an international type of thing I could see China getting there first, maybe also the first back to the moon. They have the money and time is on their side. By working more closely with the Russians they can gain more and more experience, Chinese money and enterprise combined with Russian space experience/knowledge sound like a match made in heaven!

[keesje]

Well I guess in Europe we all took a backseat on defense. Dramatic cuts in the UK, Netherlands and most other countries. Our newest program A400M seems a good fit for many environments and its seems to perform as specified.

The US, spending a ridiculous percentage of the national income on defense, (4.7% ! List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures#SIPRI_Yearbook_20 12_.E2.80.93_World.27s_top_15_military_spenders) ) finally gets in trouble with its population demanding investments in other areas.

The Chinese have 1.3 billion people, a long history, a long term agenda, lots of money and ambitions. India seem lagging behind. The Japanese, Korea, Indonesia are quietly moving along.

There's a clear shift of power going on in the world, we might not like it, but no-one is asking our approval. This Y-20 is important for China. They easily need hundreds.

[Heathrow Harry]

the Chinese also spend bugger all on pensions, social security and their health service

[Ronald Reagan]

keesje, I would have thought 4.7% is a very low percentage. I wonder where the biggest shares of the spending is going!
I think the US will decline in a big way, right now they are by far the most powerful nation on Earth and I think will stay that way for a while. But give it maybe 20 years, possibly less and I can see a China that is stronger. The trouble for the USA is that they cannot afford to keep the military at its current size, the Chinese however can afford to expand, so as one side shrinks the other will grow. Maybe they will pass each other along the way! Even after this though unless the US falls apart they will still be a major power, they may not be the strongest but I don't think many would wish to take them on. On the other hand they will have to accept no longer being number one.
India to will be important but not in my opinion as strong as China. Russia will be very powerful to, with so many resources and her military power she should be able to dominate Europe fairly well, I think Russia will be a major global power again, more important than she is now, probably in the top two or three.
Europe is the continent which will be totally out of it, in economic decline and in military terms only a paper tiger, no match for Russia or China even now.

[West Coast]

Curious on the news clip that only reversers on 1 and 4 deployed. Wonder how the TR system works compared to its look a like the C17.

[zero1]

Take a look at the video clip, is it me or does the fin/elevators move around a lot during the landing roll... I think I need to go to Spec Savers again or have another glass of wine.

[Rosevidney1]

They might want to check out aeroelastic stability of that tail at .34

Chinese Y-20 transport aircraft made its maiden flight on Jan 26, 2013 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/zBShmcDpkoU?t=34s)


Blimey. Not a very reassuring motion.:uhoh:

[keesje]

Reagan the EU and China won't need 20 yrs to right pass the US as economic powers. (have they already?) But as long as the US population can be influenced to believe it is normal / a duty / right / destiny to spend 2-4 as much on weapons / defense as the rest of the developed world, the US can claim to have the biggest kick ass army to protect them. If the rest of the world thinks that makes them the most powerful nation is a question. They just move on is my guess.

[barnstormer1968]

Tonker
I have to take serious issue with you opinion of the UK aircraft industry in post
#33.

The UK aircraft industry is amazing, it must take some serious planning and expertise for an industry as large as the UK has to produce so very little :E

[keesje]

Well, since most of the high tech in our houses comes from China these days, why not buy them.. maybe the argies will.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z160/keesje_pics/ChinaStealthJ-20_zps950fe42f.jpg

Can someone photoshop a nice RAF livery ;)