Spit or Swallow?

[BEagle]

Following his earlier enthusiastic programme about creating and building a 1:1 'Airfix' Spitfire, James May followed it up with an excellent programme last night on BBC-TV about scaling up a model Swallow glider to cross an equivalent distance to a Dover-Calais channel crossing.

The programme will be repeated at 0-dark-00 on BBC1 on Saturday morning and is also available on the BBC iPlayer.

Apart from some rather childish moments deliberately allowing both a £40 toy helicopter and a styrofoam Piper Cub to crash, the programme was, I thought, very good indeed. In fact better than the Spit programme was.

So which programme do other PPRuNers think was better - the Spit or the Swallow?

[Ivor Fynn]

Swallow, great program. Now he has done spit and swallow it will be interesting to see if he does gargle or paint.:ok:

Ivor

[P6 Driver]

I only viewed part of it last night - unfortunately, I would prefer both programmes to be without that particular presenter (or any programmes, for my money).

[Sir George Cayley]

I absolutely loved the aerial filming which was of fantastic quality. I'm OK with Capt Slow and can forgive him for much in return for some good ol' boys adventures.

The U2 (TR2?) edge of space has up to yesterday been my favourite but now replaced.

I vote Swallow.:ok:

SGC

[lasernigel]

Found it OK. Typical the the French would ruin the programme because of some stupid rules.

Commented on another thread when the guy said this is the control board with the gyros. Board about 3 inches big. Gyros were bigger than that when I worked on them.

[Buster11]

The James May item was just what I'd expect from a medium infested with arts and history graduates given a programme to produce on what was essentially a technology topic. Never did we hear anything of the kit on board controlling what was essentially a normal model aircraft (not a 'toy', please, though that seems to be how May regarded it), with some sort of GPS auto heading system in it. It was certainly not free flight in the sense that the FAI defines it, and I suspect radio control was involved in the Lundy landing.

But most of all it wasn't a record; have a look at the Telegraph's obit of Maynard Hill here: Maynard Hill - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/technology-obituaries/8573491/Maynard-Hill.html). Hill's model aircraft flew the Atlantic in 2003, with a radio-controlled start and landing, but with an autonomous control system for most of the 3020 km from Newfoundland to the west coast of Ireland.

It seems to me that if radio and TV in the UK treated engineering and science with something like the same amount of enthusiasm and reverence that they devote to the endless ramblings of people who get paid handsomely for pretending to be someone else then we'd all be in a far healthier state as a nation.

Rant mode off. Time for a nice lie down...

[longer ron]

3020 km from Newfoundland to the west coast of Ireland.

That is a long glide what altitude did they release the glider from :)

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I thought the 'Swallow' programme was excellent - better than the Spit one where I was jealous that he'd got the Beeb to pay for him to get to fly the real thing.

I very much approve of Mr May - he's a pilot, a motorcycle fanatic, a musician, a real ale fan, and a technology enthusiast. Unlike the other two on Top Gear I'd love to have a pint and a chat with James in the pub.

I was dissapointed that there was little explanation of the on board electronics; things have certainly moved on since I last built an RC glider back in the '70s.

And did you know that the 'filming' helicopter was flown by ex-TV presenter Mike Smith who now runs a helicopter TV news filming business with G-PIXX?

Some nice 'real' aeroplanes in the background of some shots as well. Two Chippys (:ok:), a Stampe, Jungman, Yak, Stearman and a few others.

[5aday]

He frequents the Cross Keys on Blacklion Lane, W6. It's a Fullers pub for whom he advertises their beers -which are made just on the other side of the A4.
Dave M

[Dengue_Dude]

Very droll Beagle, very droll . . .

Happy Christmas

[CoffmanStarter]

Would have been better if they'd done an aero tow behind the Chipmunk :ok:

[The Old Fat One]

Opened in error :E

[longer ron]

:):):):):):):):):):)

[NutLoose]

I enjoyed that, much better than the Spitfire one and up there with the model train one they did... I like his style of presenting, far better than the other two Top Gear muppets, at least he seems more down to earth.

[Sloppy Link]

There was also a DB5 in the background.....niiiice.

[Onceapilot]

Sorry, all those donkeys that work with the loudmouth and produce this type of dumbed-down programme will not get my viewing.
Edited for harshnesshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

[normally right blank]

Many good comments - some harsh even! Good X-mas spirit. Considering it being "Military Aircrew". Seasons Greetings PJ

[monkeytamer]

Commented on another thread when the guy said this is the control board with the gyros. Board about 3 inches big. Gyros were bigger than that when I worked on them. Lasernigel

Mr Laser,
The gyros are probably of the MEMS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_structure_gyroscope) (MicroElectroMechanical Systems) type which you can find in most smart phones. They fall short of military standards but provide a reasonable short term solution.

MT

[Fliegenmong]

A link for anyone outside UK? :confused::)

[Agaricus bisporus]

[QUOTE]All the electronics in the project seemed to come from the diydrones.com community.[/QUOTE

I thought the content, presentation and script came from diy drones too.

Superficial, trivial, juvenile and a total waste of time. imho nothing but a contrived vehicle for an over-indulged presenter to have a good play in helicopters at licence payer's expense, not that this is a precedent on the BBC - the crew indulging in an extended and expensive junket seems to be the main point of an awful lot of TV these days. The shoddy, content free and overly extended programme is just the excuse they use to cover the fun.

James MAy could do this sort of thing so well if it wasn't dumbed down for attention-disorder eight year olds.

0/10

[Nige321]

Ab
Interest declaration - I was involved in the production of the program in a small background role.

Superficial, trivial, juvenile and a total waste of time. Glad you liked it...:rolleyes:

a contrived vehicle for an over-indulged presenter to have a good play in helicopters
Strange, because at no point did JM ever step in one...

It wasn't a science program, it was 'entertainment'. Sorry it didn't fit your idea of that genre. A quick surf around various forums, as well as this one, seems to indicate you might be in a minority...

:ugh:

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

It wasn't a science program, it was 'entertainment'. Sorry it didn't fit your idea of that genre. A quick surf around various forums, as well as this one, seems to indicate you might be in a minority...

He is. One has to take into account that this was prime time TV entertainment. A serious science programme or serious aviation program or serious aeromodelling program (any of which it could have been) might have been great for us enthusiasts, but would have had the mass TV audience switching off in their millions.

It was a skillful balance of 'entertainment' and 'aviation interest'. Something James does very well.

[BEagle]

SSD - precisely!

Nige321, thank you for your contribution to a very entertaining science-based programme.

[sablatnic]

A link for people outside the UK:
NEW James May's Toy Stories Flight Club - Video Dailymotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw66wd_new-james-may-s-toy-stories-flight-club_shortfilms?search_algo=2#.UNtriDX-6jY)

And another link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k41z_ujop4

[Nige321]

Beagle - Thank you, kind words...

While chatting with JM, the conversation inevitably turned to Top Gear.
It would seem he's not that bothered about cars, his passions are motor cycles and aviation. He's really keen on all things flying, hence his desire to do this show.

It might not have come across during the film, but he was very hands on, and really keen to do as much of the model building himself -an awful lot of material, (film and balsa...!) was left on the floor...

Someone mentioned a 'script' - I never saw one, and virtually every piece to camera was done once, with no Autocue, no script, and no prompts, just a genuine interest and enthusiasm for the subject...

Was he enjoying himself? Absolutely...:ok:

[AtomKraft]

Cracking vid.

I've had the pleasure of a real Swallow back in 1980 or thereabouts in the GSA at Detmold.

Lovely aircraft and a cracking roll rate with those big ailerons.:ok:

(sorry that's two- now THREE crackings in one post!)

[BEagle]

Nige321, did the 'scale' team who built JM's first Swallow model take Reynolds No / Scale effect into account?

It was obviously quite difficult to balance the programme so that it included sufficient information to keep anoraks happy, yet not so much that the intellectually challenged 'Strictly Come Dancing Out Of The X Factor Jungle' mental pygmies weren't totally ostracised.....

A pleasure to see a good BBC programme after weeks and weeks of lowest common denominator rubbish.....:uhoh:

[CoffmanStarter]

BEagle ... time to dust of my old copy of Kermode :ok:

[Nige321]

Nige321, did the 'scale' team who built JM's first Swallow model take Reynolds No / Scale effect into account?

The first model was built directly from the original plan, drawn by Tony Slocombe in 1988 - it's 1/4 scale. He'd used the scale wing section, which is, shall we say, draggy...

The Brunel students decided on more efficient NACA wing sections, which actually entailed moving the existing tip section to the root, then using 6412 for the tip. I then did the CAD drawings for the new wing, and laser cut the parts. The CAD gives a perfect blend of sections from root to tip, and I also built in washout in the outer part of the panel.

All the following models used this new wing.
Now if Slingsby had access to computers in the 50s...:8

[longer ron]

Yes the real Swallow was not much of a glide performer,but quite a pretty little thing.
I never did fly one with the ATC as at that time one had to be a C cat to fly them,but some years later I flew one in Africa,I was quite comfy with it as had done quite a bit of open cockpit flying with the ATC.
Anyway the airfield was an old Rhodesian (RATG) Observer school site and flying from the 'wrong' end meant if you had a low cable break then you would have to land in the very rough and crumbled old rwy intersection area.
So I self briefed myself that if I had a low break then I would turn left 20 degrees and land on the old main rwy which was very smooth grass (but unusable because of a large storage building added post war).
Anyway wouldnt you know it - 'Twang' at 200' (we used fencing wire for the winch :)) so I curved round to the left and gradually fed in a tiny amount of airbrake and hey presto a nice arrival...what a great way of giving all the 'Vultures' on the ground a heart attack :ok: (you know the vultures...the whole gliding club waiting for you to fork it up LOL)

Those were the days...got to fly the Skylark 3b shortly after that :)

[BEagle]

Now if Slingsby had access to computers in the 50s... :8

And if only Keil Kraft had had access to la.ser cutters in the '50s. The number of bloodstained wing ribs, courtesy of Messrs. Swann-Morton, which took to the sky in the balsa wood, tissue and dope creations of the day must run into tens of thousands!

Don't tell today's elfn' safety tarts about the unsupervised use of surgical steel scalpel-bladed craft knives, Brtifix 66 cement and cellulose dope which went on back then....:=

[GuilhasXXI]

Is there any link where I can see it ? I´m really curious about this little project

[Molemot]

It wasn't just the construction, either...but the fuel mixes for model diesels would give them palpitations, too! I recall a friendly pharmacist who would sell us the necessary fluids...one year we were stopped by the Police en route from Chemists to our Mixing Laboratory (my chum's conservatory). "What have you got there, lads?" said the Constable. "Two gallons of anaesthetic ether and a quart of amyl nitrate" I replied.
A brief silence followed.
"Er...what are you going to do with that?"

My chum replied "We have a long and difficut operation to perform, Officer!"

Then I explained about model aircraft diesel fuel......

[dragartist]

I enjoyed the programme. good to see the designer of the new wing comments on here. Not suprised about how anal the French were. Oh how times have changed! I built a few keil Craft and Frog Triumph balsa models. Over wound the rubber to get more umph and collapsed the logerons! Yes, lots of cuts and fingers stuck together. How the price of electronics has come down making this autopilot stuff affordable. Almost about to buy a quadcopter with Go Pro 3 having been inspired by the programme. The MoD would pay £60K for same!!

[longer ron]

I had a remembery about why the 'Swallow' was named thus...
From the T53 thread of a couple of years ago and posted by an ex slingsby test pilot (Golf Bravo Whisky)


The Swallow was intended to be called Sparrow but when Slingsbys
general manager John Reussner was flying the prototype at low level along the hill at Sutton Bank for Fred Slingsby to take photographs he finished up suspended in the telephone wires !

This brought forth the comment from Fred Slingsby:

'It's joined the Swallows ready for migration' and the name stuck !

The damaged aircraft was aquired and repaired by John Reussner with an extra metre added to each wing root and an extended rear fuselage.
In this form it was named 'Swift'

Golf Bravo Whisky